Which is more of a true RPG?

[Darque]

Would you quit using that term :angry:

[EnderAndrew]

There is no real clear definition for a cRPG. I've seen people argue for ages what is and what isn't an RPG. After playing GTA:SA, I was pleasantly shocked with how much I could affect the world around me.

 

I can even "tag" graffiti over someone else's graffiti to try and convert gang territory.

 

Diablo is called an RPG. GTA:SA isn't called an RPG by any means. I just think one could argue that GTA:SA has more RPG elements.

 

Am I suggeting that GTA:SA is an RPG, or am I suggesting that Diablo isn't an RPG?

 

I'm not. I'm posing the question to you rather than lecturing myself.

[romeo_longsword]

There is no real clear definition for a cRPG.  I've seen people argue for ages what is and what isn't an RPG.  After playing GTA:SA, I was pleasantly shocked with how much I could affect the world around me.

 

I can even "tag" graffiti over someone else's graffiti to try and convert gang territory.

 

Diablo is called an RPG.  GTA:SA isn't called an RPG by any means.  I just think one could argue that GTA:SA has more RPG elements.

 

Am I suggeting that GTA:SA is an RPG, or am I suggesting that Diablo isn't an RPG?

 

I'm not.  I'm posing the question to you rather than lecturing myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I enjoy this debate, I was expecting reply in such quality.

 

Would you quit using that term  :angry:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What is wrong with this? I thought its a representation of some narrow minded people who expect other role-players to act and behave in a certain way and quick to judge wrong in other people etc etc. Its quicker to use THAT term than to say, "narrow minded people who expect other role-players to act and behave in a certain way and quick to judge wrong in other people etc etc".

 

I must say I personally have seen these "narrow minded people who expect other role-players to act and behave in a certain way and quick to judge wrong in other people etc etc" spoiled which were wonderful RP situations, and have caused much unhappiness among the players.

 

Anyway, endless stories to be told, I rather they go home and play amoung themselves.

[EnderAndrew]

Facist has similiar connotations without being nearly as offensive to some people. Or you can just say "pain in the a$$". I know I'm one.

[Darque]

"narrow minded people who expect other role-players to act and behave in a certain way and quick to judge wrong in other people etc etc".

 

For some reason, I find this "term" coming from you to be pretty ironic.

 

I mean you've been pretty quick to judge, among other things.

[romeo_longsword]

"narrow minded people who expect other role-players to act and behave in a certain way and quick to judge wrong in other people etc etc".

 

For some reason, I find this "term" coming from you to be pretty ironic.

 

I mean you've been pretty quick to judge, among other things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It is, if you look at it, and then apply it to your own personal way. Meaning that, you MIGHT have taken whatever I have said personally. Which is fair enough, but trust me, I dont want you to be unhappy.

 

I am sure quick to judge in this asspect, I am aware I am very defensive when there is a slight suggestion that these are players supporting the boarding school, power managment style of role-playing game. As this reflect very much my personal experience of these hostile RP nazie, as I have said, many stories to be told reguarding to that asspect, may be if there is another thread, I would tell you how other people claimed to be role-players while they are just using the term to cover up their power desiring personality. And thats just one of the many asspects of how I feel these RP nazie are negative.

[Darque]

As long as you realize it, all is well

 

As a side note: It's usually better to judge people on what they do and not compare them to what others do :D

 

Anyway, I think it's time to drop it and move on discussions are far too much fun

[EnderAndrew]

You get to have sex in GTA:SA. Can you do that in Diablo?

[Llyranor]

You get to have sex in GTA:SA.  Can you do that in Diablo?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This answers the thread question. You can close it now.

[Lilac Benjamine]

Both and Neither are RPG's.

 

Just like there is old R'n'B and new R'n'B and they both sound completely different, there are also two kinds of RPG.

You get to have sex in GTA:SA.  Can you do that in Diablo?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can have sex in Fallout too. It's better in real life though.

[EnderAndrew]

I'm confused. Fallout is better in real life?

 

I thought Fallout meant the world was ending.

[mkreku]

Which were the missions in GTA:SA that you could complete in several different ways? I only managed to either complete them (in one particular way) or fail them (in a billion ways).

[Diogo Ribeiro]

While I haven't played it, I've heard several things about San Andreas and I feel it is much closer to an RPG than Diablo has ever been.

[Hell Kitty]

Which were the missions in GTA:SA that you could complete in several different ways? I only managed to either complete them (in one particular way) or fail them (in a billion ways).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I remember in the original GTA, one of the first missions pointed out that you could solve missions in different ways, and congratulates you when you kill the guy you just made a deal with to get your money back. That was the only mission is the entire series that offered and alternate solution. Whenever I tried anything else it usually ends in failure.

 

Anyway, I'm happy calling Diablo an action/RPG and GTA:SA an action/adventure. GTA:SA has much, much more of what I would look for in a perfect RPG than Diablo, but it's also lacking a lot and it's parts are rather simplified.

[Baneblade]

Neither.

 

Both games are C-R-A-P !!!!

[Kitch]

I'm going to go with GTA:SA because James Woods was a voice actor. And there was also much more varied gameplay.

[213374U]

I'm going to go with GTA:SA because James Woods was a voice actor.

Um, yeah. James Woods as a voice actor definitely ensures the game is a RPG. But then again, any reason you can think of is enough to support that anything is more of a RPG than Diablo. )

[EnderAndrew]

What's your checklist for what defines an RPG?

[Judge Hades]

My Checklist for a RPG.

 

Character Creation: I need to be able to create my character in some way. I dictate his or her skills, his or her abilities, and possibly his or her general appearance.

 

Character Development: I am not talking story aspects here, but actually having the character gain experience and power which increases his or her skills and abilities during gameplay.

 

Success and Failure are Character Dependent: The actions in which the player does succeed or fails based on the character's skills and abilities and not the players.

 

Simulated Dice Rolls: There needs to be a certain level of randomness and uncertainty.

 

Story Driven Interactions: The character should be able to talk to NPCs, gain information, develop in story, and they such. Interactions like this are key in proper story telling.

 

These are things that are just off the top of my head. If I think of more I'll post them.

[EnderAndrew]

I'd say both Diablo and GTA:SA make 4 out of those 5. Sad, but true.

[Judge Hades]

There is no significant dialog in Diablo to count for number 5. Also most of the Diablo's actions is based off how fast and how often you press the button. More player based reaction than character based reaction. So it misses on 3. Haven't played Diablo enough to determine if it has dice rolls or not, beyond damage, but it might have number 4 secured. Due to the limitations of character creation I have to give it a .5 in the first catagory.

 

2.5 out of 5, is rather piss poor in my opinion, but a game needs all 5 for me to consider it a real RPG.

[Darque]

My Checklist for a RPG.

 

Character Creation:  I need to be able to create my character in some way.  I dictate his or her skills, his or her abilities, and possibly his or her general appearance.

Diablo does not really have this.

Character Development:  I am not talking story aspects here, but actually having the character gain experience and power which increases his or her skills and abilities during gameplay.

Diablo has this.

Success and Failure  are Character Dependent:  The actions in which the player does succeed or fails based on the character's skills and abilities and not the players.

Diablo has this

Simulated Dice Rolls:  There needs to be a certain level of randomness and uncertainty.

Diablo has this

Story Driven Interactions:  The character should be able to talk to NPCs, gain information, develop in story, and they such.  Interactions like this are key in proper story telling.

Diablo has this

These are things that are just off the top of my head.  If I think of more I'll post them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Things aren't looking good for Kitty Cthulu

[EnderAndrew]

Character Creation:  I need to be able to create my character in some way.  I dictate his or her skills, his or her abilities, and possibly his or her general appearance.

This is missing from GTA to an extent. You don't create your character right at the outset. But you do determine what clothes to wear, what hair style and tattoos to wear. You determine equipment, and style of play. And there are tons of styles of play in GTA.

Character Development:  I am not talking story aspects here, but actually having the character gain experience and power which increases his or her skills and abilities during gameplay.

You gain maximum health, strength, stamina, etc. in game. You gain skills in weapons, cars, planes, boats and bikes. You gain sex appeal, reputation, etc.

Success and Failure  are Character Dependent:  The actions in which the player does succeed or fails based on the character's skills and abilities and not the players.

In GTA:SA, you can auto-lock onto a target. Twitchy combat is lessened. Your ability to shoot someone is as simple as making a check against your pistol skill.

Simulated Dice Rolls:  There needs to be a certain level of randomness and uncertainty.

See above.

Story Driven Interactions:  The character should be able to talk to NPCs, gain information, develop in story, and they such.  Interactions like this are key in proper story telling.

You choose which gangs to alienate. You choose which optional missions to do, and for whom. GTA:SA is the first game in the GTA series where you get to choose positive/negative responses to NPC dialogue in the game. There is a plot, and serious voice actors behind it.

[Darque]

At the rate things are going we're gonna need a crashcart for Kitty Cthulu :D

[EnderAndrew]

Did I mention that your clothing/gang colors/hair style/tattoo choices affect your stats in gang reputation and sex appeal?