Awareness in K2

[Judge Hades]

There is no way to repair that flaw because that flaw is inherent to the rules system that is used. In order to fix that flaw they would have to rewrite the rules system which LA would not allow because they would want to keep their tie in with the Star Wars d20 System game.

[Azazel005]

I love this debate, it's such a riot.

 

I hold KOTOR in a very high regard, despite its ease being a little disappointing.

 

I am too old to be as hardcore as I once was but I still like a challenge. I still wouldn't classify myself as a casual gamre though and I enjoy the work done with the original KOTOR, I don't want to be a non-Jedi class and I damn sure dont want to see a spanning hurling techy take out a light saber wielding sith, I dont care how cleverly and deeply he is role played, flexibility and open endeness is one thing, but thats fairly dull comic storytelling.

 

I like seeing awareness being more useful, I often took is as a skill becuase of Role Playing choices, I liked my Jedi to be aware, nice to see that it will maybe be a bit more useful.

[Judge Hades]

This thread is about awareness and new stuff for the Jedi's in the conversations...incase u forgot what thread u were on.....so lets get back on the REAL topic...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You mean the topic was derailed in like page 2 of 9 of which you played a major role?

 

Sure...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hey, don't use logic on him. He can't handle logic.

[Planar Jedi]

That is right. My god you peolple remind me of Nur Ab Sal and Bastilla polls.. chill out

[213374U]

It seems senseless fanboyism beats reason every time around here. *sigh*

[Stargate: 2000]

There is no way to repair that flaw because that flaw is inherent to the rules system that is used.  In order to fix that flaw they would have to rewrite the rules system which LA would not allow because they would want to keep their tie in with the Star Wars d20 System game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just currious here and maybe someone could answer, if LA is trying to keep the ties to the Starwars D20 (of which I know nothing really) couldn't they just update the rule set to include the modifications that are needed to re-balance the jedi classes, so that during a game like KOTOR they will play out differently? I know its kind of a simple question but wouldn't that solve the problem to atleast some degree?

[Craftsman]

These added features should add much more depth.

[Kdy-worker 1138]

I would just like to add to the people who hasen't played any D20 star wars roleplaying,that they are kidding themselves if they belive that only the Jedi charecters are worthwhile or powerfull,Grantet a jedi can do a lot of things but so can the rest of the charecters (Fringer,scoundels and soforth),some of them are actually far better suitet to most situations than a jedi,A fringer or a scoundle can handle almost any situation with skill and guile, a soilder excells in combat (better than a jedi most of the time) and none of them has to follow some mumblejumbled code of conduct.

Remember that the star wars universe is far more than the Glowrod guys

[213374U]

I would just like to add to the people who hasen't played any D20 star wars roleplaying,that they are kidding themselves if they belive that only the Jedi charecters are worthwhile or powerfull,Grantet a jedi can do a lot of things but so can the rest of the charecters (Fringer,scoundels and soforth),some of them are actually far better suitet to most situations than a jedi,A fringer or a scoundle can handle almost any situation with skill and guile, a soilder excells in combat (better than a jedi most of the time) and none of them has to follow some mumblejumbled code of conduct.

Remember that the star wars universe is far more than the Glowrod guys

[DarthRevan987]

"It seems senseless fanboyism beats reason every time around here. *sigh* "

 

Fanboyism? Maybe I should start coming on the internet more..Because I have no idea what that word means....Ahhh maybe not

[Judge Hades]

Well, it is kind of too late for KotOR 2 so with any luck they will do better with KotOR 3. It is unfortunate that KotOR series went down in quality this time around in this regard.

[Ameorn]

Well, it is kind of too late for KotOR 2 so with any luck they will do better with KotOR 3.  It is unfortunate that KotOR series went down in quality this time around in this regard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It didn't go down in quality. Yes, some things will not be the way we want them. But the game has been improved in many aspects, so you can't say it has gone down in quality if the game is amde better then the first. Just hope it'' be even better next time around

[Laozi]

To each there own and all that, but one thing though

 

A video game, no matter how open ended is a story, one that someone else wrote. As with most books, I think it would be a good idea to reserve judgement until you've actually played it

[Judge Hades]

I am just looking at the game mechanics and it has gone down in quality. They took out the bits of the first one I liked and placed more of the crap that I didn't.

[Shadow Diath]

Well, it is kind of too late for KotOR 2 so with any luck they will do better with KotOR 3.  It is unfortunate that KotOR series went down in quality this time around in this regard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It didn't go down in quality. Yes, some things will not be the way we want them. But the game has been improved in many aspects, so you can't say it has gone down in quality if the game is amde better then the first. Just hope it'' be even better next time around

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

agreed. its already evident that as a whole TSL is going to be better all across the board. in terms of story, gameplay, story, slight graphical improvments, story... and not to leave out the KEY to a good rpg, the story, from what we've been allowed to know its seems clear that this game is poised to overshadow kotor1

[Judge Hades]

I don't see the gameplay improving. We are forced to play Jedi and all the Jedi classes play the same. No real variance in class abilities and capabilities. At least gameplay was more varied in the first part of KotOR 1 when you played a Scout, Soldier, and Scoundrel. You couldn't go into combat the same way as a Scoundrel as you would as a Soldier. You would die very quickly. However once you became a Jedi, regardless of class, it just didn't matter any more. Gameplay suffered greatly for that.

 

Now in KotOR 2 you start out as a Jedi. There is no variance at all at the beginning. That one bit of goodness is gone, therefore the quality has shifted.

[Laozi]

That assuming alot, I would atleast think that they have made this game with difficulty in mind.................. oh ya and probaly awareness too

[Judge Hades]

It doesn't matter if they have difficulty in mind, the Jedi classes are so uber that trying to guage difficulty is next to impossible. If you have a party of Jedis they could easily wipe out a small force of enemies. If they made the game that it would be difficult for a party of Jedi to win a fight, then it would be next to impossible for non-jedis to accomplish anything. So they will, logically, balance encounters for the non-jedi, yet force the player to play an uber munchkin character.

 

That is the paradox and why KotOR will never be a great CRPG series.

[maia]

It doesn't matter if they have difficulty in mind, the Jedi classes are so uber that trying to guage difficulty is next to impossible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Eh, that wasn't my experience in KOTOR1. Both soldiers were better fighters than the Jedi when developped into dual-wielding melee characters and suitably equipped. They were more boring to use, but they certainly remained standing longer than any of the Jedi, except for the Guardian PC and dished out as much damage. Oh, and the fully upgraded HK 47 wasn't far behind the Jedi either. Certainly much sturdier in a fight than, say, Jolee.

 

And didn't you yourself say how the Jedi are _not_ ueber in the PnP game? So it is possible to balance them, right?

 

And how was using Soldier, Scout or Scoundrel more different than using Counsular or Guardian in the pervious game? After all, it isn't like you could sneak through the dangerous places, scout ahead, use traps (apart from the fairly useless mines) or whatever. Nor were possible uses of technology numerous enough to give a distinct flavour to the scout. No matter your non-Jedi class you still had to hack/shoot your way through in a very straighforward manner. At least the Guardian had his force jump and the Consular his force focus and additional force points, so there was a bit more variety to gameplay.

 

And in KOTOR 2, with lightsaber stances, force forms and hopefully well implemented skills there would be much more difference between the Jedi classes than there was between the non-Force classes in KOTOR1.

 

We all understand that you want to play a non-Jedi, but really, why make misstatements? All Jedi classes aren't going to play "the same" anymore than the rest of classes are.

 

Personally, I want to see some spaceship combat and piloting, navigation, etc skills, but that doesn't mean that I'd chose to complain at every opportunity how everything is "the same" and untrue to its PnP roots beacuse they didn't include any...

[Judge Hades]

Maybe you were just not playing Jolee in the right fashion. I used Jolee a lot because he could do a lot of different things and quite easily held his own in a fight. With Stasis Field and Destroy Droid, no one could stop him. Fights in which I had him in my group ended within 2 to 3 seconds.

 

A straight soldier, scout, or scoundrel could not do that. You lose.

[Lord Satasn]

Maybe you were just not playing Jolee in the right fashion.  I used Jolee a lot because he could do a lot of different things and quite easily held his own in a fight.  With Stasis Field and Destroy Droid, no one could stop him.  Fights in which I had him in my group ended within 2 to 3 seconds. 

 

A straight soldier, scout, or scoundrel could not do that.  You lose.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nah, I kicked Jolee's ass when I turned on him at the Temple Summit.... And also, the Jedi Classes in KOTOR were not all the same, they were different in subtle ways, just are the jedi in the movies....when it all comes down to it, its proven, each jedi uses a lightsaber in combat....some use different force powers, and some are stronger than others....what the hell do you want man?

 

Kotor 2 proves to even further the variation from the Jedi Classes and make Guardians excellent fighters with awesome saber forms, Consulars are going to thrive off the new force powers and conversation awareness....and the sentinels will be a perfect balance between the two....that sounds like differences to me....I mean-They are still Jedi, it's not like each jedi class is another religion.....

[GarethCarrots]

god i was so shocked wen fighting jolee, it was all over in a matter of seconds, however i disagree on your opinion regarding the differences between jedi classes in kotor, the differences boiled down to combat differences not story and plot differences (big ones at least) and really thats what counts as the biggie in an rpg, the story, the difference in combat btween the 3 classes wasnt really significant to the game experience

[Lord Satasn]

I didn't say anything about the Classes effecting the Story in Kotor...unless ur not talkin to me...

[GarethCarrots]

'the difference in combat btween the 3 classes wasnt really significant to the game experience'

 

all points in my post where in support of that conclusion

 

ps. that sounds like a dodgy conclusion but it only says difference in combat because thats the only big diff i could find btween classes

[213374U]

It doesn't matter if they have difficulty in mind, the Jedi classes are so uber that trying to guage difficulty is next to impossible.  If you have a party of Jedis they could easily wipe out a small force of enemies.  If they made the game that it would be difficult for a party of Jedi to win a fight, then it would be next to impossible for non-jedis to accomplish anything.  So they will, logically, balance encounters for the non-jedi, yet force the player to play an uber munchkin character.

 

That is the paradox and why KotOR will never be a great CRPG series.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, but that is a problem with the pnp version as well. Don't blame KotOR for that. Jedi classes are overpowered in comparison to any other single class, here, and in the D20. It's supposed to be that way since in SW it's hard for a non-force user to take on a Jedi. Only in the pnp the Jedi can use the Force to solve a lot of situations outside combat too, while in KotOR you are forced to have a relatively weak role-playing character if you want to have a killing machine.