Jade Empire Bombed

[Child of Flame]

[EnderAndrew]

When has Eru ever been malicious?

 

I've seen Nurbs throw hate epithets around, so I'm really wondering about the source here.

[J.E. Sawyer]

More control, no having to pay for licenses, and so on. And, 500k sales is not 'bad sales'.

In my opinion, any number of units at any price constitutes "bad sales" if it fails to make a profit. God of War sold decently, but given the costs of development, marketing, and distribution, I and many other developers with whom I have spoken are skeptical that it has broken even, much less become profitable.

 

The Bard's Tale sold abysmally, but apparently it made a small, tidy profit. The development costs were very low and the sell-in was enough to make InXile some money.

 

I don't know the exact figures of Jade Empire's development, marketing, and distribution costs, but the sum is probably pretty high. I don't know if 500,000 units makes the title profitable.

 

BG has sold 2 million copies in nearing 10 years of existence. D&D has  millions of players. I think its a safe bet that the majority of BG fans have also played pnp D&D fans. Of cours,e there are those liek yourself who didn't play D&D. That's fine. That doesn't mean the typical BG player isn't a D&D player.

I don't know if that's necessarily true. The majority of BG players I have met are not pen and paper role-players and frequently say that they don't play any tabletop games.

[Deraldin]

BG has sold 2 million copies in nearing 10 years of existence. D&D has  millions of players. I think its a safe bet that the majority of BG fans have also played pnp D&D fans. Of cours,e there are those liek yourself who didn't play D&D. That's fine. That doesn't mean the typical BG player isn't a D&D player.

I don't know if that's necessarily true. The majority of BG players I have met are not pen and paper role-players and frequently say that they don't play any tabletop games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hadn't had a chance to play PnP until almost 8 years after I first played BG.

[EnderAndrew]

I played D&D for many years, but I hadn't heard of the Baldur's Gate area because I wasn't into the Forgettable Realms.

[Darque]

Maybe this is a cue for game developers to quit trying to constantly "push the envelope" and instead just make solid games

[Deraldin]

I remember going into the game store looking for something that wasn't an RTS. I wanted to try something new and one of my cousins has introduced me to RPG's a number of years earlier so I checked out the RPG's. The clerk tried to get me to buy a Final Fantasy game and he bugged me about it after I had already told him that I had found something I wanted. I passed over both Fallout and Torment to buy BG. I remember not liking Torment because the box art was kinda creepy and Fallout had the double hurdle of being on the top shelf and having guns in it. I was only 10 at the time so being on the top shelf was a definate no for purchasing from me. "

[EnderAndrew]

I think Wil Wright is on to something. We sell games at largely the same price (with inflation factored in) for years, yet the budgets on games are growing exponentially. Art assets and staff on games keep swelling.

 

Something has to give. I don't think the entire industry will turn to sandbox games, but with Spore, he is on to something. Community created content can supplement if not replace a large chunk of what would otherwise be professionally created content.

 

Futhermore, a game that can create content on the fly (ahem, Diablo) suddenly creates all this replay value.

[Darque]

You're right, soemthing has to give... game creators need to quit doing the "try something new" thing all the time.

 

It just doesn't seem to work with any consistancy.

[Gromnir]

allegorical:

 

go to some of the forums for nwn persistent worlds... ask the older fans (folks in their late 20s and 30s) 'bout bg. is a unusual number of folks that had not played d&d for years... had not played since they were teens. bg is the game that resurrected their interest in d&d... though not necessarily interest in pnp.

 

personally, we thought bg were an ok game, but not the supergroovykewl game that many folks seem to think it is

[EnderAndrew]

You don't like trying new things?

 

I recall when Ultima VI came out, and I had just played and loved Ultima IV and V. Ultima VI was mouse-based, and I hated the interface. Instead of a quick few keystrokes, I was dragging and dropping. Inventory was a real pain. But once I got used to it, I ended up loving that game as well. The interface became so popular, they used it for Martian Dreams and Savage Empire as well. There is also an Ultima VI online game using that interface today.

 

Then Ultima VII came out, and suddenly the whole game was controlled via the mouse. A whole new camera angle and interface threw me for a loop. For the first ten minutes I hated it. I loved my keyboard. Why did they have to ruin the classic Ultima games I loved.

 

In the end, I think Ultima VII was brilliant, and I came to love the interface.

[Darque]

Ender, you seem to be talking about the system itself.

 

I'm talking more in the visual/eye candy depeartment.

 

It's all about BIGGER graphics BETTER graphics SPARKLY graphics 3000000000 COLOR PSYCHODELIC graphics.

 

I say bah... this focus on eye candy seems to be a curse.

[Plano Skywalker]

Thats a strange statement coming from someone who worships at the alter of kotor games

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh, it works alright, especially in Star Wars. I'm just not sure they really needed to do that in the first installment of JE. Does seem to be something of a copout.

[EnderAndrew]

Ender, you seem to be talking about the system itself.

 

I'm talking more in the visual/eye candy depeartment.

 

It's all about BIGGER graphics BETTER graphics SPARKLY graphics 3000000000 COLOR PSYCHODELIC graphics.

 

I say bah... this focus on eye candy seems to be a curse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it is a necessity. Games that look outdated are far less likely to sell. We can't blame developers when that is the decision of consumers.

 

I also believe that good graphics do not exclude good gameplay, or a good story.

 

Just because you are spending money on art resources doesn't mean the writers are forced to write bad dialogue.

[Darque]

I think it is a necessity.  Games that look outdated are far less likely to sell.  We can't blame developers when that is the decision of consumers.

 

Who do you blame more, the addict or the pusher?

 

I also believe that good graphics do not exclude good gameplay, or a good story.

 

Of course they don't, but you only have so much money to work with.. and most of it seems to go toward the visual assets.

[metadigital]

I also believe that good graphics do not exclude good gameplay, or a good story.

Of course they don't, but you only have so much money to work with.. and most of it seems to go toward the visual assets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep, this tyranny of visual improvement is a factor of the marketing suits, not the developers, and as such should be discouraged.

 

I'm all for great graphics, but I'll happily play Deus Ex again and again, whereas the sequel just doesn't have it, despite being graphically superior.

[roshan]

I think Wil Wright is on to something.  We sell games at largely the same price (with inflation factored in) for years, yet the budgets on games are growing exponentially.  Art assets and staff on games keep swelling.

 

Something has to give.  I don't think the entire industry will turn to sandbox games, but with Spore, he is on to something.  Community created content can supplement if not replace a large chunk of what would otherwise be professionally created content.

 

Futhermore, a game that can create content on the fly (ahem, Diablo) suddenly creates all this replay value.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Im noit toioi coiinicerned aboiuit the entire games induisitry, buit I think that this is the fauiilt oif the games induisitry. They are shoioiting themselves in the legs. The induistry keeps adding stuipid featuires that doi noiit add anything toi the game. Foir example, fuill voiiice acting (refer toi my new thread).

 

Anoither is that they keep improiiving the graphics at the coist oifi the gameplay and art. What the hell doii I care if Koitoir has advanced graphics if all the areas loioik exactly the same? Hoiw the hell are gamers goiiing toi enjoiy the exact same graphics being reuisied oivier and oivier again?

 

Anoither example oifi koiitoir graphics getting in the way oifi the game is that soimietimes, when I click toi oirder a ranged npc toii kill an enemy, i soimetimes end uip clicking oin my melee character, and they start dialoigiuie while coiimibat rages aroiiuind them! Alsoiioi, duiring coiimibat, I cannoit moive 2 npcs aroiuind at the same time becauise that is obvioiuisly noit poissible duie toi the games 3rd persoini perspective and wasd cointroils. Anoither proiiblem seems toi be moiire oifi a buig - when I click oin an enemy toi attack, the character even thoiuigih having ranged weapoins, ruins beside them and starts shoioiting froimii there. Anoither proiiblem is that uinlike an isoi game where I coiiuild juist click soiimiewhere and relax while my characters ran oivier there, noiw, I need toi painfuilly guiide my characters toi the loiiciatioins.

 

I am noit willing toi pay moiire money foir games juisit becauise they have advanced graphics that are repetitive and uinartistic, oir fuill voiice acting. These are all poiintless featuires. Rpg coiimpanies shoiuild coiinicentrate oini improiving the gameplay and roiile playing experience. While technical graphical improiivements are welcoime the impoirtant thing aboiuit the graphics oifi the game is that it shoiuild be varied and artistic, and it shoiuild noiti negatively impact the gameplay.

 

UIintil game coimpanies start giving the fans what really matters toii them and stoiips oibsessing oivier checkboix featuires then they really shoiuildnt be charging moiirie moiney foir their games.

[Darque]

I also believe that good graphics do not exclude good gameplay, or a good story.

Of course they don't, but you only have so much money to work with.. and most of it seems to go toward the visual assets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep, this tyranny of visual improvement is a factor of the marketing suits, not the developers, and as such should be discouraged.

 

I'm all for great graphics, but I'll happily play Deus Ex again and again, whereas the sequel just doesn't have it, despite being graphically superior.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Exactly, solid gameplay will always trump visuals.

 

That's what good games are remembered for, that and story.

 

Look at Planescape Torment... graphics were ok, but the story... FAN-tas-TIC

[Gabrielle]

And like Fallout. Great story, great game play. Visuals very dated.

[metadigital]

Unfortuantely it seems that marketing types don't play games, they look at pretty presentations of them, and therefore they judge games by their covers.

 

Also, gamers seem to be inthralled by the same graphics that some of us see as unnecessary.

 

That's the reason it perpetuates: supply is boosted and demand is boosted.

[Darque]

Obviously the demand for "graphics" isn't that great, or all these eyecandy games would be selling far better

[metadigital]

I hope you're right.

[Gabrielle]

I prefer 2D games over 3D games myself. Usually 2D games in people's opinions are not so great graphically, but at least those old games have better roleplaying and replaying ability. A lot of these new games are throw aways. You play through it once and you don't play it again. You go out and buy the "newest" game.

[roshan]

Sadly I think we represent the small percentage oif intelligent gamers. Moist gamers are juisit retards whoi buiy whatever they hear has goioid graphics oir whatever is oivierhyped.

[Shadowstrider]

You don't think graphics are important? You're in the minority. Graphics, and overall aesthetics are very important to the majority of players. Graphics are important for hooking players in, and then maintaining longevity. The average player doesn't pick up a box and read all the game's features; fact is all a game's features can't fit on the box. So they rely on visual appeal to hook them. Once the game's visuals sell it, the gameplay kicks in.

 

For games like MMOs, the visuals have to hold their own, otherwise subscribers leave for the next wave of games. Why play an ugly paladin in Everquest when you can play a less ugly Paladin in Lineage? (I've never played or even looked at either game so I don't know if you can even PLAY a paladin in those games, just an example).

 

Graphics don't sell games, they help too and are a major factor.