So uh, why was KOTOR2 rushed?

[Gorth]

In either event, not enough time was put in K2.

That sums it up pretty neatly. If the release day (xmas) was the originally scheduled one, then somebody didn't take the fans or their IP very seriously. If it was moved forward from some unknow date, then somebody was in dire need of some income on their 2004 FY statement. If it was time taken out of the schedule to make marketing appearances at E3, then shame on everybody. Could it really have been that necessary ?

 

Six more months in the oven would have made a lot of difference for certain aspects of the game, not at least the QA and polish

[GhostofAnakin]

That sums it up pretty neatly. If the release day (xmas) was the originally scheduled one, then somebody didn't take the fans or their IP very seriously. If it was moved forward from some unknow date, then somebody was in dire need of some income on their 2004 FY statement. If it was time taken out of the schedule to make marketing appearances at E3, then shame on everybody. Could it really have been that necessary ?

 

Six more months in the oven would have made a lot of difference for certain aspects of the game, not at least the QA and polish 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I blame it on Episode III. Lucasarts(film) probably didn't want all their various games/etc. coming out the same time, so Lucasarts was probably adamant about KOTOR2 being completed before the Ep. III game and movie were slated to be released, thus any chance of pushing TSL's release back for another 2 or 3 full months (as opposed to the very little extra time they had on the PC version) was slim to none.

[Calax]

They really need to get it to neonatal care " But at least it's not as bad as the Revenge of the sith game.

[Weiser_Cain]

I blame it all on cross platform development and time restrictions.

[metadigital]

I blame man's inhumanity to man.

[Nartwak]

I blame Lizardmen from Outer Space.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

I blame it on pants. Take them off.

[metadigital]

I blame Lizardmen from Outer Space.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interestingly, gaining a magic wand in Akalabeth:[can't remember the colonated subtitle] (the precursor to the Ultima series) and casting a shapechange resulted in (sometimes) your PC becoming a Lizardman! A Lizardman was a great PC race, because they had about ten times as many hit points as well as magic and poison resistence, and everything.

 

Sadly, the magic wand was only found a couple of levels down in the dungeon, and one of the possiblities was being turned into a rat.

 

They weren't, technically, from outer space, though.

[213374U]

They really need to get it to neonatal care " But at least it's not as bad as the Revenge  of the sith game.

What are you talking about. For all its shortness, the RotS game was great. The best lightsaber combat system of any game, ever.

[jaguars4ever]

I Blame it on Rio - where you can pick up at Amazon for $14.95

[EnderAndrew]

I imagine Obsidian had left food on the stove and had to hurry the game development before dinner burned.

[alanschu]

I think KOTOR had a better story than NWN, but people also overlook the poor dialogue in KOTOR and the total lack of character development.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you've got it the wrong way around. Those character quests were good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Character quests != character development.

[EnderAndrew]

Again, this man is a genius.

[alanschu]

I don't see what's so great about the influence system. It just forces you to do and say exactly the same things in connection to your NPC every time you play the game. And once you've done that, they have nothing more to say for the rest of the game. I must say I prefer experience to unlock the backstory of a character, and that doesn't need to have anything to do with characters changing or being dynamic. You can have dynamic characters without having to cuddle them everytime you speak to them. For instance if I want to keep a good relation with Kreia and still be a Good Guy, I know that I can't bring her to the Refugee Sector on Nar Shaddaa. Then again if I'm a Bad Guy, there is much temptation in her tagging along to that place for some easy influence points. I say flush that system down where it belongs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

[RANTMODE] ****ALANSCHU INFLUENCE: DECREASED****

 

I think that's EXACTLY the problem with people that complain about the influence system. People get pissed because they can't be a good guy and have Kreia with them for the Refugee Sector. I say suck it up! The thing I liked most about the game was that sometimes people would get pissed at you. Trying to play the game so that you have maximum influence with everyone simply for the sake of having maximum influence defeats the purpose of having the influence.

 

If you're going through the Refugee Sector thinking "Damn, I want to be good, but I need more influence with Kreia, so I better not bring her along since there are events that will force me to choose between being good or being buddy, buddy with Kreia and that's just geh" then you're metagaming, and defeating the purpose of the influence system (or just powergaming). Although it was not nearly fleshed out enough, and allowed you to circumvent influence changes by skipping party members, the influence system was an attempt to create a certain autonomy for the NPCs in the game. But noooooooooooo, as soon as someone said something that caused negative influence with a character they influenced, they cried "WTF! This suxx0r I want to be wubbed by that NPC......<loadgame>" never realizing that if they wanted to influence that NPC, they should have just picked that option. But wait, now I gained a few darkside points and I no longer have full lightside bonus because I just *NEED* that +3 bonus to my attributes. I'm not lightside unless it's ALL the way up there

 

 

The first time I played KOTOR, I tried roleplaying my character as someone that tried to use my new found power to be a positive force in the galaxy. Unfortunately, I would rationalize doing some "evil" things, if I thought it was for the greater good. And when on Korriban, I felt I had to fully "embrace" the Sith teachings to keep my cover. With the combination of being indoctrinated by the Sith Master, and the lure/hold of the Dark Side, I came out of Korriban a permanently changed man. And by the time of the big twist on the forgotten planet, I had *just* finally received my darkside bonus, as I know embraced my heritage of being the Sith Lord Revan. It was seriously perfect timing, and was easily one of the most enjoyable experiences I had ever had playing any game, let alone an RPG.

 

[/RANTMODE]

 

Don't worry about the next level, next attribute point, or a precious LS/DS mastery bonus, and just play the character. If your good decisions piss off someone in your group, then roleplay with it. My LS play through was a self-sacrificing Jedi, that already understood many of the gray areas Kreia reminds me of. Because of her dogmatic teachings, my character began to intentionally go against whatever Kreia said, simply because I was feuding with her. I had maximum negative influence with her, and heavy negative influence with GOTO and HK-47 as well.

 

If you want to be good, understand and accept that some people are going to not like your actions. If you want to influence someone, understand that you're going to have to sacrifice that precious LS/DS bonus (in some cases). Just play the game without worrying about crap like that. You don't need max influence with everyone.

 

You DON'T need to say the exact same thing every time, because you DON'T need to have max influence with everyone. My Darkside playthrough (first playthrough) liked Atton and his cynicism. Turning him to the darkside was one of the coolest things I had done in a video game. It didn't matter that Handmaiden thought I was a prick, because I was such a jerk to her. She deserved it!

 

 

On a final note, to refute the "say the exact same thing every time" bit, don't you play through the character quests in KOTOR 1 the exact same way and everything too? Often talking with them in the exact same way as well?

[EnderAndrew]

You can't get max influence with every member of your party at once, and that's the way it should be. If one action pleases Atton and pisses off Kreia, then I'm all for that style of play. I like that my party members have differing opinions.

[alanschu]

*ding* *ding* *ding*

 

However, as much as I love the influence system and what it wanted to accomplish, there is one glaring flaw with it, which has been mentioned elsewhere. The characters should have reacted more to their alignment.

 

After convincing Handmaiden to fall to the dark side and become one of my apprentices, it kind of ruins things when she still comments that I should have helped Person X instead of leaving them to die

 

But I love the idea of reputation and influence.....it's just not always implemented the way I like it

[Darth_Schmarth]

I don't see what's so great about the influence system. It just forces you to do and say exactly the same things in connection to your NPC every time you play the game. And once you've done that, they have nothing more to say for the rest of the game. I must say I prefer experience to unlock the backstory of a character, and that doesn't need to have anything to do with characters changing or being dynamic. You can have dynamic characters without having to cuddle them everytime you speak to them. For instance if I want to keep a good relation with Kreia and still be a Good Guy, I know that I can't bring her to the Refugee Sector on Nar Shaddaa. Then again if I'm a Bad Guy, there is much temptation in her tagging along to that place for some easy influence points. I say flush that system down where it belongs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where did you dig up that old post anyway... :">

 

[RANTMODE]  ****ALANSCHU INFLUENCE: DECREASED****

 

I think that's EXACTLY the problem with people that complain about the influence system.  People get pissed because they can't be a good guy and have Kreia with them for the Refugee Sector.  I say suck it up!  The thing I liked most about the game was that sometimes people would get pissed at you.  Trying to play the game so that you have maximum influence with everyone simply for the sake of having maximum influence defeats the purpose of having the influence.

 

If you're going through the Refugee Sector thinking "Damn, I want to be good, but I need more influence with Kreia, so I better not bring her along since there are events that will force me to choose between being good or being buddy, buddy with Kreia and that's just geh" then you're metagaming, and defeating the purpose of the influence system (or just powergaming).  Although it was not nearly fleshed out enough, and allowed you to circumvent influence changes by skipping party members, the influence system was an attempt to create a certain autonomy for the NPCs in the game.  But noooooooooooo, as soon as someone said something that caused negative influence with a character they influenced, they cried "WTF!  This suxx0r I want to be wubbed by that NPC......<loadgame>" never realizing that if they wanted to influence that NPC, they should have just picked that option.  But wait, now I gained a few darkside points and I no longer have full lightside bonus because I just *NEED* that +3 bonus to my attributes.  I'm not lightside unless it's ALL the way up there

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The problem lies within two things, one being temptation. It is connected to another, being half the game/plot being stowed away on the ominously slender branches of Kreia's conversation tree. See? Why do I need Kreia's influence anyway? Well, in order to fully enjoy or even understand the game. We all know how unfulfilling this game threatens to be anyway, and giving Kreia limited on-screen time will not help that fact. I'm not a powergamer, I just want the story to be told in an adequately satisfactory manner, not force me to fill in the gaps because I already played it through a couple of times.

 

My main gripe with the influence system, however, is how it was implemented. As someone mentioned above, the influence didn't matter character wise. Like I've said a billion times on this forum, when you play DS and send Handmaiden (with low influence because she's a Nice Girl) to the Freedon Nadd tomb, you have the option of letting her embrace the dark side. Meanwhile your evil Exile kicks Kavar's butt in Iziz, and upon returning to Dxun he meets up with Handy. She says something along the lines of "I was so worried about you!" (yeah, really DS), only to go stone cold again after that conversation. She is still as LS as she'll ever be. That is bad writing. In a good story she would have said "I understand your point of view now, Master" or "You die. Now.". But that whole turn-your-tomb-party-leader-to-the-dark-side was just another unfinished piece of the plot left dangling.

 

The first time I played KOTOR, I tried roleplaying my character as someone that tried to use my new found power to be a positive force in the galaxy.  Unfortunately, I would rationalize doing some "evil" things, if I thought it was for the greater good.  And when on Korriban, I felt I had to fully "embrace" the Sith teachings to keep my cover.  With the combination of being indoctrinated by the Sith Master, and the lure/hold of the Dark Side, I came out of Korriban a permanently changed man.  And by the time of the big twist on the forgotten planet, I had *just* finally received my darkside bonus, as I know embraced my heritage of being the Sith Lord Revan.  It was seriously perfect timing, and was easily one of the most enjoyable experiences I had ever had playing any game, let alone an RPG.

[/RANTMODE]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interestingly, that's exactly how my first KotOR playthrough played out! (only I never quite reached mastery on either end of the scale)

[alanschu]

****ALANSCHU INFLUENCE: INCREASED****

 

 

:D

[EnderAndrew]

Oddly enough, when I sent Handmaiden off to Nadd's tomb LS I ran into the same problem. They obviously intended for there to be new conversation there to represent the changes your student went through their first time on their own. But the conversation just isn't there.

 

That's not a fault of the influence system so much as an unfinished game.

[alanschu]

I guess you could say that the poor reactions to the changing influence is attributable to the game being less than finished.

 

 

After all, it's "just" changing the dialogue to match the alignment (plus all sorts of stuff to make sure quest triggers are all hit properly and a ton of other stuff....but it's "simple" right :D). But yeah, I was disappointed with that part of the influence.

[Darth_Schmarth]

****ALANSCHU INFLUENCE: INCREASED****

 

 

:D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know for a moment there, I thought I'd lost you.

[alanschu]

Anybody that doesn't just go through the game being evil/good ALL the time to get the mastery bonus ASAP is in my book.

 

The worst is the people that reload because they've gotten some darkside points like it's some sort of blemish on their perfect record or something

 

[EnderAndrew]

You can get a few DS/LS points and still get mastery.

[alanschu]

You can get plenty of opposite points and still attain mastery. On my extreme playthroughs I pretty much had mastery before I left Taris.

[EnderAndrew]

I was shocked that I got a DS point for intimidating someone to avoid combat, and avoid killing them.