SunTzu Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 I havent played TSL so im not gonna say anything bad about it but I've heard that obsidian didnt exactly do a good as a job as bioware.... GO BIOWARE!!! I never experienced a single bug on KOTOR 1 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Neither did i. Totally bug free for me, on the same rig as im running now.
Darth Sun_Tzu Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 I havent played TSL so im not gonna say anything bad about it but I've heard that obsidian didnt exactly do a good as a job as bioware.... GO BIOWARE!!! I never experienced a single bug on KOTOR 1 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Neither did i. Totally bug free for me, on the same rig as im running now. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think i have a fan! :D As far as bugs went, they did not bother me. Another great idea by the people who brought you beer milkshakes! "I don't see a problem...then again, SW isn't my life, so what do I know...." - some who makes 27.8 post per day on a SW forum!
DSLuke Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 I also had a bug free expirience.. :cool: The game IMHO was way better than the first one. Well done Obsidian And by the light of the moon He prays for their beauty not doom
Caelib Posted February 13, 2005 Author Posted February 13, 2005 I also had a bug free expirience.. :cool: The game IMHO was way better than the first one. Well done Obsidian <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Uh-huh ... 2000 posts on the Obsidian forums ... another fanboi. If you cannot be objective, don't say anything at all. If you didn't see a single bug, it was because you are either a) lying, or b) not perceptive enough to notice the gaping problems.
Darth Sun_Tzu Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 I also had a bug free expirience.. :cool: The game IMHO was way better than the first one. Well done Obsidian <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Uh-huh ... 2000 posts on the Obsidian forums ... another fanboi. If you cannot be objective, don't say anything at all. If you didn't see a single bug, it was because you are either a) lying, or b) not perceptive enough to notice the gaping problems. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He played through with out sleeping so he probably did not notice. I saw a few but they did not really bother me. And i'm just as hyped about how great this game is. Another great idea by the people who brought you beer milkshakes! "I don't see a problem...then again, SW isn't my life, so what do I know...." - some who makes 27.8 post per day on a SW forum!
DarthPanda Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 ATTN: Everyone defending Obsidian Entertainment There is absolutely no excuse for releasing a game before it was ready. Period. It is the developer's responsibility as much as the publisher to ensure the quality of a product. I am a software developer and you can be sure as sh!t that my deliverables are thoroughly tested before they ship, regardless of the deadline. NO EXCUSES! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Congratulations, now you're just plain ignorant. Don't make assumptions about another company's situation because you're in related field. Are you a game programmer? Is the company you work for brand new? Have you read the contract between LucasArts and Obsidian? Are you telepathic? They may or may not have an excuse, but guess what? YOU DON'T KNOW. Complain all you want, there's no fault in that, but stop making stupid statement like OE spent "all their time on the Xbox" or that they have "absolutely no excuse". My opinion on this matter: yeah, Obsidian screwed up, LucasArts wasn't the developer, so the presence of the bugs isn't their fault - but LA did gimp OE's development time by two months, so the lack of QA testing is. That's all I'll have to say in this thread, because I just realized I'm probably talking to a wall.
DSLuke Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 I also had a bug free expirience.. :cool: The game IMHO was way better than the first one. Well done Obsidian <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Uh-huh ... 2000 posts on the Obsidian forums ... another fanboi. If you cannot be objective, don't say anything at all. If you didn't see a single bug, it was because you are either a) lying, or b) not perceptive enough to notice the gaping problems. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well the game crashed only once. (after I was playing 12 hours non-stop) so I can't really blame the game. As for other bugs I had ONCE a problem and my character wasn't moving. But that was solved by save/load. Nothing else. Overall it was a game I really enjoyed. And by the light of the moon He prays for their beauty not doom
ASk Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 What I can agree with: - Crashes: numerous, some look like memory corruption (i.e accessing 0xfffffff0), some look like null dereferencing. Happen sometimes immediately after area transitions, happen during use of force powers - crashed twice when using Force Storm. I noticed that entering an area with Master Speed on, is more likely to cause the game to crash. -Horrible framerate at times: Dantooine. On my system, I experience single digit framerate (and the associated problems - instant movement across the map, etc) when looking from one end of the area (i.e the landing pad) to another (i.e the Kilrath cave area). Now, one might argue that I have a weak PC, however, my PC has solid specs (A64 3200+, 1GB ram, X800 Pro), and the framerate is in single digits regardless of settings - tried at 640x480 with everything off and 1024x768 with everything on, 6xAA, 16xAF. Also, one time, Dantooine area refused to load completely, leaving me on black screen with mouse pointer. I was able to fix that by hacking the saved area name, loading the savegame, after a short time it loaded the Ebon Hawk interior and after that it was fine. Also, a lot of the exploits from the xbox version that are described in the FAQs are in the PC version as well - i.e the infinite experience exploits on Korriban and Nar Shaddaa (haven't used them, but verified that they are there - I was too powerful by the end of the game anyway, it took 2 rounds to finish the endgame villain)
><FISH'> Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 infinite exp wouldnt really matter because enemies adapt to your power
Caelib Posted February 13, 2005 Author Posted February 13, 2005 ATTN: Everyone defending Obsidian Entertainment There is absolutely no excuse for releasing a game before it was ready. Period. It is the developer's responsibility as much as the publisher to ensure the quality of a product. I am a software developer and you can be sure as sh!t that my deliverables are thoroughly tested before they ship, regardless of the deadline. NO EXCUSES! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Congratulations, now you're just plain ignorant. Don't make assumptions about another company's situation because you're in related field. Are you a game programmer? Is the company you work for brand new? Have you read the contract between LucasArts and Obsidian? Are you telepathic? They may or may not have an excuse, but guess what? YOU DON'T KNOW. Complain all you want, there's no fault in that, but stop making stupid statement like OE spent "all their time on the Xbox" or that they have "absolutely no excuse". My opinion on this matter: yeah, Obsidian screwed up, LucasArts wasn't the developer, so the presence of the bugs isn't their fault - but LA did gimp OE's development time by two months, so the lack of QA testing is. That's all I'll have to say in this thread, because I just realized I'm probably talking to a wall. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's for reply to my comment because you are the TEXTBOOK EXAMPLE of what I'm talking about!
Meshugger Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 ATTN: Everyone defending Obsidian Entertainment There is absolutely no excuse for releasing a game before it was ready. Period. It is the developer's responsibility as much as the publisher to ensure the quality of a product. I am a software developer and you can be sure as sh!t that my deliverables are thoroughly tested before they ship, regardless of the deadline. NO EXCUSES! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, as an engineer in Information Technology i don't agree with you. You should know that a regular software or application is a much more controlled enviroment than a game. You can't compare the two, unless you're into 3D-simulation. Ever wondered why games generally have more bugs than regular software? "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
dmcccdmn Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 IGN: "Playing through the entire story, we've had the game crash about four or five times." Gamespy: "Unfortunately, this great story is embedded in a mess of bugs that detract from the experience." Gamespot: "A disappointing presentation hurts The Sith Lords, especially on first impression. We encountered a number of minor issues during the course of the game, such as characters who'd occasionally pass through walls (no, it's not a Force power) or dialogue options that would unexpectedly throw us back into the same dialogue loop. The game also sporadically crashed to the desktop in transition between areas, and our computer-controlled companions were prone to some bone-headed tactics when left to their own devices. And it doesn't really look any better than the original, but since it tries to get away with a few new graphical effects, its frame rate is prone to taking nosedives on all but the fastest systems." This is my 1st post. I would not be on this forum if it wasn't for the annoying bugs I've encountered. For a start-up developer, Obsidian is showing incredibly lack of appreciation and overall respect for its customers. Every crash I've encountered, every lack of responses on the forum from Obsidian staffs just adds more and more to my impression that Obsidian is no more than a Bioware-wannabe. Obsidian has much to learn from companies like Bioware and Blizzard.
Fionavar Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 Just a wee bit of a reminder, please feel free to add constructive criticism and feedback, but please refrain from the temptation of the DarkSide to flame one another ... policing for the Big Green can be rather taxing FLoSD.ObE The universe is change; your life is what our thoughts make it - Marcus Aurelius (161)
Belazor Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 What I can agree with: - Crashes: numerous, some look like memory corruption (i.e accessing 0xfffffff0), some look like null dereferencing. Happen sometimes immediately after area transitions, happen during use of force powers - crashed twice when using Force Storm. I noticed that entering an area with Master Speed on, is more likely to cause the game to crash. -Horrible framerate at times: Dantooine. On my system, I experience single digit framerate (and the associated problems - instant movement across the map, etc) when looking from one end of the area (i.e the landing pad) to another (i.e the Kilrath cave area). Now, one might argue that I have a weak PC, however, my PC has solid specs (A64 3200+, 1GB ram, X800 Pro), and the framerate is in single digits regardless of settings - tried at 640x480 with everything off and 1024x768 with everything on, 6xAA, 16xAF. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have encountered both similar issues.EVERY time theres a screen transition on the outside of Dantooine, the game lags like hell and I get that map skip bug if I try to move. My fix? Stand still for 5 secs, then its OK again. Other issues I have encountered: * On JA Sublevel on Dantooine, Handmaiden didn't run anymore, she was sliding across the screen making horrible noises. * The footsteps sounds disappear in Ebon Hawk * The vid with the assassin in red talking to the dude on the cover, was pixellated to hell. It looked as if it was running on 640x480 on a P1 with 16 MB onboard graphics. * All videos got some pixellation. Here's my fix list for the above, in same order: * Quick Save, Quick Reload. Check. * I dont spend *that* much time on EH anyways... * This one video is not the entire game, although I would have liked to watch it in better quality * Meh, this doesn't bother me much. One could ask, if I knew of all the bugs before buying the game, would I still buy it? The answer is HELL YES. This game rocks, and I don't really give a piss about who developed it (so the first person to call me a Obsidian fanboy will be flamed back to last year). A game can show up perfect in all tests, yet it has bugs. As an example, if any of you has been to a vBulletin board that has the RPG Integration Hack installed, I am the developer of this. The version currently released, I tested to death for 1 month before releasing it. It was tested on multiple forums, all with different other modifications installed. Yet, the first 7 pages of the release thread over at vBulletin.org is nothing but bugs and me saying sorry for all the bugs, and posting that fixes has been released. Although the number of bugs has decreased alot, theres still some, which is part the reason Im working on the next version. Sure, you may say that I did not test it as well as a game should be tested because I were not paid, and while this may be true, it is also true that just as impossible as it is to test a forum modification mixed with all other forum mods, it is impossible to test a game with all different hardware combinations. As for the reason why I am convinced that hardware is what comes to play, is just because there's people who say they did not experience bugs. True, quest bugs may not be noticed in users fault, because they did not try to explore the quest, or performed it correctly to not trigger a bug, but crashes such as crashing to desktop with "Memory could not be 'read'" errors are not due to such flaws by the end-user. Therefore, if it was PURELY a software bug, then it should occur on all forms of hardware, always, 100%. This, as we all know, is not the case. Hence, it may be poorer coding in relation to a certain hardware combination. I hope I proved my point objectively, because this was my intent. PS: Here's my comp specs and game settings: Computer: Motherboard: Intel Culver City D925XCV Socket 775 CPU: Intel Pentium 4E, 3200 MHz (16 x 200) 1 MB L2 Cache, Prescott RAM: 4x Crucial DDR-2 512 MB CL3 SDRAM Graphics: nVIDIA GeForce 6800 PCI-E (256 MB) Storage: 2x Maxtor 6B300S0 (300 GB, 7200 RPM, Serial-ATA/150) Sound: Realtek HD Audio rear output Game: Texture Quality: High Anti-Aliasing: 4 Sample AA Anisotropy: 16x Frame Buffer Effects: On Soft Shadows: On V-Sync: On Resolution: 1280x1024 @ 60 Hz Refresh Rate Shadows: On Grass: On (To the best of my memory) //peace
Stargate: 2000 Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 That's for reply to my comment because you are the TEXTBOOK EXAMPLE of what I'm talking about! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Okay, like the board addict that I am, I'm going to break what I last said and post again Textbook example of what? A fanboi? I'm pointing out that you're in no position to judge Obsidian because you're not in the same field, but I also made it a point to express that I recognize Obsidian screwed up on the product. I just don't believe that sole responsibility sits on Obsidian's shoulders, which is what all of your complaints have been suggesting, and that LucasArts shares quite a bit of it as well. Honestly, I'm just irritated when people choose to rant against developers without half a word against publishers. I know there are a lot of cases where this is well-deserved, but the simple truth is none of us can know without being part of the gaming industry. And no, being an application programmer does not qualify you as a game programmer <{POST_SNAPBACK}> your right there are three groups that are at fault for the way the game turned out and they are as follows OE for the way the game was made, and the quality of the game on certain systems. LA for rushing the game production, and for putting un-goddly restriction on OE from the get go. and finally the fan base (oh I am so going to get flamed for just saying that) we b!tched and moaned about wanting the game sooner and thus causing the time table to moved up two whole months (though this game shouldn't have been released until dec 2005, that way all the bugs and what not would have been fixed and we would have gotten the full game the devs intended us to have), now I know there is little to no chance that we played a dirrect part in LA choosing to move the time table up but for the most part it is what a lot of people wanted. even though the large majority of the people wanting the game still had to wait until feb anyway. "The only difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits!" - Albert Einstein. "It's better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!" "You can try to kill me, you'd fail!, but you can try!" - Revan. "When you have exhausted all other possibilities whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes (a.k.a. Sir Arthur Conan Dole) "A lack of planning on your part, does not constitute an emergency on my part"
Fionavar Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 Ok I am going to try this ONE more time. Please do not flame or respond to previous baiting. If that is to occur, I will issue an official warning and place the member on one week of moderated posting. The choice is yours. Respectfully, Fionavar The universe is change; your life is what our thoughts make it - Marcus Aurelius (161)
TentamusDarkblade Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 KOTOR2 PC = 84% KOTOR2 Xbox = 86% With scores in the mid-eighties on GameRankings.com, i'd say that Obsidian got it right with KOTOR 2.
Laozi Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 Its hard to take those ratings too seriously, considering the company is also trying to get you to buy the game. Also, if you're just going to get on this board and say "I don't know what people are talking about, I've played the game and experienced no bugs at all." Just because you yourself haven't experienced the bug, doesn't mean they don't exist. I bought KOTOR 2 for XboX and my first playthrough I too wondered what people were talking about when they mentioned bugs, since then I've encountered numerous ones. NeoRevan, I think your post really sums up what alot of people should be saying instead of their usual don't blame Obsidian or stop flaming. Alot of people would buy the game regardless and thats fine, just don't go ape**** when someone is pissed for getting a game that barely works. People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.
Caelib Posted February 13, 2005 Author Posted February 13, 2005 KOTOR2 PC = 84%KOTOR2 Xbox = 86% With scores in the mid-eighties on GameRankings.com, i'd say that Obsidian got it right with KOTOR 2. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Gameplay isn't the issue here, it's the technical difficulties. There are many instances in the game, for example, where entire dialogue sequences are skipped -- this looks like it has more to do with buggy code rather than end-user-specific configuration as I never saw this problem with the original game.
TentamusDarkblade Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 have any of you opened your manuals and looked at the QA credits? You'll find them right under the heading "LucasArts, a division of LucasFilms". if you want to keep flipping out and flaming about this games lack of polish, go do it on the LA forums.
TentamusDarkblade Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 Its hard to take those ratings too seriously, considering the company is also trying to get you to buy the game. umm..you do realize that GameRankings.com just averages all the individual rankings that a game recieves from various independent sources? Alot of game devs and publishers use the numbers off of GameRankings and similar sites because of this lack of bias.
Stargate: 2000 Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 have any of you opened your manuals and looked at the QA credits? You'll find them right under the heading "LucasArts, a division of LucasFilms". if you want to keep flipping out and flaming about this games lack of polish, go do it on the LA forums. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> but who did the polishing of the game? it wasn't LA it was OE so this is the place to complain beause they were the ones who either fixed or were suppost to fix the problems found by the OA team not LA. "The only difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits!" - Albert Einstein. "It's better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!" "You can try to kill me, you'd fail!, but you can try!" - Revan. "When you have exhausted all other possibilities whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes (a.k.a. Sir Arthur Conan Dole) "A lack of planning on your part, does not constitute an emergency on my part"
Caelib Posted February 14, 2005 Author Posted February 14, 2005 have any of you opened your manuals and looked at the QA credits? You'll find them right under the heading "LucasArts, a division of LucasFilms". if you want to keep flipping out and flaming about this games lack of polish, go do it on the LA forums. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why are you defending OE so much? They did make a great game content-wise but they completely dropped the ball in terms of overall product quality. THEY ARE AT FAULT AS MUCH AS LUCASARTS! Ever heard the expression ... sh*t rolls downhill?
theguy Posted February 14, 2005 Posted February 14, 2005 have any of you opened your manuals and looked at the QA credits? You'll find them right under the heading "LucasArts, a division of LucasFilms". if you want to keep flipping out and flaming about this games lack of polish, go do it on the LA forums. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why are you defending OE so much? They did make a great game content-wise but they completely dropped the ball in terms of overall product quality. THEY ARE AT FAULT AS MUCH AS LUCASARTS! Ever heard the expression ... sh*t rolls downhill? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> OE: 18 months. Bioware: 3 years. Lucasfilms: Lucasarts, we need to make money. Lucasarts: I think its a great idea to release it before Christmas even though Obsidian's not done yet.
Caelib Posted February 14, 2005 Author Posted February 14, 2005 OE: 18 months. Bioware: 3 years. Lucasfilms: Lucasarts, we need to make money. Lucasarts: I think its a great idea to release it before Christmas even though Obsidian's not done yet. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Considering OE has a working engine that only needed slight modifications to the interface ... 18 months is plenty of time. The game's developer should feel more responsibility for the overall quality of the product than the publisher. Bioware understands this concept and that is why they are the #1 RPG developer in the world. If you take shortcuts, it gets you nowhere -- you're definitely not going to see any "Game of the Year" nominations because of the technical shortcomings ... sorry but the truth hurts sometimes.
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