nightcleaver Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Massage tends to have sexual undertones, and THAT is certainly implied. How the heck would you know how easy the animations are to do? Did you notice how many problems with clipping there are in that game? Did you notice the sh*tty dance animations for the Starlight entertainers quest?
nightcleaver Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 If NWN tried to copy Diablo II, that would explain why it's combat system is so uterrly boring.
alanschu Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Do you work for Blizzard or something? Nope. What makes a game a rpg? D2 has character classes, levels, selectable skills, everything you need for RPing. I suppose the definition of an RPG is rather vague....but I consider an RPG to be more than just a game where you can select a class and upgrade your stats. Hence why Diablo II is generally referred to a RPG Lite or an action RPG. IMO RPGs generally involve epic stories with lots of character interaction.
Judge Hades Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Nope. What makes a game a rpg? D2 has character classes, levels, selectable skills, everything you need for RPing. It has everything, but the role playing. Without the RP its not a CRPG.
Karzak Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Nope. What makes a game a rpg? D2 has character classes, levels, selectable skills, everything you need for RPing. It has everything, but the role playing. Without the RP its not a CRPG. D2 has roleplaying, not to different from NWN OC, you are a character out to save the whatever at the bequest of whoever. Let's keep the T&A in FanTAsy ***Posting delayed, user on moderator review*** Why Bio Why?
Fardragon Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 It's an interesting issue, but I would say that role playing is something that occurs between two or more people who act as if they are different people or in a different situation to their eveyday lives. From this defintion multiplayer diabalo may be a CRPG, KotOR certainly is not. (Call it a Graphic Adventure/Turn Based Stratagy game). Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!!
nightcleaver Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 My point still stands: Have you seen anyone roleplay in Diablo II? I do plenty of roleplaying in KotOR. I will admit that Diablo II is an RPG in the vaguest sense, and certainly in the sense I thought of it before really thinking about it...
Karzak Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 My point still stands: Have you seen anyone roleplay in Diablo II? I do plenty of roleplaying in KotOR. If you can RP in KotOR, you can RP in D2. Let's keep the T&A in FanTAsy ***Posting delayed, user on moderator review*** Why Bio Why?
nightcleaver Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Wow. You either totally skipped the dialogue, or never actually played the game. I suspect the latter; that you're saying that just to prove Diablo II is quality. An impossiblity, though, considering how boring it is... The most that you can RP in diablo II is to say, "I'm the main character. Look at me!! !" ... but no. that's not the same thing as having choices, and actually being involved in discussion.
Drakron Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 What choices? There are no choices in SW:KotOR, they all lead to the same result and consequences of actions are simply limited to the planet it takes place at best, killing the fish does not change anything, the Sith dont simply take over the place. SW:KotOR gives the illusion of choice, granted most CRPGs do the same (such as Gothic 2) as other are more honest and dont even bother. Diablo 2 have roleplay and even if that game is a punching bag its still have RPG elements, including roleplaying.
Karzak Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 but no. that's not the same thing as having choices ROTFLMAOAYSS yea, choices in KotOR is why I am running the sith school after killing the leader instead of chasing after malak Choices, LOL, just how long ago did you fall off the turnip truck? Let's keep the T&A in FanTAsy ***Posting delayed, user on moderator review*** Why Bio Why?
DarthShad Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 but no. that's not the same thing as having choices ROTFLMAOAYSS yea, choices in KotOR is why I am running the sith school after killing the leader instead of chasing after malak Choices, LOL, just how long ago did you fall off the turnip truck? Still, Diablo II is not a CRPG no matter how much you wanted it to be.
Karzak Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Still, Diablo II is not a CRPG no matter how much you wanted it to be. LOL, lets see if I can play too. Still, Diablo II is a CRPG no matter how much you wanted it not to be. Let's keep the T&A in FanTAsy ***Posting delayed, user on moderator review*** Why Bio Why?
Darth Jebus Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 but no. that's not the same thing as having choices ROTFLMAOAYSS I think it's easier just to type rolling-on-the-floor-laughing-my-a**-off. I have no idea what the rest of that means.
nightcleaver Posted July 2, 2004 Posted July 2, 2004 Right. So Diablo II puts you in just as much role as PS: T? BS. You know, you can't have a GAME that has that sort of freedom. In fallout, I couldn't suddenly stop my quest and become the mayor of a town, now could I? No, it wouldn't be the same game, and they'd have to essentially make a NEW game that involved being the mayor of a town. You can do that in Fable, but I can imagine Fable will have a crappier story than Diablo II, despite the choice... The common, GOOD (in my opinion) cRPG is based around playing the role in a story. Programming has to be defined, and thus a story is the best way to do that. PnP can do "real life" role-playing, but when you do that there's not an over-arching story. The story, in fact, is the reason people read fiction. Diablo II is an artwork only so far as the aspects of making a terribly over-simplified, out-of-balance skill system is - and a plot that makes comic books look like shakespeare. A game can give you choice, but only so much as dev time will give you. When I say choice, sure I mean an illusion; but can you prove it's not like that in real life? You could, well, choose not to eat and then starve to death - but would you? When a game is heavily motivated by plot, you won't have the same illusion of choice you have in real life, as instead of being focused around such basics as food and and breathing and life and reproduction, it's focused on a STORYLINE! *GASP* ... which Diablo II basically lacks. It has about as much story as X-Com did, and X-Com was still a fun game. But it had no plot, and I hold no illusion that it did... If you just thought KotOR's story was crap, I would like proof. The fact is, though, that I played the game as well, and have thusly already made my judgement independent from your own. If you can prove KotOR wasn't driven by story, well... you have my kudos, because that's quite an amazing feat.
DarthShad Posted July 2, 2004 Posted July 2, 2004 Still, Diablo II is not a CRPG no matter how much you wanted it to be. LOL, lets see if I can play too. Still, Diablo II is a CRPG no matter how much you wanted it not to be. I've played Diablo 2 and I enjoyed it. But after the second time through (all three dificulties), it really got boring. This is how you play diablo: Click, click, click (enemy killed), loot corpse, go back to town, sell loot. Repeat. When you reach the end boss, you just click away until it is killed. How could that be challeging? I respect your opinion, but I don't shared it.
Jurgenaut Posted July 2, 2004 Posted July 2, 2004 If Diablo 2 is a role playing game, then Doom, Counterstrike and BF42 are RPGs too. At least in those games, practice makes perfect. Like, be a pilot for BF42. After some hours of bombing tanks and dogfighting, you will have 'levelled up' (you will have increased your skill, the game doesn't do it for you). When you start a new game, you wont have to practice that again. In D2 you see an enemy and click it. Much like shooters, only the perspective view is different. In Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory you can even gain levels in engineering, weaponry etc. Is that an RPG? No. An RPG, to me, is more than just stats, skills and experience points. "You have offended my family, and you have offended the Shaolin temple." Bruce Lee, Enter the Dragon
Drakron Posted July 2, 2004 Posted July 2, 2004 Diablo 2 is a action CRPG. Its one, trying to deny it changes nothing. IWD series is very similar to Diablo, there is a dungeon crawl focus on it but still its a CRPG. Heck BG:DA are RPGs and they play just like Diablo, fact someone does not "considers then RPG" does not change the fact they are RPGs, dialogue choices do not make something a RPG or we have to take adventure games as RPGs and we dont. And I am not going to point out the diferences of the several genders, if someone is too ****ing stupid to not know the diference I will not be wasting my time try to educate then.
alanschu Posted July 2, 2004 Posted July 2, 2004 Games like BG:DA are generally considered Action RPGs.
Jurgenaut Posted July 2, 2004 Posted July 2, 2004 Diablo 2 is a action CRPG. Its one, trying to deny it changes nothing. IWD series is very similar to Diablo, there is a dungeon crawl focus on it but still its a CRPG. Heck BG:DA are RPGs and they play just like Diablo, fact someone does not "considers then RPG" does not change the fact they are RPGs, dialogue choices do not make something a RPG or we have to take adventure games as RPGs and we dont. And I am not going to point out the diferences of the several genders, if someone is too ****ing stupid to not know the diference I will not be wasting my time try to educate then. "I'm right and you are not! Realize this, or face the everlasting mark of stupidity!" What I consider true means everything for me. I deny Diablo the RPG label. I do not get the same experience playing Diablo or Sacred as when I'm playing Torment or Fallout, therefore I feel a real need to differentiate between them. Truth is a subjective opinion. "You have offended my family, and you have offended the Shaolin temple." Bruce Lee, Enter the Dragon
will_990 Posted July 2, 2004 Posted July 2, 2004 Ahm..folks, this topic is about including (multiple) romance plots (to which I do agree), not about including sex orgies etc (to which I would not agree), however kissing sequences etc. should be added, puritanism is no longer adequate in our century, imo...but please keep on talking, I like this thread.
Jast Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 Ok, back on topic. I would like to see multiple romances in the game, not just one set, "Ok, this one is your girl," type of thing. I also think that the love interests should fight with each other over you. Good interaction. Now about DS players mindtricking..... hmmm. Mind trick the npc into falling in love with you perhaps or kissing or whatever?
DesertHawk Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 Diablo 2 is a action CRPG. Its one, trying to deny it changes nothing. IWD series is very similar to Diablo, there is a dungeon crawl focus on it but still its a CRPG. Heck BG:DA are RPGs and they play just like Diablo, fact someone does not "considers then RPG" does not change the fact they are RPGs, dialogue choices do not make something a RPG or we have to take adventure games as RPGs and we dont. And I am not going to point out the diferences of the several genders, if someone is too ****ing stupid to not know the diference I will not be wasting my time try to educate then. "I'm right and you are not! Realize this, or face the everlasting mark of stupidity!" What I consider true means everything for me. I deny Diablo the RPG label. I do not get the same experience playing Diablo or Sacred as when I'm playing Torment or Fallout, therefore I feel a real need to differentiate between them. Truth is a subjective opinion. Maybe it's the lack of character development that makes Diablo just a click and hit game. Maybe it's the lack of options in dialogue. Maybe it's the fact that there's not much making your character unique, and you have to be set on male/female, height, skin colour, appearance. If I recall correctly, neither Diablo or Diablo 2 - or Lord of Destruction, for that matter - had such nice customization. I can't wait until Uru-style customization becomes the norm. (Back on topic) Seeing additional romances would be lovely. I found myself being a lightside Jedi doing the bad thing around Carth to make him angry and get to kill him at the end. I loved it. If I could have romanced Zalzabar, I would have. Romance with a wookie . That'd make my day. I never played male (females. We're cooler. But a slight difference in gender would sure be nice. Like females get a bonus to CHA and WIS and INT and DEX and men get a bonus to STR and a teeny bonus to DEX... ) so I never knew what the Bastila romance was like. However, I do get the impression people felt cheated by her romance. Juhani romance with female Revan was the best. She always confessed her undying love for me. Mindtricking someone to get all warm and snuggly with you would be nice. Fnord.
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