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kumquatq3

Influence system, can it be modified for the PC?

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In THIS, very lite spoilerish, thread in the Gen forum it talks about how the "influence system" does not cause a NPCs preferences to change.

 

Meaning, if I got Miss Snow White Jedi Lady to turn to the DS, she would still prefer I do LS actions....or I lose influence. Meaning, she likes to see senerios play out the same way, regardless if she is LS or DS, crushing (for me) what I thought was going to be the best part of the "influence system". It also seems that the special abilities of the Jedi Master and Sith Lord, the extra "influence" attribute, is essentially almost worthless now, as I understand it. As bringing someone to the DS or LS only does so in name and for what force powers they get.

 

My reaction in that thread:

 

I've mostly stayed away from the forums for fear of spoilers, but I saw this thread on the main boards the other day and have been following it, and I feel the need to comment.

 

If all this is the case, then it is a ridiculously poor oversight and I can only hope it is modified for the PC version. Considering the devs were pushing the new NPC interaction as the new "thing" in K2, I am shocked and dissapointed to hear how apparently trivial it is. It's K1, except some NPCs will help you less due to your actions. Amazing. 

 

It sure seems that the influence system is there to do nothing more than force you to replay the game to try out each NPC.

 

What I'm hoping for is that something can be altered to change this. Tho I doubt it's possible, I assume it would require new dialogue to be recorded, etc....

 

Forget about extra content, lets fix this if you can.

 

EDIT: I like this comment by Vol as well:

 

Like one person points out, it seems the PC is the puppet in KOTOR2 while the npcs are the Puppet Masters since you basically have to kiss thier behinds. It seems to me, they are the ones with influence over your behaviour.

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I doubt you'd see this modified in the PC version. I'm betting this is a MAJOR chunk of coding and would need an extensive overhaul to "fix" it.


"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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While I can see some logic behind doing it the way it is now, I really wish it was different. Hey, maybe Chris (or whoever was/were responsible) just mistyped some triggers and whatnot, or maybe the code for those triggers was just forgotten to implement for the Xbox and it'll be all fixed and running like we would want it to run on PC?


9/30 -- NEVER FORGET!

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Perhaps...but I agree with GhostOfAnakin. There must be a large section of code that's behind the influence system and it will take a lot of time to fix it. And even if it's not that way, I doubt that the devs will chage this since the Xbox version is already out which meaning that there is no way for the devs to fix this in the console.

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Really, it depends on the character. A character can perceive themselves as being "Lightside", and endorse actions as such, but they might have actually slipped to the Darkside due to their motivations or for similar reasons. People with high standards often have to walk a fine line between doing good and being a self-righteous hypocrite.

 

But for some characters it does seem inappropriate.

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If influence was designed to work this way it was a poor decision to say the least. It seems to have no tangible effect on alignment at all.

 

Maybe the devs realized this would mean alot more work? There would need to be extra dialog for each NPC and triggers for a light or dark shift. That could also cause problems too. NPCs might alternate between good and evil with a single choice. One minute good, the next evil, then back to good. however, if most NPCs are immune to dramatic alignment shifts the problem is negated somewhat.

 

It's certainly a missed opportunity tho. I was looking forward to turning a goody two-shoes into the epitome of evil. :-

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It's sad if they don't fix it... it'd kinda make the system pointless right?

 

Help us Obi-wan Akari.. you're our only hope...

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Well... for them to fix something, they would have to admit it was broken. And unless a major programming glitch has occured the system must be working as intended. Which is unfortunate.

 

Influence has replaced "so and so wants to talk..." as a means of getting to know NPCs. Other than that, it doesn't seem to do a whole lot.

 

I'm amazed that a LS character turned DS would still act like a lightsider. >_<

 

At least in Kotor the NPCs were true to their alignment, even Bastila when she turns dark.

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It's sad if they don't fix it... it'd kinda make the system pointless right?

 

Help us Obi-wan Akari.. you're our only hope...

 

I suddenly picture Darque in that Princess Leia slave girl outfit in Jabba's palace. :wub:


"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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Well... for them to fix something, they would have to admit it was broken. And unless a major programming glitch has occured the system must be working as intended. Which is unfortunate.

 

You have to wonder if they were given enough time to do the system right, because their not retarded, they must have seen this.

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For the love of whatever you find holy, stop with the "given enough time" thing, like Obsidian had no control. They had to sign the contract too. Lucas Arts didn't put a gun to their collective head and say WORK! It goes by mutual consent so if they didn't hold out for a contract that allowed them to do a decent job, it is their fault too.

 

It really seems that what the devs said about features and fixes has mostly evaporated too. I'm definitely waiting for reviews and the tech support forum before I get the PC version now......

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For the love of whatever you find holy, stop with the "given enough time" thing, like Obsidian had no control.  They had to sign the contract too.  Lucas Arts didn't put a gun to their collective head and say WORK!  It goes by mutual consent so if they didn't hold out for a contract that allowed them to do a decent job, it is their fault too.

 

 

Well, I didn't particularly mean to imply otherwise, sorry if you thought I did. If you read my above post, I don't think you would assume that I'm here to give Obsidian a free ride on this one.

 

That being said, how much control does Obsidian have if they start getting near the end of the game and find the time frame they have doesn't meet what needs to be done? These things do happen and usually do on most large games. Pushing a game up doesn't usually happen. I have to assume that their hands are legally tied for the most part, if that is the case. This doesn't remove all fault from their side of the table, but it makes it understandable.

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It's a bad position to be in, but it is completely obvious from just observing LA's behavior in the last few years that this would happen, so to not take some measures against it, aggressively negotiate, or whatever, and to sign up anyway means they are just as culpable as LA. They wanted to have big high-profile first game and were willing the sacrifice the actual game and the quality for that, so they have to live with the consequences, which are going to be a lot of lost credibility and trust that will hurt them more in the long run than these quick profits will help. If you think that's unfair, look at the people who paid 50 bucks to have the thing up and die on them. Now that's not fair.

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For the love of whatever you find holy, stop with the "given enough time" thing, like Obsidian had no control.  They had to sign the contract too.  Lucas Arts didn't put a gun to their collective head and say WORK!  It goes by mutual consent so if they didn't hold out for a contract that allowed them to do a decent job, it is their fault too.

 

It really seems that what the devs said about features and fixes has mostly evaporated too.  I'm definitely waiting for reviews and the tech support forum before I get the PC version now......

 

Nothing is mutual, this whole project was governed by LA. That means if you didn't like the story that Obsidian made and you blame it on them, it's partly LA's fault too because Obsidian has to get the green light from them. LA gave them a set release date when the game was due and they had to be done by then.

 

"It really seems that what the devs said about features and fixes has mostly evaporated too."

 

Probably because they weren't given enough time :rolleyes:" .

 

I'm diggin' the influence sysem so far. It is kinda a pain to wait for something major to happen to get to talk to someone but that's how it was in the first game. I think the system was supposed to work this way, but it is disappointing to have atton halfway down the dark spectrum (his face is starting to look like mine) and still talk about how Kreia is turning me to the darkside. But hey, we can't have everything.

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Seems to me that both parties are to blame for problems with the product, although LA, being the ones in charge of setting a release date, which was quite possibly not known by Obsidian when they'd signed the contract, ought to be held a bit more accountable than the developers.

 

Then again...I bear a grude towards all forms of big business, despite their field or past actions...So I might be a little biased :).


I had thought that some of nature's journeymen had made men and not made them well, for they imitated humanity so abominably. - Book of Counted Sorrows

 

'Cause I won't know the man that kills me

and I don't know these men I kill

but we all wind up on the same side

'cause ain't none of us doin' god's will.

- Everlast

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I suddenly picture Darque in that Princess Leia slave girl outfit in Jabba's palace.  :wub:

Just wait for the game..you won't see Darque but... :blink:

 

I'm diggin' the influence sysem so far. It is kinda a pain to wait for something major to happen to get to talk to someone but that's how it was in the first game. I think the system was supposed to work this way, but it is disappointing to have atton halfway down the dark spectrum (his face is starting to look like mine) and still talk about how Kreia is turning me to the darkside. But hey, we can't have everything.

It was also funny when Atton is commenting on my features when he was looking just as bad himself :lol:

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I don't think you guys really understand what the light side/dark side are, and how the influence system works, if this is a problem.

 

Take a step back and think about it for a second.

 

Lets say Knight1 wants to save people. Normally Knight1 would applaud you for donating gold to poor or chasing off thugs who were mugging someone. Slowly, through your influence, they begin to slip to the darkside.

 

They're not going to completely do a 180 and applaud you for aiding muggers then killing the muggers and taking the loot. It would be subtle, something like killing the muggers instead of just chasing them off.

 

I have no problem with how the influence system works now. In life you could never, over the course of a few monthes, make someone shift in personality so much that they turn from a good sumaritan to a ruthless serial killer, or vice versa.

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The influence system seems pretty weak comapred to what it was supposedly meant to be. The Influence System was one of the changes I was most looking forward to. Fromw aht i've seen, you have as much influence on the KOTOR2 npcs as you do the KOTOR1 npcs - the only differences is the KOTOR2 npcs do a 'fake" dark/light slider slide. That is plain silly, and a total waste of effort if it is how it works.

 

If a previous Light Sider who helps little ladies is turned dark and still helps little old ladies and doesn't really compalin about it; that's really sad.

 

Like I said in the other thread; it seems that it is the NPCs who influence the PC; not the other way around. They are the Pupper Master; we are the Puppet.

 

R00fles!

 

 

"The system isn't perfect, but I still think it's preferable over not affecting the NPCs at all."

 

Aye, so it's no change from KOTOR1 then where you can also effect your NPCs. Impressive.

 

 

As for whose to blame; in this case it's obviously Obsidian since the Influence System is supposedly their baby. If epople are gonan give credit to Obsidian for the good stuff they did for the game (which I';m sure exist as it seem like it'll be a fun game); they surely deserve the blame for things ther erred on.

 

Meh.


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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