Baneblade Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 Its no use to try and make sense of it, they made up things as they went with the classic trilogy. Its quite apparent that Anakin and Obi-Wan were supposed to be the same age, both hotshot pilots in the clone wars(which noone had any idea what it was supposed to be until the late ninties, Lucas included) and Obi-Wan tried to learn his friend about the force but he fell to the dark side. Its also apparent that all Jedi would have manifested as apparitions after their deaths, becomming part of the force in a kind of Buddhist way. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Perhaps... What I'm aiming at, is that if it takes someone 30 years to make 6 movies, then he sould at least make the story arc coherent. To me, it just seems that he dissed the creative input of people who Contributed in making the OT. Thinking along the lines "It doesn't matter if thing don't add up, tihs time I'm making it the way I want it.. continuity be damned." "If at first you don't succeed... So much for skydiving." - Henry Youngman.
Yst Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 Its no use to try and make sense of it, they made up things as they went with the classic trilogy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But sense needs to be made of it if the EU is to be built around these unstable foundations. A conclusion has to be made at the very least regarding which side of a contradiction is more appealing, or how any given contradiction can be reconciled. If George Lucas doesn't reconcile those contradictions, it's left to those other creative minds who work with Star Wars lore, and to the fans, to reach a concensus.
Kaftan Barlast Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 Im shure the continuity editors at Lucas Licensing has got it all in check. I expect a good chunk of the EU will be scratched of the canon material list now. Like they did with pre-sequel stuff like Dark Empire and most of what was done in the 80's DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
WITHTEETH Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 What caught my eye is the dream was the catalyst. If Padme was dieing because she didn't have the will to live anymore, due to anakin turning darkside, why did anakin have the dream in the first place? Cause and effect rule was broken it seems. Any explanations? Always outnumbered, never out gunned! Unreal Tournament 2004 Handle:Enlight_2.0 Myspace Website! My rig
213374U Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 If George Lucas doesn't reconcile those contradictions, it's left to those other creative minds who work with Star Wars lore, and to the fans, to reach a concensus. You have too much faith in fans attending to reason. "Begun, the Canon Wars have" - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
tmp Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 What caught my eye is the dream was the catalyst. If Padme was dieing because she didn't have the will to live anymore, due to anakin turning darkside, why did anakin have the dream in the first place? Cause and effect rule was broken it seems. Any explanations? Classic greek tragedy stuff. The protagonist tries to avoid the fate they foresee or are told about, and the very actions they take to stop things from happening actually are the final catalyst which leads to the events they tried to stop. (you could say this is all gods' will or, as certain KotOR villain would put it, will of the Force
Yann Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 New question: If Sid tells Vader that he killed padme then why doesn't Vader call him a liar or something when he realises that he didn't kill her and he was being lied to
jaguars4ever Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 New question: If Sid tells Vader that he killed padme then why doesn't Vader call him a liar or something when he realises that he didn't kill her and he was being lied to <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Um...because Vader did kill Padme and Sid's right.
tmp Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 If Sid tells Vader that he killed padme then why doesn't Vader call him a liar or something when he realises that he didn't kill her and he was being lied to Well, he did kill her, kinda.. like she tells him, that he's breaking her heart and stuff acting like that, and then he chokes her and she loses will to live because of all that and well, dies. Technically ol' Siddy didn't tell him anything about the children, they pretty much both assumed since Padme kicked the bucket then so must've the kid(s) ... or something to that effect.
jaguars4ever Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 Palpatine was a nice guy and those Rebel scum were bad I tell you! He was wrongly assassinated and we should all mourn his death.
Darth Flatus Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 Palps was a cool dude :cool: he's always jolly and he can do weird things with his voice.
Antagonist Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 I still can't believe how poorly Lucas handled Anakin's fall. Who would have ever thought that the mightly Darth Vader betrayed the Republic because he was love-stricken and without a doubt lobotomized ?! Papls admitted that he don't know how to save Padme but Anakin still switches to Sith mode in mere seconds because... the story demanded it. The most important aspect of RotS ruined. The sad part is that TESB already did give a very plausible motive for Vader to betray the Republic: When he talks to Luke in Cloud City he tells him that he wants to bring order to the galaxy. Lucas just needed to portray young Anakin as someone who joins the Republic to do what he deems good and is increasingly dissatisfied with the senats perceived inaction. Then come Palps, ambitious senator, and offers him an arguably easier alternative to make his notions of justice come true but he pays the price. This would have nicely fitted with what Yoda said that Vader took the quick and easy path. I also didn't like the duel. There were too many before the final confrontation so that I wasn't all that interested in yet more saber swinging anymore and I thought it lacked any dramatic tension like the ones in the OT. Just flashy fighting with no depth. I guess anybody remebers the scene in TESB where Luke hits Vaders shoulder because Vader became impatient. Until then he had complete control over the fight but his lack of self-control made it possible for Luke to make at least one counter-attack. I always imagined that the fight between Obi-Wan and Anaking would be slower: They are both deadly with the light saber and they both know each others style well. But after some time where Anakin can't get the upper hand he becames angry and Obi-Wans defeats him because he remains his composure. Instead Anakin jumps into Obi-Wans lightsaber. Bah, RotS is not even worthy to clean the OTs shoes, especially ANH and TESB. I guess people will see what a turd this movie is once the novelty wears off. For god's sake, the movie introduced so many continuity issues that it boggles my mind.
Darth Flatus Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 how many times did you watch it before reaching your conclusion?
jaguars4ever Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 Palps was a cool dude :cool: he's always jolly Indeed - Palps is a nice fellow who's just misunderstood. --- and he can do weird things with his voice. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hell yeah. Vader's Sith indocrination leaves a lot to the imagination: When Ulic Qel Droma and Exar Kun were indocrinated, the Ghosts of the Old Sith (such as Marka Ragnos), were speaking from beyond the grave. And if you listen carefully, there was someone else speaking other than Palps... :cool:
Darth Flatus Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 ... And if you listen carefully, there was someone else speaking other than Palps... :cool: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, i was wondering how the girl from The Exorcist got in there... EDIT: ok, like but seriously, who did you hear jag?
tmp Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 I still can't believe how poorly Lucas handled Anakin's fall. Who would have ever thought that the mightly Darth Vader betrayed the Republic because he was love-stricken and without a doubt lobotomized ?! (..) The sad part is that TESB already did give a very plausible motive for Vader to betray the Republic: When he talks to Luke in Cloud City he tells him that he wants to bring order to the galaxy. (..) This would have nicely fitted with what Yoda said that Vader took the quick and easy path. Except then it would make completely no sense for Vader to pick his son over the fate of this beloved 'new order' he helped to create at the very end of ep.6 The way it's done in the movie he's at least consistent with the other parts, with those he loves being always put above everything else.
mstormrage Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 Anakin's fall to the dark side actually started before he was accepted for Jedi training: fear for his mother. Then, when he avenged his mother's death at the hands of the Tusken Raiders, he was tipping further down the Dark path. If you accept any part of the EU, Anakin skirted the dark side in the many campains he and Obi-wan shared. EDIT: This is actually in the StarWars.com databank on Anakin Skywalker. So, it's canon. His conversion to the Dark Side in Ep. III was actually rather subtle. First, Palp knew that Anakin was trying to find out how to prevent Padme from dying in childbirth. As my wife pointed out, how do we know that Palp wasn't projecting the death sequence into Anakin's dreams in the first place? Palp made it tempting for Ani to walk along the Dark path by setting the precondition for it. Palp also forcing Anakin to sit on the Jedi Council without the acceptence of the Jedi Masters stirred Anakin's ego again and "forced" the showdown between Anakin and the Council. His skirting the Dark path when he lopped off Dooku's head in the beginning and realising that being Judge, Jury, and Executioner were not the "Jedi Way". For Master Windu to abandon the Jedi Code forced Anakin to view his previous action as being wrong and forced him to doubt that the Jedi were acting in the interest of the Republic. It didn't hurt that Anakin and Palpatine were friends. It was only after Anakin helped Palp destroy Master Windu that Anakin realized that he had no future as a Jedi from that point on. Given these pre-conditions, why would Anakin have acted any differently? In regard to killing off Dooku... This was a pre-condition for Palpatine to have Darth Vader in Ep. IV. "There can be only two. Master and apprentice." I do agree that Dooku's (okay, his stunt double's) sabre performance in this film was sub-standard compared to Ep. II. Just as Kenobi's performance in Ep. II was sub-standard to his performance in Ep. I. Ep. III was, to me, far more enjoyable than I or II. My rating, in order of best to worst is now: V, III, VI, I, III, II. Not quite up to V, but close. My wife was much more irritated by the inconsistancies than I was...
Lord Satasn Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 You guys are thinking so hard and deep on this that you are failing to use any commen sense. People that say Obi Wan not remembering R2 and the droids..... "I do not remember ever owning a droid"-Obi Wan-A new Hope.... Truth....R2 was ANakins droid, not obi wans, and c3po was built by anakin...obi never owned them...and c3po had his mindwiped....so R2 was probabyl laughing with obi at it all... To the thing about Leaigh and Padme...its so obvious lol.... You guys arent thinking on this one...I had a hard time with it until my friend explained it to me to, so listen...its almost too simple... Leiagh did not know she was adopted...she was talking about bail organas wife, as her real mother....Luke was raised by his uncle yes, but Leaigh didnt know that the organas werent her real parents....even when Luke knew and was asking.... so she remembers Bails wife, who died when she was a young kid....not padme who died at childbirth... There is only one consistancy error, but it doesnt bother me too much its the one about obi wan not knowing about the twins...that was kind of weird since he was the birth unless he just didnt think leaigh could use the force cuz she was a girl or something haha jk jk...
mstormrage Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 its the one about obi wan not knowing about the twins...that was kind of weird since he was the birth unless he just didnt think leaigh could use the force cuz she was a girl or something haha jk jk... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Obi-wan did know about the twins. What he didn't know, until Yoda said it in Ep. V, was that she was another hope. After all, he is the one who broke it to Luke that he had a twin sister.
Lord Satasn Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 "And he didnt create Star Wars" Yes, he did, and your post admits to it. Lucas created it, and other shelped him flesh it out. That sounds very much like he created it. Anyways, I haven't seen E3 yet. I don't go to theatres. That said, iw atched E1 & E2 and as far as I'm concerned they're as good as the originals. People seem to overrate movies they watched when they were 5 or 10 years old. I look forward to watching E3 in about a year as from the sounds of it; it looks to be the best of the 6. Easily. Quite frankly, SW fanboys who whine about SW yet go to watch the movies 20 times make me laugh. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was going to say the exact same thing! He created it and others helped him flesh it out... Tolkien created LOTR and all that stuff in ww1 and didnt get it fleshed out by others...thats why his early works and rough drafts about the creation of the elves and etc. go on and on and on and are sloppy as hell...not very exciting stuff.. I think it's so funny when people say Lucas doesnt know waht Star wars is...lol ITS HIS STORY....U DONT KNOW WHAT STAR WARS IS, let HIM show YOU and then get a LIFE cuz its a movie and u shouldnt get heated over that stuff....maybe when u guys get famous u can start calling shots ;-)
Lord Satasn Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 its the one about obi wan not knowing about the twins...that was kind of weird since he was the birth unless he just didnt think leaigh could use the force cuz she was a girl or something haha jk jk... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Obi-wan did know about the twins. What he didn't know, until Yoda said it in Ep. V, was that she was another hope. After all, he is the one who broke it to Luke that he had a twin sister. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He broke it to luke that he had a twin sister in ROTJ Yoda says there is another in ESB....b4 ROTJ.... Yoda tells obi Obi tells luke next
mstormrage Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 Obi-wan says in ESB, "That boy is our last hope." Yoda replies, "There is another." This is open-ended enough for me to accept that Ben knew all about the twins before Yoda told him, but that he didn't consider Leia to be another hope. At least, that's how I see it...
kirottu Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 Most likely Obi-Wan didn This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
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