Gaming industry insertion loophole

[TentamusDarkblade]

Chu's answer is most dead on. If you want people to hear your ideas, get in the industry. Start in the "mailroom" of QA and work your way up. Find an internship and jump into it with 110% effort. Once you're in, you'll find it's easier to both frame your ideas so that people will buy into them and you'll be closer to having the access you need to talk to the people who get projects greenlighted.

 

Another thing i'd recommend is to take your ground shaking idea and put it in a pitch doc. Like was said, everyone and their mother has an idea. What you'll need to do is put that idea down and make it tangible.

 

Taking the time to learn how to write a full and comprehensive pitch doc shows that you not only can come up with simply stunning ideas, but that you can translate those ideas into something that artists, engineers, and other designers can pick up and understand. I cannot over-state how important that is. Your idea is *nothing* if you can't put it on paper in a form that anyone picking it up can grasp.

 

after all that, good luck. the games industry is alot of fun once you're in and there is going to always be a demand for folks who can sell their ideas.

 

EDIT: Ps Laozi, i miss your Monarch icon

Edited December 21, 2005 by TentamusDarkblade

[Child of Flame]

What type of paper am I looking at accquiring to shop myself efficiently to game development companies?

 

Could any of the paper bits be applied to jobs at other places while I accquire more paper?

 

How hard will it be to whore myself out to the game industry (work hours aside) after I accquire the paper bits?

 

I would probably be wanting to go into design rather than programming, but I suppose my brain could be applied to both.

 

Right now I've enrolled in a semester of college courses with a Psychology major intended, but that was only because I really hadn't made my mind up about anything yet, and I figured that things learned in such courses could be applied to most any job (how people work).

 

Please to be answering my questions, paper bits needed, money is forthcoming.

[Shadowstrider]

I think part of the problem with a lot of people, and possibly the original poster, is that more often than not...too many people are looking for that "free ride".  I'm not saying that these people are good/bad writers, artists, programmers, etc, one way or the other.

 

But honestly, this industry is made up of a lot of people who have busted their butts for years to get into it and to do what they/we do every day.  I work with people every day who couldn't afford to go to college, but some how found a way...and here they are today, doing what they love.

 

The bottom line is that those who truly have the desire and passion to do this every day for a living will find a way.  Those who "think" they do or just like to "talk" about it...probably won't.  It's reality.

 

One thing is for certain, nobody is going to hand anybody a free opportunity in this industry.  You need to be able to prove yourself and prove your skillz.  :cool:

 

Take BioWare's module making contest for example.  Yes, while it's a great opportunity, you better believe they'll be interviewing the heck out of those that make the "first cut".  And even then, I wouldn't be surprised to see them end up hiring maybe a handfull to maybe even only one or two at most. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

100%.

[Ewen Brown]

what do you have that could possibly beat the idea of putting the action of a biathlon into a game

[astr0creep]

I've been working in the industry for years. I've worked for Ubisoft, Atari, Bioware, Lucasarts, Jowood and a few others.

 

What I can tell you is that it is far from a walk in the park.

 

Long hours, low pay, no benefits, forget your friends and any girlfriend/boyfriend or even your familly.

 

This job will consume you like the fires of hell.

 

Until you get out of QA, then it's more like Hell's lobby. Still hot, but not ''melt your skin'' hot.

 

Have you ever wanted to work 10-12 hours a day, 7 days a week for two years? Welcome to QA!

 

If you can get through that initial ''bottom of the barrel'' stage (pun intended) , an essential part I think to making it in the industry, you are ready for game dev.

[Joseph Bulock]

I've been working in the industry for years. I've worked for Ubisoft, Atari, Bioware, Lucasarts, Jowood and a few others.

 

What I can tell you is that it is far from a walk in the park.

 

Long hours, low pay, no benefits, forget your friends and any girlfriend/boyfriend or even your familly.

 

This job will consume you like the fires of hell.

 

Until you get out of QA, then it's more like Hell's lobby. Still hot, but not ''melt your skin'' hot.

 

Have you ever wanted to work 10-12 hours a day, 7 days a week for two years? Welcome to QA!

 

If you can get through that initial ''bottom of the barrel'' stage (pun intended) , an essential part I think to making it in the industry, you are ready for game dev.

 

 

While I agree that some QA jobs are like this, I don't think it has to be this way. It really depends on the company. In my experience, the larger the company, the worse treatment for the QA. I've worked at a large publisher, and it was just as you say. However, working with a much smaller publisher was very relaxed, and they tried to take decent care of us.

 

Obsidian, of course, takes the cake. They treat their testers like real people, and respect QA as vital to the project. Definitely the best tester job I've ever had/heard of.

[Magena]

All of the game development companies websites I have checked for job listings have that one line: "4 year degree required". 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you think you qualify other than that, try for the position. Using the comment of a 4 year degree is often just something to help limit the number of people the companies have to sort through. But depending on the company, that isn't a big issue.

 

Personality tends to actually be more likely to get you a job than a degree. Meaning that the personality fits in with the rest of the company. :D

[astr0creep]

Bioware was also a very good experience for me as with many other people I'm sure. I would work again for them in a New York minute (was a contract job, work was done, I went on with my life... sniff).

 

Generally speaking though, a tester's life is made very hard by the employer. You feel like an expandable number, no matter how good you are at finding and describing bugs.

 

And you are right, the bigger the company, the worse are the working conditions.

 

What I'm trying to say is that if anyone wishes to enter this business through QA, either be very patient and tough as nails or be very careful where you apply.

[Magena]

Generally speaking though, a tester's life is made very hard by the employer. You feel like an expandable number, no matter how good you are at finding and describing bugs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that many companies don't schedule enough time for QA, and many people who come out of college can't program correctely (this isn't against any of the people at the gaming companies that we all love, but from personal experience in school and from hearing hubby discsuss the wonderful programming that he sees and needs to fix).

 

Many of us have also heard Josh go on about how one error gets fixed and many many others crop up...

 

 

I've also heard some QA guys say that they live in feast or famine ways. They are either given a lot with a short amount of time to test in (hence long hours) or they are twiddling their thumbs and searching the net for some new info on the industry.

Edited January 13, 2006 by Magena

[Mossa TheGreat]

I have great ideas for games.  I've shared them with people and have gotten nothing but positive responses.  Even my fianc

[Hurlshort]

Mossa, that's great to hear. Keep educating yourself and you'll have a great leg up on people down the road. Also stay in school, because that will open doors for you.

 

A college degree isn't necessary to get a job and do it well, but it shows an employer that you know how to follow through and complete a long term task. It shows dedication and determination.

[Magena]

A college degree isn't necessary to get a job and do it well, but it shows an employer that you know how to follow through and complete a long term task.  It shows dedication and determination.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

or that you know how to party, depending on what school you went to.

 

 

The sad thing is that more and more employeers are looking for that little piece of paper, which often has nothing to do with the type of job someone is performing.

[Mossa TheGreat]

Hey thanks for the back up!

Please understand me guys, I sure am going to study in college. Just not 3D stuff, perhaps Programming or HardWare making. You see I personaly love games, and the idea of making them, and I have many idea's for them, plus I believe I have a very good sense in Philosofy, but my English skills needs a good clean up, and upgrading thats for sure... Believe it or not, I do have 3 languages to hold control on plus German... Good Luck To Me From Me!

 

Now, just to clearlify why I arent going to study 3D'ing and its arts, thats because I am little worried if it will stop wroking or such, maybe the hall industry fall down to the ground one day... You never know... But I personaly doesnt believe that, but I do not wish to take the chance... After all its nearly all the same, and a home education is as good as a school one... Its how I hard work for it!

 

Thank you... Have Fun! :D

[Hurlshort]

A college degree isn't necessary to get a job and do it well, but it shows an employer that you know how to follow through and complete a long term task.  It shows dedication and determination.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

or that you know how to party, depending on what school you went to.

 

 

The sad thing is that more and more employeers are looking for that little piece of paper, which often has nothing to do with the type of job someone is performing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Partying doesn't put you through school. I know a pretty large chunk of guys I went to school with that never finished because they were too busy partying. The ones who finished had to set aside their partying ways and focus on the last two years. College is not a cakewalk.

 

You are correct that employers look for that piece of paper. I will reiterate that it shows an ability to focus on a long term task. It isn't necessarily about the education that you recieved, because many companies expect to train their employees in their own techniques. A college degree shows that you are able to learn.

[alanschu]

A college degree isn't necessary to get a job and do it well, but it shows an employer that you know how to follow through and complete a long term task.  It shows dedication and determination.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

or that you know how to party, depending on what school you went to.

 

 

The sad thing is that more and more employeers are looking for that little piece of paper, which often has nothing to do with the type of job someone is performing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That's because it shows dedication and determination

 

It's tough to get that piece of paper if you spend all your college years partying. I can speak from experience.

[Azarkon]

College is easy. Graduate school at a prestigious institution? Now, that's hard. Fortunately, very few positions in the game industry require a masters or a Ph. D. At least, not yet.

[Brian Lawson]

Graduate school at a prestigious institution? Now, that's hard. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Says who?? Half those places hand them out to people who don't necessarily deserve them either.

 

Here's a good quote I once read...

 

 

"The least of learning is done in the classrooms."

 

-Thomas Merton (1915 - 1968)

[Jorian Drake]

Graduate school at a prestigious institution? Now, that's hard. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Says who?? Half those places hand them out to people who don't necessarily deserve them either.

 

Here's a good quote I once read...

 

 

"The least of learning is done in the classrooms."

 

-Thomas Merton (1915 - 1968)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't know how true that is :D

 

[Hurlshort]

Since reading comprehension seems to be a problem in this thread, I will restate this.

 

Obtaining a college degree shows dedication and determination.

 

It doesn't mean you've learned particular skills for an industry. It just means you are capable of doing so because you have dedication and determination. Graduate school is also always going to depend on your major, the faculty, and what you choose for a thesis. It might be an easy subject, but it still will require dedication and determination. It takes years to complete, just like a major game.

Edited February 7, 2006 by Hurlshot

[Shadowstrider]

Not how it works. A degree shows that you have met the standards set by the school in a field of study. People infer a dedication and determination associated to the subject of your degree, not in general.

 

If everyone followed your line of thinking (thank god they don't), having a degree in chemistry would make them excellent programmers. Since, as you know, "It takes years to complete, just like a major game." By your logic, it doesn't matter what your degree is, they might as well hand out "dedication and determination" awards, rather than degrees.

[Diamond]

It depends on the field. Programmers will be required to have a specific degree much more often than game designers today, because programming is an established discipline, game design is relatively new.

[Hurlshort]

I agree entirely with Diamond. Game design is a young industry, so you have plenty of people involved with it without a formal education background. I imagine as it grows, a dgree will become more important.

 

Now Shadowstrider made some interesting inferences, but I'll try and explain my point again. Let me start by saying the most valuable thing for any potential employer is real experience. But when you are 22, that experience is hard to come by. A 22 year old with ANY degree will look better than a 22 year old with no experience.

 

Clearly, having a relevant degree is important, but I know plenty of people who are not using their degrees. They get in the door with them, and then they learn an entirely new skillset.

[Joseph Bulock]

Plenty of programmers in the industry do not have programming degrees, and plenty do. The one thing that Hurl shot has right is that a 22 year old with no experience won't get a programming job. Will a degree make much of difference? Nope. If the programmer happened to spend some time actually learning programming while in school (which is barely required to graduate from plenty of programming degree programs) and can put together some clean, efficient code, that will make a difference.

 

I can't think of a single employee here at Obsidian that got their job here by showing a degree. I can however name tons of people that came in here without one, but great demos, and tons of experience (not to mention great attitudes and amazing work ethic) and are of course, our coworkers.

 

In my experience, degrees aren't worth much of anything in the game industry. The serve as water cooler talk. What gets you in the door is whatever you teach yourself, either in school, working on mods, or through self education.

[Shadowstrider]

A college degree gets your foot in the door. Thats it, really. If anyone actually thought a degree was a hole-in-one, get a job now thing, they're sadly mistaken.

[Azarkon]

Says who??  Half those places hand them out to people who don't necessarily deserve them either. 

 

Here's a good quote I once read...

 

 

"The least of learning is done in the classrooms."

 

    -Thomas Merton (1915 - 1968)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not graduate degrees. Well, not in the areas we're talking about (computer science & IT I assume?) To get into a typical graduate program at, say, Stanford or MIT, you need to be pretty much top of the field. They accept ~30-40 people a semester out of an application pool of the best graduates out of college. I've not met a single graduate of such universities that did not work their asses off, so it's likely deserved :D

 

Of course, the same cannot be said for, say, political science which you can get just by being the son of a former president "

 

In my experience, degrees aren't worth much of anything in the game industry. The serve as water cooler talk. What gets you in the door is whatever you teach yourself, either in school, working on mods, or through self education.

 

In my experience this is true as well. Game development is not rocket science - it's art and alot of grunt work. Universities do not teach you programming. Art is learned at trade schools (or independently). Since most game development teams primarily consist of a dozen programmers and several dozens of artists / designers, it's quite obvious a degree isn't going to help much.

 

However, the same argument was made for software developers in general back in the day, and a decade later academics are suddenly important. While I doubt that game development will ever get to this stage (because it remains a primarily artistic, rather than scientific, discipline), there is clearly a need: as technology evolves and the need for sophistication increases, research & development might end up a pretty big part of future companies. You can make games today without a inkling of scientific knowledge, but the games you make are fundamentally limited by the technology you employ. Game development is inevitably tied to technological progress, as the genre itself evolves in parallel: and so the tech-savvy will be the ones to make the next big jump, especially with regards to such important areas as immersion (graphics, sounds, voice synthesis, etc.) and AI.

 

And then there are the game development schools... The discipline is young enough that a degree in game development is not, as of yet, important - because the principles of the trade have not yet solidified as, say, film techniques. But judging by the advancement of a film school degree these days, I can say with confidence that the time is not far off when such specialized education would give you the edge. After all, what these trade schools typically provide is not so much formal education as a disciplined, creative environment in which you could develop your demos and your portfolios. Self-education is nice and all, but I'm pretty confident (after seeing so many mod groups crash and burn) that working with others and under the guidance of experienced developers is far more efficient.

Edited February 9, 2006 by Azarkon