The end is the beginning is the end.

[Hell Kitty]

by PC gamers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There are lots of criticisms that PC gamers make about console gamers and consoles, most of which I think are nonsense. My argument is that "buying a console supports the graphics-first design philosphy" is one such nonsensical anti-console criticism.

 

Buying a new console is no more supporting the "graphics-first" design philosphy than buying a new video card. It doesn't matter what console or video card makers think the future of videogames, what matters is what the consumer thinks, and a consumer who thinks graphics come first will favour the PC over the console.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Classic PC vs consoles.

 

All I'll say is I stick to pc gaming since buying games on multiple platforms cost money. Thats what I can afford to play is just pc.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

and a consumer who thinks graphics come first will favour the PC over the console.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not unless they have lots and lots of cash. It's simply more cost effective for high quality console graphics than high quality PC graphics.

 

Plus you have to wonder if it's worth forking out all that money these days when your only getting a handful of games a year of note.

[Drakron]

PC is always first in graphic whoring department, being "sponsored" by the main the main graphic card manufactures.

 

Consoles on the other hand are not, they have only one hardware and only way to improve graphics is work with is avaible for then, the fact there is a progress in graphics is more due to then playing around until they get results.

 

PC gaming does not do that, its simply easier to roll in with Nvidia and ATI latest card and be done with it.

 

The reason consoles risen is because people got fed up with spending the same amount of money they could be used to buy a console every year to "update" their computer, these days we start to see 6 months computer updates that cost the same as buying a XBox ... its cheaper to buy a Xbox 360 that Nvidia or ATI latest card.

[Commissar]

They play to different strengths. The console market will inevitably outsell the PC market simply because there's more demand. There's more demand because consoles are accessible to more people. Console gaming has, by and large, garnered mainstream acceptance, whereas PC gaming is still considered rather nerdly.

 

If it's a sports game, I want a console. A platformer, I obviously want a console. Just about everything else, though, I'd prefer a PC. You can't have a sim on a console, but on the other hand, no one's making sims anymore. A mouse and keyboard setup is my preference for a shooter. I can't stand console RPGs, mostly because they're dumbed-down drek. It's undeniable that, at the moment, PCs offer more depth, while consoles offer more variety. Graphics, in my opinion, is a null issue, since both contenders keep up in their own way.

 

The death of PC gaming? I don't know. Isn't Obsidian's Project New Jersey a console game? Even my dogs at Creative Assembly caved in, following up Rome: Total War with some console action crap. I think we'll be seeing more and more developers focusing on both platforms, with the eventual intention of making a full move to consoles.

[Diamond]

PC is always first in graphic whoring department, being "sponsored" by the main the main graphic card manufactures.

All PC games I can recall always rely on more than graphics.

E.g. NWN, PST, GTA2 (2D!).

 

Consoles on the other hand are not, they have only one hardware and only way to improve graphics is work with is avaible for then, the fact there is a progress in graphics is more due to then playing around until they get results.

 

PC gaming does not do that, its simply easier to roll in with Nvidia and ATI latest card and be done with it.

If it was the case, PC game developers would be out of business. You underestimate game devs, they do take into account that not everyone can afford top latest cards (example would be NWN2, which upon release will run on computers with today's videocards).

[Haitoku]

All PC games I can recall always rely on more than graphics. huh.gif

E.g. NWN, PST, GTA2 (2D!).

 

 

Too few... Nuff' said.

 

How many games this year have not been simply about showing the latest graphic engine?

 

Half Life 2, Doom 3, Quake 4, FEAR, Call of Duty 2, Battlefield 2...

 

Sure, in the mist of all that we have some pretty cool games like Indigo Prophecy (which still really needs good graphics to pull of what it did) and Civilization IV. But those are just too few.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

No where near enough to warrant

[Lord Tingeling]

End of PC games?

Simply no

 

Consoles are crap and maybe this will spell the end of them. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, well, thinking rationally is overrated, anyway.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Well two of the 360 reviews are in at Eurogamer.

 

PGR got 8/10

Kameo got 5/10

 

Reviewer prefered Mario Kart DS to PGR

[Diamond]

Too few... Nuff' said.

I just named the games I could recall off the top of my head.

Every decent game is focused on several gameplay features, not just graphics, even Doom 3 and Half Life 2. A game "just with graphics" is a tech-demo. I played HL2, because I liked HL1, not because it has a brand new graphics engine.

[Surreptishus]

No where near enough to warrant

[Lord Tingeling]

I knew that Rare haven't been in tip-top shape lately, but 5/10? Hah.

[Drakron]

All PC games I can recall always rely on more than graphics.

E.g. NWN, PST, GTA2 (2D!).

 

NwN was a online game and so they could not really push the graphics and I remenber the outcry over how Nvidia card had a water effect that ATI cards could not (at the time) produce.

 

PS:T sold crap.

 

GTA series make it with GTA III in consoles, before it was not a big name and certainly not the massive mover it became after being in consoles.

 

I could add WC IV that a great game despite using WC III modified engine but it economical failed.

 

If it was the case, PC game developers would be out of business. You underestimate game devs, they do take into account that not everyone can afford top latest cards (example would be NWN2, which upon release will run on computers with today's videocards).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wrong, PC games run on the "gaming machines" fanatics ... they are a niche market due to the high price of having a "gaming rig".

 

NwN 2 lack of "graphic whoring" is because its a online game and so there are limits of how far can it push processing power because such power is needed to be connected.

[alanschu]

My argument is that "buying a console supports the graphics-first design philosphy" is one such nonsensical anti-console criticism.

 

Again, I'm talking about where the manufacturers of said consoles have stated where they want their consoles to go.

 

Yes there's stupid people out there that buy the $500 brand new video card. But they're also the same type of people that go out and buy the HDTV just for their XBOX. They are also in a rather large minority when it comes to dealing with the entire PC gamer population (talking from my experiences selling the cards, in addition to discussions with the suppliers about fast moving cards). Their numbers are even LESS when considering the console gamer population. Odo, they have less influence.

 

Graphics is becoming way too much of a focus all around, and I find the statements made by console manufacturers about focusing on graphics to also be worrisome. It's not anti-console perse. I understand the dominance that the console market has and every generation I see an increasing focus on graphics. Specifically when the Microsoft Keynote at the GDC focused so much on photorealism and the HD era. Teams consisting of hundreds of people skyrocketting development costs and curtailing innovation.

 

Yes, it is a problem with the PC and those people that buy the high end video card every time don't help the situation. But now the console people are so heavily stressing it that I see it as major problem for the video game industry as a whole.

 

 

NwN 2 lack of "graphic whoring" is because its a online game and so there are limits of how far can it push processing power because such power is needed to be connected.

 

LOL. That would sure explain those MP games like Battlefield 2, Doom 3, Half-Life 2. If you were to have at least said "because the possibility of having a ton of graphic assets on the screen" then I'd give you a bit more credibility. I'd also wager that all 3 of those games I mentioned will be played online much more the NwN 2. I imagine it will probably go the way as NWN 1, and be overwhelmingly a single player game before it's a multiplayer game.

Edited November 22, 2005 by alanschu

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Not that I disagree but the better graphics get the less room for improvement there is.

Edited November 22, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Dhruin]

Just for reference, the last sales by platform breakdown I have (2003) has the PC second only to the PS2, with the Xbox third and the Gamecube a long way last (not including handhelds or hardware sales). Further, those sales figures don't count online sales...anyone want to add up just World of Warcraft?

 

I accept those figures are changing but the PC isn't dead as a gaming platform. Taken as a single platform and not every single separate console vs PC, it's still in there.

[Volourn]

"PC RPG fans, aka Fallout or PS:T"

 

For every FO or PST there are tens of POR2s, and DDs.

 

The good PC games is much less the percentage of PC games than quality console games.

 

In essence, I am more likely to find a good quality, and fun game on a console than to find one on PC.

 

And, PC games on the whole are not deep. Leisuresuit Larry everyone? Dungeon Seige anyone?

[Darque]

a consumer who thinks graphics come first will favour the PC over the console.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, they'll buy an Xbox.

[Krookie]

a consumer who thinks graphics come first will favour the PC over the console.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, they'll buy an Xbox.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hit the nail on the head there, Darque.

[Darque]

I may hate the Xbox, but I have to give it it's due

[metadigital]

I don't think PC gaming is anywhere near death, however...

 

Boutique stores like EB and Gamestop are no longer reliable source for PC games.  They've gone the way of Best Buy and completely forgotten thier PC roots.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The PC game is not meant to be sold and re-sold; i.e. there *should* be no second hand market for PC games, which I think has a major impact on the gaming market. If I can buy a game and then sell it after I finish it for a quarter of what I paid, then I get an effective 25% discount on the next game, which is a good incentive to buy a console. (Except for those obsessive-compulsives like me who want to keep all the games they like.)

 

Perhaps the RPG example may shed some light onto the current state of the dynamic PC market.

...This has been the year when the massively multiplayer role-player truly crossed over. It has left the singleplayer game in a particularly perilous position, with 12 months of disapointments and consistent underachievement. For example, Vampire The Masquesrade: Bloodlines and Knights of the Old Republic 2 were released in a particularly shoddy state. The best example of the genre, Dungeon Seige II, is so streamlined that it's barely an RPG at all. The stage is set for Oblivion, then, to remind us exactly why the singleplayer RPG is still essential in the modern age.

...

[Cut: lots of interesting and sobering assessments of both the quality of the RPG design and the quality of the product development process.]

PC Format, December 2005, Issue 181, pp48-51 (This excerpt from p48).

 

And another comment, further on in the same issue:

Sid Meier's Civilization IV

As David Essex once said, "Can't you just see it? Civilisation starting all over again ..."

Nintendo has Mario, the Playstation has Tomb Raider and the PC has Civilization. It's a platform mascot, the one title that keeps coming back again and again in subtly different forms, yet retains its essential Civilization-ness, even 14 years after it first appeared.

...

Issue 181, p86

 

Personally, my television is strictly for passive consumption: I like to sit back and critically analyze any media purveyed in front of me in the comfort of my sofa; for real interactive entertainment I have built a stupendous office space in which I may use the latest kit to manipulate the internets and any number of games and toys.

[metadigital]

a consumer who thinks  simplicity come first will favour the ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... they'll buy an X Idiot-box.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fix'd.

[Gabrielle]

I live in an area full of idiots. They waited in line at the stores today, before they opened, to buy this X-box 360 and they all sold out in an hours time. Some people got mad because the store sold out. Stupid people.

 

 

Little kids scream "I want my console, NOW!!!!! "

Edited November 22, 2005 by Gabrielle

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"Oh, you sold out? FANTASTIC!"