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Caelib

Congratulations on Screwing it up Obsidian

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I thought this thread died long ago. Whys it back? Some people love TSL others hated it. Problem solved. Please move to the door on your right. :thumbsup:


On official Sith business.

 

Politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed.

Mao Tse-Tung

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People have a right to voice their frustrations with the game HERE ... that's the POINT of this forum and this thread. If you don't like, then stop reading it!

 

Dex ... I noticed those two "loose ends" with the cinematics as well. It looks like there might have been content pulled (or movies) relating to those. The GOTO thing just didn't make a ton of sense to me anyway.

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I never said to stop expressing yourself. I realize what tese forums are for but this has gone on for a while. I think its time for it too sink back in obscurity. Only to be rived three months later for some unknown reason. Lol. ;)


On official Sith business.

 

Politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed.

Mao Tse-Tung

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Bye-bye


People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.

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People have a right to voice their frustrations with the game HERE ... that's the POINT of this forum and this thread.  If you don't like, then stop reading it!

 

Dex ... I noticed those two "loose ends" with the cinematics as well.  It looks like there might have been content pulled (or movies) relating to those.  The GOTO thing just didn't make a ton of sense to me anyway.

if you can freely ignore reason and continue to harp on about stupid, asinine things then why shouldn't other folks have the right to voice their views on how stupid and asinine this thread is.

 

LA rushed the game. Done deal. It sucks, the game was hurt by it, and it's unlikely LA will own up to it. deal with it. Beating your chest and pointing fingers at OE is both a waste of time, but it's also just plain stupid.

 

If you want to actually fix things, then go help out in the tech forums by posting clear and accurate descriptions of issue - with repro steps and expected results - or answer questions to help others work around known issues.

 

my belief is that you don't do these things because you really don't care about anything being/getting better. You just want to make it known that you've been wronged and how dare they wrong you.

 

It's stupid, making this whole thread stupid by proxy.

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Thanks you LA and Obsidian for ruining what could of been a great game in my opinion. I for one will not be supporting any of your products or purchasing them anytime in future if there isnt a patch to address the many bugs, quest and plot issueses including the ending... The apparent greed of your two companies has led you down the path to the darkside I only hope you see the light realize that you have a chance to set things, right least to me, by FIXING THE GAME....... please >_< I would like nothing more that to

play TSL and feel it was a complete finished game. If not no worries I know two game companies that will not be recieving any of my business in the future.

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>_<

On official Sith business.

 

Politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed.

Mao Tse-Tung

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I'm guessing you have the PC version? I can't debate that since I don't own it for PC. However it doesn't seem to be tht bad for xbox. Maybe for once xbox gets the advantage....  :D

 

But I must agree that if you don't test a game, you can't expect it to actually be 'good'. If I wasn't such a fan of Star Wars and Kotor 1, I probably wouldn't have got it. I mean simple things like spelling errors are just not excusable.

 

Oh no, I'm assuming you don't play PC Games, because I saw my buddy playing KotOR2 on his xbox and I gotta say, the framerate was sloppy at best. You have plenty of small errors, they just aren't glaring like the bugs in the PC version are... Crashes every 15 minutes, etc.

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I don't think that Obsidian screwed it up, I don't think they had enough time to deal not only with technical issues but game content as well.

 

There are no spoilers here, so don't worry. It's all general stuff.

 

First of all, the plot is quite poor. There is definately a plot, but it is left unexplained and, as I am right near the final area of the game (can't go further due to a crash bug), remains unexplained. It lacks a true Star Wars feel. It actually takes itself a bit too seriously. The game is much darker and grittier than KotOR and, therefore, it lacks the mystique of the latter. KotOR had great environments, interesting characters, a fairly simple plot with a good twist in it, and great gameplay and quests. KotOR II lacks great environments (Nar Shaddaa, while a good quest planet, is boring and makes me not want to restart the game; there is no Tatooine, which every Star Wars game should have; most of the areas are dark mechanical tunnels) and the bad-guys are absolutely awful. They could have been great, especially our masked friend, but things, again, are left unclarified and the bad-guys just fizzle out - not a bang, but a wimper, as they say.

 

Onderon is a pleasant expecption to the rule, as they main quest there is clear, epic and exciting. Can't say the same for the mess that is Nar Shaddaa or Peragus or Telos.

 

Now, after all that complaining, I did enjoy the game immensely until it broke. I played it for far too long in a couple of stretches, but always found myself secretly disappointed. Nothing had that great Star Wars feel. The main characters struggle is too obscure, the NPC's are good but - and I feel weird saying this - they are not black and white enough. This brings me back to the game taking itself too seriously. There is some serious characterisation here that ultimately fails. I can't feel comfortable with any character, all of them are so damn grey. I enjoy the traitor character and the character-with-secrets as much as anybody else, but in a Star Wars game depth and contradiction of character actually detracts.

 

Also, the villains are too far in the background and, when they finally are revealed, it is a great anti-climax. I was left furrowing my brow many a time.

Overall, the game just feels like it was a great attempt that, while fun in it's way and certainly worth playing (if it works!), failed as a Star Wars game.

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What experience? Playing the Harry Potter game? Nope I don't think too many people here would play that game :rolleyes:

 

Did you even read what I wrote? I meant (which I thought was clear in my post) that there might be viruses on people's PCs and that is what is causing the problem. The viruses I had on my PC kept crashing my games (and yes I play Harry Potter games I feel sorry for you if you think that is <begin sarcasm> such a horrible crime<end sarcasm>) It also eventually froze up my entire computer to the poinst that I had to take it down to the shop to fix. Maybe you should try to help people instead of posting useless drivel that I have seen in your posts in the short time I have been on this forum. :angry:


"They might not call you a Jedi anymore, but believe me, you are. It's not the sort of thing that you just stop being. You're stuck with it, just like you're stuck being the General." ~Bao-Dur, Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords

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I read up to the 1st 7 pages of this post and just wanted to post my experience with the PC version of KOTOR2. Before I begin I have to say that I do not blame the original poster for being angry however I do not think Obsidian is the only one to blame.

 

Just as a background, I am a software engineer (yes really... I work on simulators) so I am going to take the engineers perspective on top of my years of RPG gaming.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

KOTOR2 was rushed. There is no doubt about it. You can tell by the querky quest system and the obvious bugs everywhere ingame and I have to be honest, when it comes to RPG's I have never in my 15 years of RPG/Strategy gaming history ever seen a game with more loose ends. Here is what I saw...

 

Many dialog options should have been removed at certain points but never were. (completed quests, choices made, etc)

 

There were 8!!! quests that couldn

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My personal view of this game from a technical standpoint is it should not have been released by neither Obsidian nor Lucas Arts. It needed at least 2-4 more weeks of testing and patching and/or a lower initial price tag.

Nice to see somebody actually put it in words intelligently. I might not agree on the 2-4 weeks, thinking more like 2-4 months, but otherwise... :devil:


“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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I'd advise Obsidian to stop making PC games altogether. Really it's not worth the hassle. Half the people are totally clueless about the cause of bugs/crashes and automatically blame the game.

 

Can anyone honestly say they ever played a bug free PC game? Never had one crash ?

 

I'm sure KOTOR II is no exception, but just because person A experiences a slew of errors dosnt mean that person B will.

 

No ammount of testing is really going to solve it because it's completely unfeasable to test on every possible confguration.

 

So stick to consoles and let the PC owners cry themselves to sleep because they are no longer getting any games.


I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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See, when I get a new PC game I am expecting bugs. I also do a little research before I buy the game. I try to find out what engine the game is using for possible glitches with my hardware. Common folks, it is pretty damn easy to figure out that the base engine of KotOR 2 had past issues with ATI cards. If you weren't expecting problems then you are an idiot.

 

What matters most is not how little or how many bugs the game has on release. At least not for me. Only thing that matters to me is how well the game is supported after it is released with patches. That is one of the reasons why I do not play console games. You can't patch a console game. However a developer can only support their game if the publisher lets them support it. It looks like LA isn't letting Obsidian to do so.

 

Now, I have been on these forums a good long time and on the Black isle forums before that. I gotten to know Feargus, Chris A, and other members well enough to know they do not go out of their way to make crappy games. They do the best they can with the time they have. That is the main thing here. TIME. Lucas Arts had unrealistic expectations about the release of KotOR 2 and for what is it worth Obsidian did their best to fulfill this obligation. Lucas Arts got their game. LA only needs to allow Obsidian to fully support their game with not only Technical patch fixes but also Content fixes.

 

I know that certain people of Obsidian want to do a full content restore patch. The desire is there and only needs the publisher's support. Without Lucas Arts support however, Obsidian can't do a thing.

 

After all, it was Lucas Arts job to QA the game. They dropped the ball.

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I can't believe people are still trashing Obsidian...

 

LA was the one who wanted a december release, making obsidian rush the ending and cutting a lot of quest and maps.

LA was the one who was responsible for the QA.

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How many posts are there like this?! I'm not even going to bother reading all the other pages; I'm just going to explain my main problem with these posts:

 

THERE ARE TOO MANY OF THEM.

 

Yes, people are angry. Collaborate in a single post. Obsidian did their best in the time period they were given, live with that. And the bugs... just deal with them. Save before you go into a new area seperated by a loading screen, use Quicksave... whatever. The easiest thing is just to put up with it. If you ignore the ending and the bugs, KotOR II is a pretty good game.


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This is the first time I see this thread and since it's about 15 pages long I'm not gonna bother reading it all. However, I gotta say this: Let it go already !!

 

Oh my, I know how shocked, and.. and .. betrayed you must feel, but get over it, yeah, the game's a little rushed, so what ? haven't you ever played any games before ? alot of them get rushed, I take it you never played Freelancer have you ?

 

The gaming industry is a business, that means they gotta have it on time, if you were in they're shoes you'd be rushing it as bad as they are, maybe worse, just to stay in the black.

 

Just stop wailing about it, it's annoying, it won't change anything, instead, get to work on a way to slow down time so it's not christmas as fast, maybe then you won't get that many rushed games :wub: .

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If I were a START-UP COMPANY and this was my first major title, I wouldn't let LucasArts push me around and fail to provide the resources to properly test the game.

 

Such a naive response. If you were a start-up company, you'd have no choice but to let Lucasarts push you around, since you're dealing with their IP. Only the well established companies don't have to worry about being pushed around.

 

If you tried to stick up to your publisher, the publisher would just pull the plug on your project. Whoops, no more game for you. Guess that wasn't such a good idea after all.

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Right on, Alanschu.

 

Sure you would have your principles intact but you would be out of business and broke within a week, Caelib. That makes real good sense. Yessiree! :wub:

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If I were a START-UP COMPANY and this was my first major title, I wouldn't let LucasArts push me around and fail to provide the resources to properly test the game.

 

Such a naive response. If you were a start-up company, you'd have no choice but to let Lucasarts push you around, since you're dealing with their IP. Only the well established companies don't have to worry about being pushed around.

 

If you tried to stick up to your publisher, the publisher would just pull the plug on your project. Whoops, no more game for you. Guess that wasn't such a good idea after all.

 

Amen - And How...well said.

Tsel :wub:

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There are two things "wrong" with the software industry.

 

1. All games have a critical point.After which you make more money putting it on the market than you do working on it some more. I wonder how many copies DNF4 would have to sell...

 

2. There is no luxury market for games. If I want a good bottle of wine I can go and pay


I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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