Why did Troika make ToEE?

[Dhruin]

The idea was to turn around a D&D module in a short timeframe, presumably for a relatively low development cost - something smaller and cheaper than a Baldur's Gate. I think Atari and Troika both felt there was a market for this (I would agree) - and they jointly decided on a "classic" module...Tim Cain probably made a mistake in choosing that module (and/or not developing it further in terms of story) and Troika was unable to pull it off in the intended time.

 

I think it was a good idea but both parties underestimated how hard it would be and Cain underestimated the importance of a strong narrative.

[Volourn]

"and/or not developing it further in terms of story"

 

That was the problem. TOEE is a fine module. But, the basic pnp verison you buy in stores is purposefully bare like ALL D&D modules. Afterall, they're intended to be used by DMs to place in their campaigns not as is.

 

It says so right in the module books. Did Troika even read that page? LOL :D

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Bloodlines combat is "good" enough not to detract from the rest of the game. Thats about the most positive thing about it. Anyone who holds it up as a poster child for combat in a game (RPG or not) hasnt played enough games.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

TOEE > IWD

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

TOEE = Watching paint dry

[Hurlshort]

ToEE was a pretty well known adventure, so I think they figured it'd be the easiest to market. I don't know much about it, but did they stick pretty close to the P&P madule? Perhaps they got too caught up in the recreation and ignored the fact that story is more important in a single player RPG than a PnP group.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

ToEE was a pretty well known adventure, so I think they figured it'd be the easiest to market.  I don't know much about it, but did they stick pretty close to the P&P madule?  Perhaps they got too caught up in the recreation and ignored the fact that story is more important in a single player RPG than a PnP group.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Part of the problem was sticking too close. Examine any Troika product (only three so it wont take long) something about it will be very good, the other bits will be either average or just awful.

 

They just seemed to fixate on an aspect of the game without having a view of the larger picture. As well as programming some really buggy stuff, but even if you take the bugs out of the picture its still evident.

[Dhruin]

I don't think it was a matter of "fixating" on one aspect. I think they had the creative ability but project and/or business management was a serious issue. They lived hand-to-mouth with their publishers and any development difficulties/delays meant publishers pressuring them - with rushed results.

 

And before Volourn writes that was their own fault - yes, it probably was (leaving aside the argument that publishers shouldn't ship buggy products in the first place). I still think given enough time and resources they could have produced some amazing games - but the market doesn't work that way unless you bring your own financing.

[Gabrielle]

TOEE > IWD

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dreadfully wrong my sweet. IWD rules over TOEE.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I don't think it was a matter of "fixating" on one aspect.  I think they had the creative ability but project and/or business management was a serious issue.  They lived hand-to-mouth with their publishers and any development difficulties/delays meant publishers pressuring them - with rushed results.

 

And before Volourn writes that was their own fault - yes, it probably was (leaving aside the argument that publishers shouldn't ship buggy products in the first place).  I still think given enough time and resources they could have produced some amazing games - but the market doesn't work that way unless you bring your own financing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Can't really say much on Arcanum but it it was badly balanced and the RT combat was a joke.

TOEE they got the D&D combat system almost spot on , but the rest of the game was neglected because of it.

With Bloodlines, the presentation was good, but the combat was weak and the game just ran out of steam (bad pun) towards the end.

 

Now if they could have gotten the balance right , even at 75% on each catagory (assuming that we ignore the bugs) then the games would have been much less flawed.

[Darque]

TOEE > IWD

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dreadfully wrong my sweet. IWD rules over TOEE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No way

 

TOEE had combat that was even better than fallout's

 

IWD just used a rehashed Baldur's Gate system

[Janmanden]

"As I've said before, if you read the lines and between them: any game can be mindless if you play it mindlessly...and apparently you do that a lot, maybe you have a handicap or something?"

1. FDon't blame me for BL's combat ebing boring, simple, and mindless.
   
2. Thanbkfully, it's role-playing is top notch 'cause the combat is mindless.
   
3. There is no (or very little as there are always exceptions) thinking involved.
   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess I should repeat myself. I wasn't fond of BL in the beginning, not at all, but between the bitching I still gave it a chance and actually played it - and it was worth it - all though I kinda miss the hair... You should try to.

1. Blame yourself. It's a matter of style and my style is fun. I pity you.
   
2. I like tactical combat and strategic conquest as well. Fast thinking and combat smarts in a game like BL is better suited. It would have been nice to have some actual combat skills and moves you could work on.
   
3. If you spend a split second or a half day thinking about your next move is up to you. Combat smarts and witty dialogue is a perfect blend. Be as mindless about it as you (dis)like, but it's your loss.
   

[Janmanden]

1. Bloodlines combat is "good" enough not to detract from the rest of the game.
   
2. Thats about the most positive thing about it.
   
3. Anyone who holds it up as a poster child for combat in a game (RPG or not) hasnt played enough games.
   

1. I think BL's combat could easily have been better with some combat moves and actual combat skills (a la critical strike, flurry, power attack, uppercut, dropkick...guess it kinda sucks, hah!), but it's still quite fun as it is and
   
2. thanks to the separation from exp it's even optional (until a certain point of course).
   
3. I do NOT hold BL up as a poster child for combat games and playing more games has nothing to do with it, but taste, style and openness does, imo. There's a dark side to experience that you'll have to repress if you value your freedom, but that in itself doesn't have anything to do with the fun factor or immersiveness of the game, I think. I think bad and mindless, but also good and mindless, games exist and I have even played some of them, but BL is not one of them, far from it.
   

[Volourn]

"I guess I should repeat myself. I wasn't fond of BL in the beginning, not at all, but between the bitching I still gave it a chance and actually played it - and it was worth it - all though I kinda miss the hair... You should try to. "

 

Hilarious. I played the game to the end, and beat it. I enjoyed the game, and it was fun overall; but the combat was dreadful. Yet you try to say I didn't give it a achance.

 

The combat is easy and requires no thinking. I'm not going to take the blame here. Afterall, I didn't make the game.

 

I guess I should take credit for making NWN, FO, Madden fun too right?

 

R00fles! :D

[CoM_Solaufein]

TOEE > IWD

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dreadfully wrong my sweet. IWD rules over TOEE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No way

 

TOEE had combat that was even better than fallout's

 

IWD just used a rehashed Baldur's Gate system

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You insulted the mighty Fallout with that slanderous remark.

[Baley]

No, my dear Revanian fanatic, that comment is indubitably correct.

[Llyranor]

If only NWN2 would have TOEE's combat system

[mkreku]

If only NWN2 would have TOEE's combat system

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm so incredibly glad it doesn't! Can you spell slow-paced.. S.L.O.O.O.O.O.W or something.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

If only NWN2 would have TOEE's combat system

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Congratulations. You just topped watching paint dry

[Gromnir]

actually, toee worked to troika strengths. after arcanum, the troikanauts realized that nobody currently on the payroll could create interesting characters or write compelling dialogues... so they made a game wherein they believed that such things as character & story development would be a tertiary concern.

 

troika had 'nuff technical guys to build a slightly clunky engine that would encompass much of the minutiae of d&d rules, but they obviously didn't have anybody creative 'nuff to makes up stories or characters, so they remade and old d&d module. they didn't have to come up with new characters or stories and they didn't have to invent a world. license and pre-existing story were actually a good way to go for troika.

 

'course the troikanauts were forgetting that those old d&d modules were not finished products. even the most detailed tsr module required dm input to be breathing life into the adventure. oops.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Janmanden]

"I guess I should repeat myself. I wasn't fond of BL in the beginning, not at all, but between the bitching I still gave it a chance and actually played it - and it was worth it - all though I kinda miss the hair... You should try to. "

1. Hilarious. 
   1. 
      
   2. I played the game to the end, and beat it. I enjoyed the game, and it was fun overall; but the combat was dreadful.
      
   3. Yet you try to say I didn't give it a achance.
      

[*] . . .

1. The combat is easy and requires no thinking.
   
2. I'm not going to take the blame here.
   
3. Afterall, I didn't make the game.
   

 

[*] I guess I should take credit for making NWN, FO, Madden fun too right?

 

[*] R00fles! :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. I wonder if that is true based on what you say:

   [*] . . .

   1. I can't really comment about your opinion about this, since this dialogue tree branches from #1.a.
      
   2. Blame yourself for not enjoying it or forget about it. I just wish I could share the fun with you, but fine, be that way. *grumbles something about kids with blasters*
      
   3. You haven't given me any reason to think that you would be able to create anything, except maybe how you'd turn a fun game into a mindless one, but you can keep that info for yourself and know that I pity you for it. :D
      

   [*] I hope you enjoyed FO and the humor appealed to you and you gave credit for it, as I did, literally... I enjoyed and replayed NWN for awhile with different classes, but I didn't find it particularly fun, because it isn't. And Madden I don't give a **** about at all. I am a bit curious however: are you being obstinate about this on purpose?

   [*] Esne tibi forte magna feles fulva et planissima? *

   ________

   *) Are you by any chance the owner of a big yellowish very flat cat?

    

   Edit: Cripes... those damn spaces if they really were the final frontier...

You played it thru only ONCE without trying other clans?
You do know that it's very different from clan to clan, right?

Edited December 18, 2005 by Janmanden

[Shadowstrider]

"I guess I should repeat myself. I wasn't fond of BL in the beginning, not at all, but between the bitching I still gave it a chance and actually played it - and it was worth it - all though I kinda miss the hair... You should try to. "

1. Hilarious. 
   1. 
      
   2. I played the game to the end, and beat it. I enjoyed the game, and it was fun overall; but the combat was dreadful.
      
   3. Yet you try to say I didn't give it a achance.
      

[*] . . .

1. The combat is easy and requires no thinking.
   
2. I'm not going to take the blame here.
   
3. Afterall, I didn't make the game.
   

 

[*] I guess I should take credit for making NWN, FO, Madden fun too right?

 

[*] R00fles! :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. I wonder if that is true based on what you say:

   [*]

   1. 
      . . .
      
   2. I can't really comment about your opinion about this, since this dialogue tree branches from #1.a.
      
   3. Blame yourself for not enjoying it or forget about it. I just wish I could share the fun with you, but fine, be that way. *grumbles something about kids with blasters*
      
   4. You haven't given me any reason to think that you would be able to create anything, except maybe how you'd turn a fun game into a mindless one, but you can keep that info for yourself and know that I pity you for it. :D
      

   [*] I hope you enjoyed FO and the humor appealed to you and you gave credit for it, as I did, literally... I enjoyed and replayed NWN for awhile with different classes, but I didn't find it particularly fun, because it isn't. And Madden I don't give a **** about at all. I am a bit curious however: are you being retarded about this on purpose?

    

   [*] Esne tibi forte magna feles fulva et planissima? *

   ________

   *) Are you by any chance the owner of a big yellowish very flat cat?

   <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

    

   I'll give you points for the latin and the post organization, but I'm afraid I must take just as many away for calling him retarded.

    

   Keep it civil.

You played it thru only ONCE without trying other clans?
You do know that it's very different from clan to clan, right?

[Janmanden]

I need to get that framed. (w00t)

1. I'll give you points for the latin and the post organization,
   
2. but I'm afraid
   
3. I must take just as many away for calling him retarded.
   
4. Keep it civil.
   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. Thanks...
   
2. Don't be afraid, you are powerful moderator.
   
3. I guess I could have said "are you being obstinate about this on purpose?" instead. fixed.
   
4. Civil? Are you psychic? - I'm just wearing a robe here... Ok, I'll get dressed.
   

[Gabrielle]

TOEE > IWD

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dreadfully wrong my sweet. IWD rules over TOEE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No way

 

TOEE had combat that was even better than fallout's

 

IWD just used a rehashed Baldur's Gate system

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

LOL That's funny.

[Darque]

But still true

[Gabrielle]

No. False. Nice try though, thanks for playing.