Ukraine Conflict - In the grim darkness of the near future, there is only war!

[Malcador]

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/18/trump-blames-zelenskyy-ukraine-war-020517

Trump losing it.

[Zoraptor]

At the moment the only one who isn't visibly losing it is Putin. Trump being Trump, some ludicrous comments and headless chook behaviour from the Europeans (particularly frustrating, not like they had 3 months to prepare for Trump and had Afghanistan as a blueprint for what to expect), Zelensky all over the place. Which is, at least, highly understandable.

I'm also slightly annoyed- but not surprised- by the outraeg!!!11!! about Zelensky being excluded from the talks and selective memory being applied. Talks without Ukraine are exactly as useful as talks without Russia. And lest we forget- since it seems most journalists have- there were multiple talks held without Russia resulting in a succession of peace plans from Zelensky that were unrealistic, then, and even less realistic now.

[bugarup]

9 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

And lest we forget- since it seems most journalists have- there were multiple talks held without Russia resulting in a succession of peace plans from Zelensky that were unrealistic, then, and even less realistic now.

That's because -- and I am sure you know that as well as anyone -- inviting russia would give legitimacy to its claims. Not to mention that discussing "peace plans" with the aggressor that is sole reason why there is no peace in the first place is rather unsavory if unpragmatical and I, for one, loved that EU showed a little bit of spine here. 

The same legitimacy issue is happening right now as well, with russia sidelining Ukraine and Idiocracy allowing it. I bet sanctions will be lifted in days, and I wouldn't be surprised if orange thing greenlighted selling tech and weapons to russia. 

 

Edited Wednesday at 08:49 AM by bugarup

[Lexx]

Chances for that aren't too bad, I guess. They pretend to do an awesome peace plan now, Ukraine obviously will decline it, then Trump says they tried, and will lift russian sanctions.

Trade between america and russia will pick up again, they make nice money, EU will be left out of the market, since they keep their sanctions up. It's pretty much a double-hurt. For ukraine and for the EU.

[Malcador]

4 hours ago, bugarup said:

That's because -- and I am sure you know that as well as anyone -- inviting russia would give legitimacy to its claims. Not to mention that discussing "peace plans" with the aggressor that is sole reason why there is no peace in the first place is rather unsavory if unpragmatical and I, for one, loved that EU showed a little bit of spine here. 

The same legitimacy issue is happening right now as well, with russia sidelining Ukraine and Idiocracy allowing it. I bet sanctions will be lifted in days, and I wouldn't be surprised if orange thing greenlighted selling tech and weapons to russia. 

 

Is just funny that they gave their diplomats and leaders nice trips to Switzerland or Germany for no real purpose, framing a rally as a peace summit.

Doubt they'll be sending tech and weaoons to Russia, that'd be too stupid a switch even for this clown show.

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/47420

Hopefully Trump doesn't throw a tantrum at this.

Edited Wednesday at 01:02 PM by Malcador

[Malcador]

 

 

 

[ShadySands]

I'm shocked anyone expected anything else from Trump

[Malcador]

Biden still living in Trump's head

[Zoraptor]

15 hours ago, bugarup said:

That's because -- and I am sure you know that as well as anyone -- inviting russia would give legitimacy to its claims. Not to mention that discussing "peace plans" with the aggressor that is sole reason why there is no peace in the first place is rather unsavory if unpragmatical and I, for one, loved that EU showed a little bit of spine here. 

The same legitimacy issue is happening right now as well, with russia sidelining Ukraine and Idiocracy allowing it. I bet sanctions will be lifted in days, and I wouldn't be surprised if orange thing greenlighted selling tech and weapons to russia.

I'd have said the most likely outcome of inviting Russia was them not turning up for the first meeting, which would have been even better for Ukrainian and Euro feelings of righteousness. They probably would have for the second though. As it was the results there were hardly lent credibility when a sizeable number of the hand picked participants refused to sign the communiqué precisely because Russia wasn't there (or didn't turn up to it). There's limited practical utility in preaching only to the converted in order to convince oneself of one's moral superiority. It really isn't a peace conference if there's both no prospect of it resulting in peace and it does nothing to progress towards it, that's just one side making demands to an audience- and that's true whether it's Russia or Ukraine missing from the negotiations.

In any case lending legitimacy to claims is something which is always said about negotiations. Said it for Hamas, said it for the IRA, said it for the Taleban, and others; and for far more minor issues than the current one. For practical matters there was always going to be a negotiated settlement unless you Believed the constant barrage of pipe dream fantasies about Russia's imminent collapse- which, it seems, rather a lot of European leaders did. In that scenario by far the most important factor is not making Euros feel righteous, it's that Ukraine would have been in a far better position for negotiations then as opposed to negotiations now.

Edited yesterday at 12:29 AM by Zoraptor

[Malcador]

Whole MAGA apparatus is turning on Zelensky more now, huh

[Elerond]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/us-opposes-wording-russian-aggression-in-g7-statement/ar-AA1zs7Ka

According to anonymous Western officials, US envoys opposed the phrase "Russian aggression" and similar descriptions that G7 leaders have used since 2022 to describe the conflict.

Two anonymous sources added that the Trump administration's insistence on softening the wording reflects a broader shift in US policy toward describing the war as a "conflict in Ukraine."

 

So not war and Russia is not the aggressor

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/ukraine-no-joint-statement-after-zelenskyy-us-envoy-talks/ar-AA1zoYPd

Meanwhile, US Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said that Zelenskyy had assured him that Ukraine would sign a $500 billion (€478.5 billion) deal to transfer rights to Ukrainian minerals, but hadn't signed it yet, Bloomberg News reported.