tmp Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Pointless hypothetical question: Do you think that if it was Obi standing over Palps (for the sake of expeciancy lets say he fought the same as windu) Anakin would have turned so easily? Am thinking, if it was Obi then either Anakin would actually knock out the emperor to protect the friend from the lighting thingies, or even if he didn't then Obi Wan would've still stayed true to the 'jedi way' and just tried to arrest Palps, giving Anakin no reason to attack like Mace did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bytor Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 "Am thinking, if it was Obi then either Anakin would actually knock out the emperor to protect the friend from the lighting thingies, or even if he didn't then Obi Wan would've still stayed true to the 'jedi way' and just tried to arrest Palps, giving Anakin no reason to attack like Mace did." Exactly! And that's why Palpatine arranged for Kenobi not to be there! All the general grevious stuff was just a distraction so Palpatine could get Anakin on his own. "I tried the most potent Noise Amplification spell once upon a time. Mavellous spell. I could hear the birds speaking to one another in trees over the horizon, I could hear the rustlings as the clouds rubbed against each other in the sky. I could hear the sound a rainbow makes as it arches it's back over the world. Then a dog barked behind me and I burst my left eardrum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random evil guy Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 excactly how did palpatine "arrange" for obi not to be there...? oh, i forgot. palpatine is all powerful and all knowing. he knew the jedi council would chose obi and not anakin to go after grivious. obviously palpatine is god in the star wars movies and he controls everything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bytor Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 excactly how did palpatine "arrange" for obi not to be there...? oh, i forgot. palpatine is all powerful and all knowing. he knew the jedi council would chose obi and not anakin to go after grivious. obviously palpatine is god in the star wars movies and he controls everything... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He sent general Grevios to Upatu knowing that the counci lwould send a Jedi. He even suggested Anakin so the council would say no and send Kenobi. Obviously a tactical thinker! "I tried the most potent Noise Amplification spell once upon a time. Mavellous spell. I could hear the birds speaking to one another in trees over the horizon, I could hear the rustlings as the clouds rubbed against each other in the sky. I could hear the sound a rainbow makes as it arches it's back over the world. Then a dog barked behind me and I burst my left eardrum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowstrider Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 He sent general Grevios to Upatu knowing that the counci lwould send a Jedi.He even suggested Anakin so the council would say no and send Kenobi. Obviously a tactical thinker! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is an example of illogic. Why does a recomendation of Anakin lead to the sending of Obi-Wan in a logical line of reasoning? It doesn't. Irrelevent to who Palpatine recomended they would've sent Obi-Wan, he was the resident general of the council, Mace was responsible for protecting Coruscant while Yoda was sent to Kashyyyk. Kenobi was probably the most experienced of the council whom was not busy with some other assignment. Anakin -> Obi-Wan isn't a logical line of thinking, unless you can explain why the council would arrive at that conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bytor Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 He sent general Grevios to Upatu knowing that the counci lwould send a Jedi.He even suggested Anakin so the council would say no and send Kenobi. Obviously a tactical thinker! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is an example of illogic. Why does a recomendation of Anakin lead to the sending of Obi-Wan in a logical line of reasoning? It doesn't. Irrelevent to who Palpatine recomended they would've sent Obi-Wan, he was the resident general of the council, Mace was responsible for protecting Coruscant while Yoda was sent to Kashyyyk. Kenobi was probably the most experienced of the council whom was not busy with some other assignment. Anakin -> Obi-Wan isn't a logical line of thinking, unless you can explain why the council would arrive at that conclusion. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry let me ellaborate Palpatine knows that the council does not trust Anakin or himself. So he recomends Anakin knowing that the Jedi will be annoyed that he is telling them what to do. In order to show Palpatine that he cannot control the Jedi they say no to Anakin. So they send the next logical person- Kenobi Any clearer? "I tried the most potent Noise Amplification spell once upon a time. Mavellous spell. I could hear the birds speaking to one another in trees over the horizon, I could hear the rustlings as the clouds rubbed against each other in the sky. I could hear the sound a rainbow makes as it arches it's back over the world. Then a dog barked behind me and I burst my left eardrum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random evil guy Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 excactly how did palpatine "arrange" for obi not to be there...? oh, i forgot. palpatine is all powerful and all knowing. he knew the jedi council would chose obi and not anakin to go after grivious. obviously palpatine is god in the star wars movies and he controls everything... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He sent general Grevios to Upatu knowing that the counci lwould send a Jedi. He even suggested Anakin so the council would say no and send Kenobi. Obviously a tactical thinker! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yeah, the council is a bunch of immature kids. tell them one thing, you can be sure they'll do the opposite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarjahurmaaja. Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Bytor, why on earth would they send Anakin instead of Obi-Wan in the first place? That's what you fail to answer. 9/30 -- NEVER FORGET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bytor Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 That's not the point. Palpatine set up the situation with Grevious so the council would send away Kenobi. He suggested Anakin should go in order to guarantee Kenobi was sent. "I tried the most potent Noise Amplification spell once upon a time. Mavellous spell. I could hear the birds speaking to one another in trees over the horizon, I could hear the rustlings as the clouds rubbed against each other in the sky. I could hear the sound a rainbow makes as it arches it's back over the world. Then a dog barked behind me and I burst my left eardrum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmp Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 yeah, the council is a bunch of immature kids. tell them one thing, you can be sure they'll do the opposite... Sadly it's not far from the truth " (Palpatine did play them for fools for years...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarjahurmaaja. Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 "That's not the point." It is if the rest of your theory relies on it to function. It does. 9/30 -- NEVER FORGET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowstrider Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Sorry let me ellaborate Palpatine knows that the council does not trust Anakin or himself. So he recomends Anakin knowing that the Jedi will be annoyed that he is telling them what to do. In order to show Palpatine that he cannot control the Jedi they say no to Anakin. So they send the next logical person- Kenobi Any clearer? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, not really. Irrelevent to who Palpatine recomended they would've sent Obi-Wan, he was the resident general of the council, Mace was responsible for protecting Coruscant while Yoda was sent to Kashyyyk. Kenobi was probably the most experienced of the council whom was not busy with some other assignment. The Anakin recomendation serves ZERO plot purpose, and should've been cut. EDIT: Scratch that, it does serve a plot purpose, but its not "to ensure that Kenobi is sent." It serves to show Anakin that Wrinkles has faith in him where the council does not. Palpatine set up the situation with Grevious so the council would send away Kenobi. This makes sense. He suggested Anakin should go in order to guarantee Kenobi was sent. This does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random evil guy Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 yeah, the council is a bunch of immature kids. tell them one thing, you can be sure they'll do the opposite... Sadly it's not far from the truth " (Palpatine did play them for fools for years...) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> i was being ironic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveilled Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Palpatine did arrange for Kenobi to be sent away, because he fed the council the location of Grievous through Anakin. He suggested Anakin go not because he knew the council would pick Kenobi because he suggested Anakin, but because he knew they were going to send Kenobi anyway, and by suggesting Anakin he could make Anakin distrust the Council further as they would refuse him. EDIT: Umm, basically what Shadowstrider said. Hawk! Eggplant! AWAKEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarjahurmaaja. Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Exactly! 9/30 -- NEVER FORGET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random evil guy Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Palpatine did arrange for Kenobi to be sent away, because he fed the council the location of Grievous through Anakin. He suggested Anakin go not because he knew the council would pick Kenobi because he suggested Anakin, but because he knew they were going to send Kenobi anyway, and by suggesting Anakin he could make Anakin distrust the Council further as they would refuse him. EDIT: Umm, basically what Shadowstrider said. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> excactly. he knew that they would chose obi; it was the obvious choice. he suggested anakin to further fuel his distrust for the council. the council never intented to send anakin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmp Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 i was being ironic... Ahh, sorry about it then ^_^ i usually read the rolleyes icon as if someone is saying the person they're replying to said something silly ^^; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bytor Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Ok! So we all agree that Palpatine arranged for Kenobi to be absent, because he knew that Anakin would not have killed his master like he did to Mace Windu. That was the original point I was trying to put across. "I tried the most potent Noise Amplification spell once upon a time. Mavellous spell. I could hear the birds speaking to one another in trees over the horizon, I could hear the rustlings as the clouds rubbed against each other in the sky. I could hear the sound a rainbow makes as it arches it's back over the world. Then a dog barked behind me and I burst my left eardrum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveilled Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I just had an odd thought. You know how the line "Search your feelings" (or a variation) is said like fifty times in this film? Well, if they used that line from ESB over and over, why not use the line that traditionally goes after it too? And what is that line? "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!" Coincidence? I think not! It would have been better if that particular dialogue went: Vader: Is Padme alright? Sidious: It seems you killed her in your anger. Padme is dead. Vader: That's not true! That's IMPOSSIBLE! Sidious: Search your feelings, you know it to be true! Vader: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! Hawk! Eggplant! AWAKEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bytor Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I just had an odd thought. You know how the line "Search your feelings" (or a variation) is said like fifty times in this film? Well, if they used that line from ESB over and over, why not use the line that traditionally goes after it too? And what is that line? "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!" Coincidence? I think not! It would have been better if that particular dialogue went: Vader: Is Padme alright? Sidious: It seems you killed her in your anger. Padme is dead. Vader: That's not true! That's IMPOSSIBLE! Sidious: Search your feelings, you know it to be true! Vader: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah! Also the Anakin/Padme dialoge that went: "We can rule the galaxy as man and wife!" I'm sure he said something like that.......... "I tried the most potent Noise Amplification spell once upon a time. Mavellous spell. I could hear the birds speaking to one another in trees over the horizon, I could hear the rustlings as the clouds rubbed against each other in the sky. I could hear the sound a rainbow makes as it arches it's back over the world. Then a dog barked behind me and I burst my left eardrum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Flatus Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 all that dialogue is deliberate - either a foreshadowing of the future or something for the fans to point out. As for the NO it was the delivery and sound of it that was silly after all luke says it in the same tone in ESB but it sounds a lot better. Maybe JEJ should have made his voice sound more hoarse or something. I would have liked to see him picking up something and throwing it down a chute like he did to teh emperor in RoTJ and the collapsing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bytor Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 What do you reckon to that epic shot at the end with Owen and Beru staring at the twin suns, while holding Luke? I liked the link to Episode 4, showing Uncs Owen in a simmilar pose to Luke. Instant classic! "I tried the most potent Noise Amplification spell once upon a time. Mavellous spell. I could hear the birds speaking to one another in trees over the horizon, I could hear the rustlings as the clouds rubbed against each other in the sky. I could hear the sound a rainbow makes as it arches it's back over the world. Then a dog barked behind me and I burst my left eardrum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Ok! So we all agree that Palpatine arranged for Kenobi to be absent, because he knew that Anakin would not have killed his master like he did to Mace Windu. That was the original point I was trying to put across. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And you're right. Official novelization written under watchful eye of George Lucas states clearly that Utapau mission was a trap to lure Obi away from his troubled apprentice. Image situation when Yoda and Obi are on Coruscant during Anakin's revelation: arrest squad would look different then: Mace, Obi and Yoda... Paplps would die in great pain. HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Image situation when Yoda and Obi are on Coruscant during Anakin's revelation:arrest squad would look different then: Mace, Obi and Yoda... Paplps would die in great pain. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Damn straight! Heck, throw in Lord Vader at Palps' side and our Jedi triumvirate would still be victorious. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 The only gain from using lame Fisting, Kolar and Seaese instead of Obi and Yoda, is their painful and humiliating deaths. I always hated them. HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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