Jedi_Honor Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I'm posting this in the Obsidian forums although this probably has more to do with KotOR rather than KotOR II but since we learn of Revan's departure to Unknown space in KotOR II I think that's the place for this topic. Well, you all know that Kreia tells the Exile that Revan departed alone and did not take anyone with him to the Unknown regions. My question is - where does Zalbaar fit into this? Right when you recruit Zalbaar as a party member in KotOR he swears life debt to you and the words of Mission - I can't remember the exact words - are that he *will* follow you wherever you go until the end of your life (presumably Wookies live longer than humans). You've all seen the persistance of Hanharr when he tries to kill Mira - he either does it or he dies trying. Therefore I think that you *cannot* make a Wookie abandon a life debt regardless of what you do. This leads to the conclusion that Zalbaar *must* have gone with Revan unless... Revan is a Dark Side character. In this case you kill Zalbaar and the life debt is no more. You can therefore go to the Unknown regions alone. To sum up all of this - Revan is either a Dark Side character or Zalbaar is with him on his journey to the Unknown Regions. This may possibly be a KotOR III spoiler but I doubt it. Still you can see that this is a flaw that Obsidian? or Bioware? did not bother cleaning up. Thanks for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I don't think it's really a flaw. Although I'm surprised no one else has brought this up before. I'm sure Revan found some way to get rid of him. taxidermist anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleCookiee Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 DS = Dead... Solved LS = good question. Does Zaalbar appear in the LS end-scene? Last time I played I left him on Kashyyyk , so I don't remember. If not, well, then he died on the SF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Honor Posted August 10, 2005 Author Share Posted August 10, 2005 Yes, he did appear in the LS end scene in both my playthroughs. So the question remains - what happens when Revan is a Light Side male character (considered a cannon character by Lucas)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmtree Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I doubt it would have been that hard for Revan to leave without Zalbaar. After all you're not forced to take him with you all the time in KOTOR 1. It would probably have been easy for Revan to sneak off without him knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Moth Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I sometimes wonder if Zaalbar had to stay behind for some cryptic reason, also. Perhaps like Mandalore, Zaalbar stayed behind so he could help rebuild his planet and strengthen his people. Maybe in K3 (if it is ever made) the wookies are going to help out in the fight against the "True Sith" like the Mandalorians. That'd be sweet. It'd almost be like a "Return of the King" type scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediphile Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 It's a good question. I expect it should receive an answer if we ever see Revan or Zaalbar again, but I can't call it a flaw in K2, since we don't meet any of them, and so we simply don't know what happened. And there are several possibilities. As have been said, Zaalbar could be dead. A DS Revan could have killed him, but he could also have died for a LS Revan for some reason. And don't forget that in the LS ending for Kashyyyk, Zaalbar vows to come back and be chieftain for his tribe. A LS Revan might have used that to persuade Zaalbar that he had more than just the lifedebt to Revan - he had one to his people as well. Revan might also have charged Zaalbar with a mission before leaving. Note how Han instructs Chewbacca to protect Leia at the end of ESB. I could see Revan do something similar, especially an LS Revan. And, of course, Zaalbar could still be with Revan. We just don't know. Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediphile Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I sometimes wonder if Zaalbar had to stay behind for some cryptic reason, also. Perhaps like Mandalore, Zaalbar stayed behind so he could help rebuild his planet and strengthen his people. Maybe in K3 (if it is ever made) the wookies are going to help out in the fight against the "True Sith" like the Mandalorians. That'd be sweet. It'd almost be like a "Return of the King" type scenario. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed. To augment the Republic's forces against the true Sith, Revan calls upon his own "army" of Mandalorians, Wookiees, etc... Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Vrook Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 That would be awesome, but don't try to get a battle like that done with this sort of engine. The 30 something Sith assasains in the Mandalorian camp nearly froze my Xbox! It would be very difficult to get Zaalbar to leave without using deadly force. You can't just push away a wookie. I'm sure Revan used his persuade ability to leave him on Kashyyk for his own good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starwarskid15_19 Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 its simple i think for a LS Revan. Zaalbaar had to go become chieften. Either because his father was sick/dying or Revan told him to do the same as Canderous (rally his people to help against the true sith) like others mentioned. the force is what gives a jedi his power. its an energy field created by all living things. it surrounds us and penetrates us. it binds the galaxy together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Vrook Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 its simple i think for a LS Revan. Zaalbaar had to go become chieften. Either because his father was sick/dying or Revan told him to do the same as Canderous (rally his people to help against the true sith) like others mentioned. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's already been posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I don't really have an answer for this. I can speculate just as well as the next person, but is this really a *major* storyline flaw? I mean, Zaalbar isn't what I'd call a major character. I know, I know, this is me nitpicking again, but a *major* storyline flaw would be if they didn't mention Bastila or Carth. I'd consider this a minor continuity issue at best. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krookie Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I've never thought of this. Mabye Zaalbar did go with him? Now you've go me thinking...did Kriea say "no human could follow him." ? I don't remember but you may have got something here. Good work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Satasn Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 That would be awesome, but don't try to get a battle like that done with this sort of engine. The 30 something Sith assasains in the Mandalorian camp nearly froze my Xbox! It would be very difficult to get Zaalbar to leave without using deadly force. You can't just push away a wookie. I'm sure Revan used his persuade ability to leave him on Kashyyk for his own good. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think they'd rahter make it a big cutscene, like the overhead spacebattle of the starforge...all rendered..they could show all the different people fighting the True sith at different locations. i.e. wookies, mandelorians, the republic lead fleet by carth, and the jedi left by the exile (maybe)...and then they'd place whoever ur PC character in the center of the battle, the main plot, and have u play that out... A game like this wouldn't be able to actually *play* a large scale battle like that, but it also wouldn't make sense either, so I think it would just be cutscenes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I've never thought of this. Mabye Zaalbar did go with him? Now you've go me thinking...did Kriea say "no human could follow him." ? I don't remember but you may have got something here. Good work <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well Kreia did say that Revan made sure to not bring anyone he had attachments to. If he thought of Zaalbar as nothing but a tool to further his cause, then he'd have no emotional attachment to him and thus might bring him along. I understood the reason Revan didn't bring Bastila and Carth because both were possibly romance options (depending on if Revan was male or female) and those "attachments" might cause Revan weakness. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Satasn Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I don't really have an answer for this. I can speculate just as well as the next person, but is this really a *major* storyline flaw? I mean, Zaalbar isn't what I'd call a major character. I know, I know, this is me nitpicking again, but a *major* storyline flaw would be if they didn't mention Bastila or Carth. I'd consider this a minor continuity issue at best. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No no, I agree with that too Ghost. It's not major, but just interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Does anyone care really? That furry dude wasn't interesting at all. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krookie Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Does anyone care really? That furry dude wasn't interesting at all. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I thought he was great. I took him everywhere. Him and Canderous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeroFantasy Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 why do you guys even care where Zalbaar fits into all this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Satasn Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I hated Zalabar, but it's the theory and speculation that drives me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediphile Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I think they'd rahter make it a big cutscene, like the overhead spacebattle of the starforge...all rendered..they could show all the different people fighting the True sith at different locations. i.e. wookies, mandelorians, the republic lead fleet by carth, and the jedi left by the exile (maybe)...and then they'd place whoever ur PC character in the center of the battle, the main plot, and have u play that out... A game like this wouldn't be able to actually *play* a large scale battle like that, but it also wouldn't make sense either, so I think it would just be cutscenes.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Probably, but that would actually be cool, too. I mean, depending your choices throughout the entire trilogy, you get to see various cutscenes that influence the ending. That could be good, I think. Hmm, thinking of what I did with Zaalbar in my proposed K3 plot, I wonder if Revan didn't charge him with assembling an army of Wookiees just as he did Canderous. I could see something like that in a cutscene, where the LS Revan tells Zaalbar to do this... "No, Zaalbar, you cannot come with me. Yes, I know you've sworn to always stay by my side, but the path I must now walk I must walk alone, since it is a path for the jedi alone. Just as you could not stand with me in the Rakatan temple, so you must now let me walk this path alone..." "But I do not wish to make you forsake your lifedebt. Indeed, if I survive the darkness that I must now face, then I will need strong allies to fight in the greatest war of our time, and the Republic is in no shape for that now. I have told Canderous to find the lost Mandalorians for this cause, but I fear that will not be enough. You can be of far greater help to me, if you can gather allies as well." "How? By uniting the Wookiees to our cause, Zaalbar. How many of your people have Czerka enslaved and scattered over the galaxy? How many of them have since rebelled and are now lost on foreign worlds? Find them, Zaalbar! Find them and unite them! For if I succeed in my task, then I will need their aid in the final war that will shape the future of the galaxy. Or something along those lines... Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Honor Posted August 10, 2005 Author Share Posted August 10, 2005 Well, I do care where Zalbaar fits into this because: 1. He plays a major role in the first game - Kashyyyk is probably the only planet where you *have* to complete a side quest of one of your party members regardless of whether you want it or not. In fact I think that without Zalbaar as a party member you cannot complete Kashyyyk. 2. Kreia mentions that Revan went there alone and everything that's connected to Revan's fate is of interest to me (and I believe to all of the ones who are impatiently waiting for K3). 3. Strangely enough I consider Zalbaar to be one of the characters in the game that shows signs of development and has a temperament allowing change - example is when he defies Revan's order to attack Mission in the DS scenario - and that means that he posesses something that most of the Wookies don't - a will to go against the most ancient and sacred of all traditions (a life debt). 4. He is maybe the only character that remains a mystery to the player throughout the entire game because of the limited pool of dialogue options and of course Zalbaar's origin as well as his mentality. If you're a problem solver (like me) then he would definitely appeal to you. I think that's about enough reasons to be interested in Zalbaar. Thank you all for the wonderful speculation and the variety of opinions this thread managed to gather. If anyone has anything different than those, of course he/she is welcome to post it and it would be well appreciated. As for me, I personally believe that the developers left a hidden door for further use if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 He's also a hairy walking rug with the personality of a lake mucus. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Honor Posted August 10, 2005 Author Share Posted August 10, 2005 I don't know if that's at all relevant to what we're talking about... care to back up your opinion with facts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 well, we can back up the hairy walking rug part. (w00t) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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