Did You Agree With The Influence On The Crew?

[Bastilla_Skywalker]

Hello There,

 

Did everyone here agree that it was good that obsidian put influence into the characters to get you to influence them just to get good bits in the game or did you all disagree with it and thought it was pointless?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

It was great.

 

Big improvement over biowares get a level be spoonfed some background approach.

[Aegis]

I don't object to the concept, but I can't say I'm very happy about the implementation. It's just too random. I'd prefer some small quests like in the first game, or at least a more consistent effect from the other quests and actions in the game.

[NeverwinterKnight]

I don't object to the concept, but I can't say I'm very happy about the implementation. It's just too random. I'd prefer some small quests like in the first game, or at least a more consistent effect from the other quests and actions in the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

id prefer a combination of both. i liked the npc party member specific quests from kotor1, and i liked the influence system (or its theory) in kotor2.

 

what id like for kotor3 is a mixture of both, where the party specific side quests are only available once youve gained enough influence with them.

[Ace]

I'd like a mixture.

 

The influence system is great for finding out character's 'dirty secrets' but having some generic dialog with them when you level up (Bioware, KOTOR1 style) that then ties into sidequests you play for influence would also be nice.

 

So I think the two systems are both halves of what could be an even better system for NPCs.

[Simon Appleton]

It was not bad. As Shadow Paladin says, it is better than the "reveal a tidbit per level" formula of KOTOR1 (and NWN OC). That formula was too mechanical and as implemented just violated the "show, don't tell" rule.

 

I agree with Aegis that it was rather too random - especially because some of the payoffs, for the lost Jedi, were very large. I confess when I realised the potential payoffs, I found out on the net how to train Handmaiden and was lucky to have Atton at the right place for his transformation. But I carried the other lost Jedi around with me afterwards in the futile hope of getting influence with them. Maybe you just have to resign yourself to developing a subset of your party in any given game. But if so, what's the point having the hangers-on left in the ship?

 

The influence system did work well with Kreia IMO - in retrospect, my unexpected and inexorable loss of influence with her seemed to set me up well for the main story. I belatedly tried to "use" her to elicit influence - pretending to agree with her - and again that would be a great strategy to ellicit from the player in view of the plot.

 

Definitely a step in the right direction - but maybe needed more in-fighting and interaction with the PC. I felt more involved with Carth and Bastilla in KOTOR than all but Kreia in KOTOR2. The NPCs in KOTOR2 had their moments in terms of dialogue etc but my impression is that they had rather fewer than those in KOTOR1 (not just the Carth and Bastilla - for example, compare Canderous and Mandalore: which do you feel you got to know better in the two games?).

[Ulicus]

I liked the influence system, yeah- the only problem was that if you were playing a character who just *wouldn't* get much influence with someone else, take darksiders and Bao-Dur for example - when a lot of their backstory is pretty central to the plot, especially at the "ending"

 

We should have been spoonfed the stuff that was vital to the plot and been able to get influence for the fluff and Jedi training.

 

So whoever said a mixture of the two was spot on.

[Aegis]

Well, Mandalore is a pretty bad example to be honest. I've barely managed to squeeze a bit of information out of that one (from this game alone, that is), and I have no idea how to get more. Canderous would at least tell you some fairly interesting stories if you asked him.

 

I went easy on the spoilers. It doesn't really say anything, but just in case:

 

HK-47 got quite a lot to say, but I had to work on him quite a lot too. The last tier of dialogue (that I know of) is not that interesting either unless you're homicidal. The rest is worth a look, though.

GO-TO didn't have a lot to say, but what he did say was fairly interesting. I had my suspicion about him before, but I'd recommend getting him to spill his guts.

Mira had something that could've been interesting, had it been developed a bit or something that lead up to it, but as it was, it just felt like it came out of the blue for no particular reason.

Atton was quite okay in the development and interaction department, actually (though I found him lacking as a love interest if you play female). I didn't see it comming, and it felt quite natural, but it was a bit generic. I felt like they tried to hard to make him special (when everyone is special, no one is). And I constantly forgot myself and thought of him as Carth.

Handmaiden was rather boring. There's some stuff about her family towards the end (not much) and some vague hints of romance, but not enough to make her interesting (and certainly nothing to make me overlook her haircut and voice *shudder*).

Visas was not very interesting either. There wasn't much I've found apart from what she tells you right from the start and an awkward, presumably romantic event towards the end that came very suddenly and left me more confused than anything. I liked the voice, though.

Bao-Dur was quite possibly the worst one. He was filled with some sort of generic rage that he barely showed, and suddenly decided that he wanted to be a jedi and that was pretty much it as far as I can tell.

T3 gave me as much personality as I would've expected from an inanimate object going "beep". There was some mildly interesting historical stuff (and I think I missed a dialogue option, I can't seem to find it now). There was something meditation-related you could get that made no sense at all to me as well.

I'll get Hanharr and the Disciple on the next go. I played a bit as female before but I screwed up with the Disciple and didn't bother to get it fixed, and I got Mira instead of Hanharr because, well, he's a big furball for God's sake. The Disciple always distracted me with that odd face of his, though, and I couldn't even imagine him as a love interest for my character.

 

[Ulicus]

Well, Mandalore is a pretty bad example to be honest. I've barely managed to squeeze a bit of information out of that one (from this game alone, that is), and I have no idea how to get more. Canderous would at least tell you some fairly interesting stories if you asked him.

 

I went easy on the spoilers. It doesn't really say anything, but just in case:

 

HK-47 got quite a lot to say, but I had to work on him quite a lot too. The last tier of dialogue (that I know of) is not that interesting either unless you're homicidal. The rest is worth a look, though.

GO-TO didn't have a lot to say, but what he did say was fairly interesting. I had my suspicion about him before, but I'd recommend getting him to spill his guts.

Mira had something that could've been interesting, had it been developed a bit or something that lead up to it, but as it was, it just felt like it came out of the blue for no particular reason.

Atton was quite okay in the development and interaction department, actually (though I found him lacking as a love interest if you play female). I didn't see it comming, and it felt quite natural, but it was a bit generic. I felt like they tried to hard to make him special (when everyone is special, no one is). And I constantly forgot myself and thought of him as Carth.

Handmaiden was rather boring. There's some stuff about her family towards the end (not much) and some vague hints of romance, but not enough to make her interesting (and certainly nothing to make me overlook her haircut and voice *shudder*).

Visas was not very interesting either. There wasn't much I've found apart from what she tells you right from the start and an awkward, presumably romantic event towards the end that came very suddenly and left me more confused than anything. I liked the voice, though.

Bao-Dur was quite possibly the worst one. He was filled with some sort of generic rage that he barely showed, and suddenly decided that he wanted to be a jedi and that was pretty much it as far as I can tell.

T3 gave me as much personality as I would've expected from an inanimate object going "beep". There was some mildly interesting historical stuff (and I think I missed a dialogue option, I can't seem to find it now). There was something meditation-related you could get that made no sense at all to me as well.

I'll get Hanharr and the Disciple on the next go. I played a bit as female before but I screwed up with the Disciple and didn't bother to get it fixed, and I got Mira instead of Hanharr because, well, he's a big furball for God's sake. The Disciple always distracted me with that odd face of his, though, and I couldn't even imagine him as a love interest for my character.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

T3 was FANTASTIC. He went from being the thing I never spoke to in KotOR 1 that I considered to be a cheap R2 rip off to being one hell of an awesome droid that I cared about and felt sorry for.

 

I think Obsidian should be most proud of the fact that they made T3 an actual character that you could care about as opposed to the portable computer slicer that he was before.... plus adding some ripped R2 sounds just gave him that little more personality.

 

:D

 

I loved T3 in this game, even my Sith Lord loved him.

[Aegis]

You quote my entire post and reply to three lines from it?

[AlanC9]

I wonder.... was it a deliberate decision to make you have to choose which characters to gain influence with in a particular game? It does increase replayability, in the sense that you pretty much have to play the game more than once to get everyone's story.

[Aegis]

I don't think you do, actually. Well, except if you want to hear both Hanharr and Mira as you obviously can't get both in the same game. I've mapped a few critical points, and I'm quite certain that you can get all the influence you need by talking to them and performing some actions at certain key points, if you play your cards right.

[Matt7895]

I found it rather annoying, actually - I prefer melee combat over ranged combat because it is more exciting to watch, and easier gameplay. Therefore I never had HK-47 or Mira in my party, and as a result, I could not gain influence with them to reveal their extra conversation options.

[Aegis]

I think you can get all you need from Mira just by talking to her. I'm not sure if persuade/charisma have an effect (I didn't notice it), but I just got it without any outside help. You might need one more point if persuade/charisma does affect it, though.

I haven't managed to talk HK-47 into opening up, though. He required two or three influence points in-game as well before his speaker started broadcasting.

[Matt7895]

I think you can get all you need from Mira just by talking to her. I'm not sure if persuade/charisma have an effect (I didn't notice it), but I just got it without any outside help. You might need one more point if persuade/charisma does affect it, though.

I haven't managed to talk HK-47 into opening up, though. He required two or three influence points in-game as well before his speaker started broadcasting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well I can't go into exact detail without posting spoilers, but I could speak with Mira about her past easy enough...it was just the 'extra' stuff I didnt have access to, if you know what I mean....

[Aegis]

 

The jedi training

?

 

I got that too just by talking. Didn't even leave Nar Shadaa, just went back to the ship, went through the appropriate dialogue for each tier and got it overwith within a couple of minutes.

[Volourn]

"It was not bad. As Shadow Paladin says, it is better than the "reveal a tidbit per level" formula of KOTOR1 (and NWN OC). That formula was too mechanical and as implemented just violated the "show, don't tell" rule."

 

Eh? There was more than just level that got npcs talking in KOTOR1? Why are people making rumours up? The area or situation you were in, and your responses to the npcs also had an effect on what your npc had to say. Level had little to do with it..

[Simon Appleton]

"It was not bad. As Shadow Paladin says, it is better than the "reveal a tidbit per level" formula of KOTOR1 (and NWN OC). That formula was too mechanical and as implemented just violated the "show, don't tell" rule."

 

Eh? There was more than just level that got npcs talking in KOTOR1? Why are people making rumours up? The area or situation you were in,  and your responses to the npcs also had an effect on what your npc had to say. Level had little to do with it..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, what sticks in my mind are all the NPC quest logs "Perhaps you should talk more about this to X when you have levelled up" or words to that effect. It lowered immersion and made things seem very stilted. Admittedly NWN OC was more blatant - I'd hire in all NPCs after levelling to progress their stories, but KOTOR was scarcely less mechanical.

 

And yes, of course there was more than just levelling that got NPCs talking. But levelling seemed central to the talking that was part of their "quests". In both KOTOR1 and NWN OC these quests were nicely written, but that is my other main problem - their stories were written, not acted out in the gameplay. Show, don't tell.

[stoo]

Hello There,

 

Did everyone here agree that it was good that obsidian put influence into the characters to get you to influence them just to get good bits in the game or did you all disagree with it and thought it was pointless?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Although far from perfect, I really appreciated the influence system. It added to the immersive experience, and in the end I grew really attached to some of my companions. At various times in the game, I've spent entire HOURS talking to every single party member, trying to get the most info out of them, about themselves, their backgrounds, the general background, recend events and history, and those few PC bonus.

 

Next, some visual/numeric (like the Ls/DS scale) indicator would be great, to know how much influence we got on a given character, and possibly to see how they see each other (daydreaming now: and this should also affect their behaviour in case they are both in the party -eg: refusing to be talk openly, or even refusing to join the party, or keeping at a distance one from each other-).

[cewekeds]

I wish things changed more how NPC acted to you. If your darkside and done everything to make Disciple to hate he would stand up to you. I would like the option to piss a NPC of so much they leave or try to fight me.

[LdyShayna]

And yes, of course there was more than just levelling that got NPCs talking. But levelling seemed central to the talking that was part of their "quests". In both KOTOR1 and NWN OC these quests were nicely written, but that is my other main problem - their stories were written, not acted out in the gameplay. Show, don't tell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Possibly, but it also helped them control the pacing a bit more. I found the influence system, though more organic perhaps, very hit and miss as far as allowing for interaction with NPCs. I would hit large portions of the game where I would not be able to interact with the NPCs any longer at all, either because I had already maxed out their influence and stories very quickly ( Disciple) or the evnt that I needed to trigger more dialog wa snot hit (Atton).

 

I liked the idea of gaining influence wihth your companions, but also like the more rgular pacing that the level/storybased triggers give you. A combination, somehow, of the two systems would be great.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I wish things changed more how NPC acted to you. If your darkside and done everything to make Disciple to hate he would stand up to you. I would like the option to piss a NPC of so much they leave or try to fight me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The game isnt really intended to work like that. The characters will ultimately follow the path you choose regardless. It says as much at the begining.

 

While you will get comments as you go either one way or the other and it will cause you to lose influence in some cases. Ultimately your will will supplant that of the NPC and the will follow you regardless.

[cewekeds]

People either love him/her or hate him. -Vrook

 

I don't think GOTO or Disciple would let the Exile destroy the Rep. which you can.

[Volourn]

"Well, what sticks in my mind are all the NPC quest logs "Perhaps you should talk more about this to X when you have levelled up""

 

Eh. That never happened in KOTOR. At least i surely don't remember it; and that's soemthing so glaring it be hard to miss. I do know that soem things were depenent on level; but not much.

 

That was the NWN OC which I agree was/is a bad design decision. heck, BIo agrees that it was not the ideal way to do things - hence how that was destroyed for both SOU and HOTU..

[Jeremiah]

I like the concept of influence. Just that having DS aligned characters still staying goodie two shoes in their reactions to evil events can really ruin the experience LOL (still have yet to do so). Guess I am too much of a goodie two shoes myself.