Zen Thought For the Day

[Cantousent]

Going back to bushido, by accepting death, one of the concomitants is that  by accepting the transience of the grossly physical things like wealth and status one raises the comparative importance of intangible things like honour. No bad thing, IMO.

 

Just out of curiosity, how do you (you personally) practice to learn to truly accept death? Do you believe that by adopting some philosophical viewpoint you'll learn to transcend your fear of dying?

 

N.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Of course folks use philosophical viewpoints to overcome the fear of death. You've just gotten mixed up as to the problem. The problem isn't that the philosophy caters to teenagers. The problem is that the end result appeals to teenagers. Teenagers who aren't serious about learning the truths inherent in the philosophy will undoubtedly fail to apply the philosophy properly to their lives.

 

On the other hand, to those who adhere to the teachings of the philosophy, Bushido can provide a life changing experience. It can provide calm in the face of danger and death. It is a pathway to self assurance and discipline. Not everyone can achieve these lofty goals, that's true, but do you suggest that every person who strives to follow the path of Bushido should be ridiculed for the effort? If so, then Bushido gives double benefit to the student: once in the learning and once again in the hostile face of folks who cast doubt upon the very endeavor. I would say that you should tell us more of your personal philosophy, and I mean a sufficient amount to judge, and then face our ridicule. The thing is, I hope Walsingham wouldn't try to discourage you and I know that I wouldn't have the heart. There is nothing wrong with trying to apply philosophy to your real life. It is one of the reasons, for both good and ill, that people have been willing to risk, or even accept, death for a greater cause.

 

I don't follow Bushido. I don't intend on getting in any fights if there's a reasonable way to avoid them. Hell, I took tae kwon do when I was stationed in Korea and I thought that it was a good experience, but most of my (many) fights occured before I even entered the service. Now? I'm just a wimp. I don't want to fight anyone and I would rather look for an exit than an opponent. Still, psyching yourself up for conflict and combat is an effective tool for combating fear. If someone can use Bushido towards such an end, good for them.

 

 

EDIT: ah, I didn't see the pissing contest between you two until the previous page. Well, my point still stands, but it is applied more liberally now!

[metadigital]

...

I don't intend on getting in any fights if there's a reasonable way to avoid them.  Hell, I took tae kwon do when I was stationed in Korea and I thought that it was a good experience, but most of my (many) fights occured before I even entered the service.  Now?  I'm just a wimp.  I don't want to fight anyone and I would rather look for an exit than an opponent.  ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The more I learn about pugilism, the more I look for alternatives. There are too many ways for a "lucky punch" to do too serious amount of damage ...

[julianw]

Well, when I first learned that people can die. I thought to myself: don't worry, you will be the first guy to invent a medicine that gives everlasting life. I have believed it ever since. I guess stage one for me. :D

[Calax]

Personally I'm a young immortal teenager who can't be wrong so NYAAAH YOU ALL SUCK. I AIN'T NEVER GOING TO DIE.

[Nightblade]

Of course folks use philosophical viewpoints to overcome the fear of death. 

Do you speak for Walsingham? Or yourself?

You wander into the discussion like a child and start replying to questions not directed to you.

 

Btw, provocation =/ pissing contest. I just wanna see how well Wals actually applies Bushido to his life. I wrote a longer post on the last page, and the only reply I got was a two-liner from Wals, proclaiming that he'd rather practice the Way of the Samurai, because he wants to combat fear instead of sitting in some monestary. In the face of ignorance like this I can't help but provoke a little, not to ridicule, but to see how well the guy in question actually applies Bushido.

 

Happy? Anything else you wanna know?

 

N.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I don't think I've ever overcome fear of death.

 

It's interesting to read those steps metadigital posted. I think I've gone trough all stages, but am in a sort of limbo where they all meet. However, I wasn't able to have "quiet discussions of death with closest friends and relatives" because... To put it simply, death and lunacy run in the family blood. And its a surprise to me how most of the time it's still treated as a taboo of sorts. I've heard of suicide attempts, and suicides executed by certain family members. I've personally witnessed a suicide attempt by a very close relative. Family members that are close to dying go off the deep end, and have weird behaviour ranging from seeing and conversing to people who are not there, to claiming they will not return or will not last long - and they're right.

 

Yet, none of this is discussed in between us. If its hinted that someone in the family had mental problems, its received with inital shock, then a form of apathy, or just the expectancy that the subject is changed. After having witnessed several of my family members pass away recently, ranging from one year to a couple of months ago, I'm surprised that I can't cry at any of this. I'm undecided if this is coldness and a certain detachment from family and feelings, or just a more radical way of dealing with things, by burying it somewhere inside. But then again I'm not sure I should worry because most of us in the family react the same way (with the likely exception of my mother). She never recovers well from these things, and is still in a state of depression nearly one year after her father - my grandfather - died. When that happened I just sat there looking at everyone cry. Even my father, who is akin to a heavy piece of rock who advocates money and materialism over feelings.

 

It seems death is still a taboo, though not just in my family. Even in discussions with close friends, death was never much of a topic (with the exception of the occasional "life after death" convos), and death in the family was even less discussed.

[metadigital]

Sounds like your family has dysfunctional communication.

 

Not everyone wants to express feelings and deal with them in the open.

 

Also, talking about old emotional issues doesn't necessarily make the pain better or bearable; sometimes it just makes the person feel worse, reliving the pain over and again.

 

That said, I think in order for you to walk through the steps listed, you probably need to address your feelings on those who have died. It needs to be with someone you completely trust, so if there isn't anyone, you're at a distinct diadvantage.

 

Also, don't think that "getting over it" is a normal part of grieving. Many people never get over a death

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Well yes, that's a good set of comments and suggestions. I appreciate it. Communication with members of my family on these matters is pretty frail, but I suppose I can draw these feelings in conversation with other people I know. There's at least one person I know I can count on to talk of these things with me (though in honesty I didn't want to burden her with this).

 

Nonetheless thanks for the comments, meta.

[EnderAndrew]

I think death runs in all families, save for immortals.

[Walsingham]

Of course folks use philosophical viewpoints to overcome the fear of death. 

Do you speak for Walsingham? Or yourself?

You wander into the discussion like a child and start replying to questions not directed to you.

 

Btw, provocation =/ pissing contest. I just wanna see how well Wals actually applies Bushido to his life. I wrote a longer post on the last page, and the only reply I got was a two-liner from Wals, proclaiming that he'd rather practice the Way of the Samurai, because he wants to combat fear instead of sitting in some monestary. In the face of ignorance like this I can't help but provoke a little, not to ridicule, but to see how well the guy in question actually applies Bushido.

 

Happy? Anything else you wanna know?

 

N.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

And you could try reading some of Eldar's other posts before ridiculing him as a child. He always takes the trouble to read what people write, and try to respond in a measured way. I'd suggest that if you actually want a civil answer to your own questions you learn from him.

 

You are, however, quite correct to want to know what I am actually doing about living in the way of the Samurai, and the answer is mixed. I do not believe that for the sake of a small insult I should run round to your house and cut your head off. I have chosen to apply the lessons of the samurai as they relate to service to others. My job involves running a number of risks, and a fair degree of thankless labour. The life of the samurai focusses on service up to and including death under similar conditions. I use their observations, and some of their outlook to give me the courage to take the risks, and the good humour to not look for thanks.

 

As for overcoming a fear of death I'd suggest that nothing works quite so well as nearly dying! This has happened to me on several occasions, by assault, accident, insect, and microbe. I think that one must look on death with the emotional reaction of someone knowing it will rain. Needless to say such composure is not always possible, but I think it makes a good goal. Because, as I say, when you cease fearing death, then many other counter-prouctive and annoying behaviours fall away.

 

I think to a great extent realising you can die, and will die, is the main reason why people freeze the first time they are threatened by death, whether under fire or mugging, or accidents. You get overwhelmed with all these thoughts and fear and regrets, and forget that you ought to be doing something about the problem. Realising and accepting it can happen in advance lets you get on with NOT doing it at any given moment.

[EnderAndrew]

Just as a small nitpick, Bushido is the Way of a Bushi, a warrior. Hagakure is specifically the way of the Samurai. It seems most people don't know the difference.

[Walsingham]

*raises hand*

 

I did not know that. I assumed that the hagakure was one text that described the way of the warrior.

[EnderAndrew]

Though people commonly refer to Bushido as the Samurai code, Bushido applied to all warriors in feudal Japan, like Ashigaru.

 

Samurai were in a caste all to themselves, and their path wasn't one simply of war. While they had to uphold Bushido, they had a higher moral path in addition to Bushido.

[Kaftan Barlast]

The Ashigaru were the lowest of the low(many of them were commoners) and usually not considered to actually be Buke, thus it was not expected of them to adhere to any code of Bushido.

 

 

The Hagakure is a collection of short notes on everything from the correct way to perform Kaishaku to stories about adultery and make-up advice. Some of these were treated as guidelines and/or advice by the Samurai of the Hizen province. With its fanatic "dont think, act!" apoproach it contradicts earlier works like the writings of Yagama Soka, who promotes wisdom and ethics.

 

 

 

edit: Wiggin, ye darn nitpicker. of course I was talking about "lowest iof the low" within the warrior class :ph34r:

 

 

interesting note: The Hagakure actually dismisses the actions of the famous "47 Ronin"; an event who is usually heralded as the epitome of Bushido display. Yamamoto Tsunetomo argues that they should simply have rushed headlong to attack their enemies fortress and been cut down, instead of waiting two years to plan it so that the operation actually had any chance of succeeding..

[EnderAndrew]

Ashigaru were not the lowest of the low. They were the lowest of the Bushi ranks.

 

The Eta were the lowest of the lowest within Japan. Their name translates directly to "Filth".

 

Some contend that Gaijin are below Eta, since they aren't in the celestial caste system at all. They are completely beneath it.

[Darth Barth]

Ashigaru were not the lowest of the low.  They were the lowest of the Bushi ranks.

 

The Eta were the lowest of the lowest within Japan.  Their name translates directly to "Filth".

 

Some contend that Gaijin are below Eta, since they aren't in the celestial caste system at all.  They are completely beneath it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And I thought being in a streetsweeping caste was bad.

[EnderAndrew]

Someone who cleans filth is better than being filth yourself.

[metadigital]

I know someone who knows someone who cleans the cleanerbots. (They obviously haven't invented a bot to clean cleanerbots, yet.)

[EnderAndrew]

But eventually we'll all be replaced.

 

I apologize for being so pedantic. The point of this thread was to inspire banter, not kill it.

[213374U]

I know someone who knows someone who cleans the cleanerbots. (They obviously haven't invented a bot to clean cleanerbots, yet.)

Isn't that a DX2 joke?

[metadigital]

I know someone who knows someone who cleans the cleanerbots. (They obviously haven't invented a bot to clean cleanerbots, yet.)

Isn't that a DX2 joke?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ding! Ding! Ding!

 

You've won tonight's star prize: A Blow On The Head.

[213374U]

Yes, I know. I should not remind you of such a painful experience. :">

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's just I can't get it off my head!!!!

[metadigital]

Meditate on some mantra ... No! ... Not that phrase! Anything but that phrase. That way leads to madness ...

[Cantousent]

Happy? Anything else you wanna know?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, Nightblade, that's quite alright. I didn't really intend to ridicule your beliefs anyhow.

[metadigital]

Yes, I know. I should not remind you of such a painful experience. :">

It's just I can't get it off my head!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually I'm still on my latest playthrough (with al the extra tectures, it crashed last time I sat down to play it for a good stint ...)