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Aurora

Cut Ending Stuff

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...Cripes. After reading through what was cut I'm horribly tempted to run out and buy the bloody PC version(I'm weak, you see. I had to get the Xbox version first), if only to listen to the sound samples/read through the dialog.tlk file myself.

 

The scenes between Atton/Exile and Disciple/Atton... wow. Hell, all the bits Aurora mentioned could have made for an incredible finale. I'm torn, though, I really am. I don't know about the majority of people here, but I tend to get pretty attached to characters and seeing them killed off in such a way would have me cursing the writers for doing so to begin with, yet praise them for creating something that ends on a powerful note. Bleargh.

 

You are wrong.  I didn't mod my game and I played that ending and it is beautifully written.

 

Actually, Plooby... Iseo is correct. The only way to kill Bastila/die with Carth at the Starforge as a DS female is to download the mod that restores those dialogs. The "official" DS female romance ending forces you (or you tell Bastila to) kill Carth. I loaded up a save I made before fighting Malak and checked, with and without the mod, just to make sure to avoid having to put my foot in my mouth later. I'm nitpicky, I know. Chuck a couple bricks my way if you like, I won't take offense. :D

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No, it's actually one step above PST.

 

In PST all your companions defended you at the end. It seems here there are mutilple scenarios which could have played out according your influence with each of the members of your party. So there could have been betrayal within the ranks of your own party, or it could have them working altogether. Granted, there are similarities to PST where the Exile must go alone into battle knowing that a safe return is impossible, but more of an awesome thing isn't necessarily bad in my book.

 

This adds a whole new replayability to the game. I for one would go back again and again just to see those endings.

 

Though I must agree that it would have been a nightmare for the writers of a would be K3 trying to somehow manage all those stories and possible endings, but as another poster has said, it wouldn't be too hard to implement a system like BG2, bringing back characters that you thought were dead. Though it could detract from the game, and possibly give less meaning to the sacrifices made in K2...had those endings been actually implemented.

 

It seems like the entire end sequence on M5 had your party members thrown from the crash initially and separated. Mira, Disicple/Handmaiden, Visas and Atton. All the members you could train to be a Jedi now that I think of it. Obviously they all meet up with Kreia and are tested in some way leading to jealous betrayal or meeting up later on as a team having conquered their inner fears. Mira's encounter with Hanharr was just one the sequences where we would have taken control of those characters.

 

As for the Bao-dur, Mandalore, T3 and HK47, we can only speculate. Bao Dur I think was originally meant to die or sacrifice himself, which makes the whole hologram thing more understandable. I'm guessing Mandalore goes back to strengthen the Mandalorians while HK and T3 remain on the Ebon Hawk. Who do you think fixes the Ebon Hawk and pilots it after is crashed against boulders?

 

I haven't played DS and all the endings shown here seem like LS endings. Maybe there's a entire part for a DS ending hidden away in the files as well.

 

Those endings make the roles of Revan and the Exile a lot more significant. Revan purged the Jedi and the Exile begins to rebuild the Jedi from his own teachings. Making a stronger more competent generation who aren't blinded by their own fears and arrogance, if LS of course. Don't know about DS.

 

Didn't Black Isle Studios release a new downloadable expansion pack for Icewind Dale titled Trials of the Luremaster, after they received so many complaints about Heart of Winter? I wonder if the former members of BIS would be willing to do that again for K2. They'd probably need the ok from LA though. I wonder how it worked for ToTL?

 

Anyways I doubt that ever happening, since LA giving the ok would mean that they admit they did indeed release a game before it was finished and were just looking for more profits. And we know how stuckup huge companies are right?

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Actually, Plooby... Iseo is correct. The only way to kill Bastila/die with Carth at the Starforge as a DS female is to download the mod that restores those dialogs. The "official" DS female romance ending forces you (or you tell Bastila to) kill Carth. I loaded up a save I made before fighting Malak and checked, with and without the mod, just to make sure to avoid having to put my foot in my mouth later. I'm nitpicky, I know. Chuck a couple bricks my way if you like, I won't take offense. :D

 

Then I don't get it. I truly didn't mod my game and I played a redeemed DS female and I was not forced to kill Carth and I got all those squee-licious dialogs! :ermm:

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Regarding the Dustil Onasi Scene-my guess would be that this isn't intended to be part of the ending, but rather a vision seen in the Sith Tomb on Korriban. This is based off of the last few lines from the material supplied by Aurora, which are choices the player has when dealing with the Republic soldiers in another vision taking place in the Sith Tomb. My guess would be that originally the plan was for Dustil to have been a Jedi who went insane and killed his companions, and that you would talk to him as one of your visions in the Tomb.

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Thanks for separating all that, HighPriest. I think you may be right about the placement of the Atton-casual-talk at the very ending - good God, to end the game with light banter? That's a twist.

 

Yes, the cut stuff makes the game even more similar to PST. Big deal. It makes the game *better* and gives an actual ending, rather than just tossing you out alone without a clue about where your companions went, except for Mira who appears somewhere and just sorta runs off.

 

Given that the game was released still buggy and still jagged in terms of story, I don't have much hope for these endings being added. I won't make judgements about whether or not they care about the game, but it looks like they've fully moved on to NWN2.

 

Trials of the Luremaster was added because of complaints that HoW was too short, not because of story issues. The "Ascension" mod added to ToB is a better comparison, but it mostly added combat and some "new" story things, not an actual, um, ending, since the game already had one.

 

So... anyone know how to program? I don't have access to my computer right now, but there are more dialogues in there. There might still not be enough included to make sense, but we might be able to put together a coherent story if we have T3 explaining things to the Exile through a dialogue - even something as simple as "oh no your party members all got knocked off the ship" - since T3 just uses beeps and stuff, we can re-use his sound files from other parts of the game.

 

Or maybe they all knock the Exile out and run ahead to fight Kreia, because they know that Kreia intends to destroy her, and they leave behind T3 to tell part of the story, and part of the message (maybe personalized depending on male/female and who's romanced) on a datapad. They tackle Kreia, she knocks them back and leaves them for dead or almost dead.

 

If LS female, Atton is the only one who gets back up, because that's his thing and because of luuuuuuuuuurve, and Kreia rolls her eyes and lets Sion have him. He's apparently supposed to look pretty awful when the Exile reaches him (after Sion fight? before? after works better since it'd be hard to add things to the Sion dialogue) and I wonder if there's a special one-armed bloody Atton model still in the files somewhere. After his speech, he either dies, or can be healed if you have one of the force healing powers but still falls unconscious from the near-deathness and can't go on with the Exile. Then after you fight Kreia, maybe add an option to say "screw you, I'm not ditching my friends even if the True Sith are going to eat their souls" so that Atton can have his end speech. The end speech doesn't seem like it'd work very well for DSers, maybe there's another one in there somewhere. Play the end video of the Hawk taking off, or just cut to credits.

 

If LS male, after the endgame Handmaiden or Visas crawl to their feet, and uh, you have to tell them that you're abandoning them forever. But then what video to play? sigh.

 

If DS female, I guess Atton runs in to Disciple somewhere on the planet, attacks him, and they both die? In my regular game when we fought Sith before boarding the Ravager, he briefly freaked out and said he was overwhelmed with the urge to kill, or such. There's also apparently stuff in the dialogue files about him willingly betraying you to Kreia - I don't know if that's dependent on gender. Cut to scene of Kreia laughing evilly, or such.

 

If DS male, Handmaiden attacks Visas, both die, Kreia laughs.


I am following my fish.

 

A temporary home for stranded ML'ers

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All this makes me sad. I haven't actually gotten to play TSL yet (I haven't got it for PC yet and I don't own an X-Box). I read all this awesome dialogue and find it's not in a game I've been excited about for over a year!!! Why? Should I even buy the game, knowing that my expectations are not going to be met? Is there no way to Mod these scenes in?? Whoever can do it, should be in charge of a KOTOR 3.

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well, I wonder if they implemented a variation on this -- the event on Korriban when your party members (illusions) take on Kreia, and you decide who to side with.

 

That Sion and Atton thing though....!

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This is all great material, and it is a pity it wasn't included, for whatever reason. I'm not going to sit here throwing around blame, but whoever is responsible: for shame. This would have made the ending infinitely better -- as it is, it is only a bit better than the infamous HL2 ending, covering nothng about your companions (are they dead on the ship? G0-T0 survived. What about th others?). I only played through the dark side (Sith Lord -- I love the morally ambiguous presentation, where the light side isn't necessarily good and the dark side isn't always evil), and the ending was not only empty but self contradictory with the title of the movie I got.

 

Going back to PS:T, the game has an open-ended enough resolution for potential sequals without sacrificing said resolution to the dark demons of anti-climax.

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Its possible that the whole Kreia scene was part if a vision like on Korriban, but I doubt it.

 

Its a shame this wasn't included. I could tell the game was rushed, but it was stil excellent and screamed of the Black Isle touch, right up til the last few areas. I was content with the ending, but it could have been so much better.

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That ending will be left as dialogue, i'm afraid. With no SDK released, it's almost impossible to re-do the whole thing.


"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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It'd be great if this stuff could be implemented as a mod, but without the animations I imagine it'd be nearly impossible (unless there are some *really* expert animators out there).

 

And even then, I imagine LucasArts or Obsidian could block it on copyright grounds...

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Oddly enough, I've found some files which have Atris in place of Kreia when the rest of the team confronts her. I imagine this has to do with the rumour [or has it been confirmed?] that Atris was supposed to become Darth Traya depending on how you played the game. Just how many endings DID they cut out of the final project?

 

OT: I've also found one rather interesting line of Atton's.

 

"I'm Atton. I actually wasn't supposed to make it into the final game, but I was created at the last minute. Blame my agent. I was actually created for a spinoff of Jedi Knight but... I don't want to talk about what happened there."

 

Any idea what that one's about?

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I just finished TSL today (took me 5 days to plow through it, but then I can get a bit obsessive when I start playing RPGs...) and as enjoyable as it was, I have to say that I was wondering what the heck was going on with the characters & the NPC storylines (it didn't seem like there were any coherent ones to me). I'm still wondering what was supposed to happen with G0T0 & Bao-Dur's remote on Malachor, nevermind the almost non-existent romance... Speaking of the which, all I got were two-three scenes about the "romance", one where Atton appeared to be jealous of the Disciple & another where he was talking to Bao-Dur about the PC (T3 laughing at him was amusing though!). On to other weird things: Bao-Dur just stopped talking to me completely after Nar Shaadaa I think (or maybe it was on NS), I mean no dialogue options whatsoever! The missing dialogue and content explain much about the general weirdness of some of the NPC interactions, but now I feel somewhat depressed, and the ending (such as it was) rings even more hollow. Sigh. ;)

 

P.S. I wish they'd mentioned what happened to Jolee (finding Bindo's Band(s) does not really do it for me!).

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Though I must agree that it would have been a nightmare for the writers of a would be K3 trying to somehow manage all those stories and possible endings, but as another poster has said, it wouldn't be too hard to implement a system like BG2, bringing back characters that you thought were dead. Though it could detract from the game, and possibly give less meaning to the sacrifices made in K2...had those endings been actually implemented.

 

Perhaps the best possible way of dealing with it would be to have a majority of the characters simply disappear from the story the way Mission, Zaalbar, Juhani and Jolee did.

 

As for the Bao-dur, Mandalore, T3 and HK47, we can only speculate. Bao Dur I think was originally meant to die or sacrifice himself, which makes the whole hologram thing more understandable. I'm guessing Mandalore goes back to strengthen the Mandalorians while HK and T3 remain on the Ebon Hawk. Who do you think fixes the Ebon Hawk and pilots it after is crashed against boulders?

 

I think it's implied very strongly that Bao-Dur is killed in the crash. The wording of his message to the remote suggests that it was recorded after he found out he'd be going to Malachor, and that it was meant to be played if he was killed or otherwise unable to give the orders to his remote personally.

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Whats really crazy to me is how many people where completely satisfied with a half finished game


People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.

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"I'm Atton. I actually wasn't supposed to make it into the final game, but I was created at the last minute. Blame my agent. I was actually created for a spinoff of Jedi Knight but... I don't want to talk about what happened there."

 

Any idea what that one's about?

 

 

Beat it once on Light, and once on Dark, and thats one of the lines Atton will say when you meet him for the first time.

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wow, that last scene where Atton comments about Peragous and then fighting the Sith is sooo cute.

To the other stuff it all could have been so great and Obsidian just left it on the editing room floor, that is the most depressing part. They could have had such a better game and they threw it all away just for a Xmas release and a crappy product

Oh Bioware, please save us!

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It should be like a mark of blantant fanboiism if you really liked the game, especially inlight of this, forever cast down from the artistic role call


People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.

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About the Atton torture/death scene...

 

Player:

1.  I think we all saved each other.... Visas, the Handmaiden, Kreia. And you, Atton.

2.  I think we were all supposed to save each other.... Visas, the Handmaiden, Kreia. And you, Atton.

3.  You did, Atton. You fought bravely, and I could not ask for a greater sacrifice.

If this is supposed to take place for a Female only, then why is the Handmaiden mentioned here?

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It should be like a mark of blantant fanboiism if you really liked the game, especially inlight of this, forever cast down from the artistic role call

 

I wouldn't quite put it like, but it certainly cheapens the ending we did recieve after seeing these deleted(or never implemented) scenes.

 

Maybe we'll get lucky and they will release a 'content' patch for it.

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I think it's implied very strongly that Bao-Dur is killed in the crash. The wording of his message to the remote suggests that it was recorded after he found out he'd be going to Malachor, and that it was meant to be played if he was killed or otherwise unable to give the orders to his remote personally.

 

You know... this is a very interesting take on that scene. It makes a lot of sense to me.

 

Wow... what a shame that they cut all of this out. If they had included this into the ending, this would have truly been a stellar game. Although I'm kinda glad that the Dustil bit was cut. That would just be too depressing.

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About the Atton torture/death scene...

 

Player:

1.  I think we all saved each other.... Visas, the Handmaiden, Kreia. And you, Atton.

2.  I think we were all supposed to save each other.... Visas, the Handmaiden, Kreia. And you, Atton.

3.  You did, Atton. You fought bravely, and I could not ask for a greater sacrifice.

If this is supposed to take place for a Female only, then why is the Handmaiden mentioned here?

 

It could be something as simple as the ending not being finished properly, so things like this were not fixed. Or, it could be that the decision to make Disciple and Handmaiden gender specific was not taken until later in development, after this ending had been written.


Hawk! Eggplant! AWAKEN!

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wow, that last scene where To the other stuff it all could have been so great and Obsidian just left it on the editing room floor, that is the most depressing part. They could have had such a better game and they threw it all away just for a Xmas release and a crappy product

Oh Bioware, please save us!

please just stop. LucasArts wanted an Xmas release so the game got an Xmas release. Done and done. Obsidian got a schedule which LA short changed and they had to make cuts.

 

Bioware most likely would have been in just as much of a bind in such a short dev cycle.

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