US Presidential Elections - 2024 edition

[Azdeus]

4 hours ago, Malcador said:

 

Kinda sad, not to mention cringe, Trump killed more Americans than the last 110 years of wars and these knobs are celebrating him. Ick.

[Also gorgon]

3 hours ago, Hurlshort said:

I wonder if maybe Biden stepped aside too early? Kamala had a big bump right when they switched, and it faded. But hey, armchair quarterbacking won't change the results.

I think he stepped aside too late, he made a fool out of himself and she failed to distance herself enough from him.  There wasn't really time.

[Azdeus]

6 hours ago, Raithe said:

One of the German papers has a single word as their headline. It starts with F and ends in K.

 

6 hours ago, rjshae said:

Fabrik?

Fettsack?

[BruceVC]

6 hours ago, rjshae said:

I think Biden would just have lost by a larger margin. His polls were scraping bottom at 38.5% approval rating; they flipped back in 2021 (with the withdrawal from Afghanistan) and have never recovered. There was nobody else to step into his place other than Harris, and she and Biden controlled the campaign budget. If there had been more time, maybe Harris could have built more of a coalition. She gave it a good run, given the limited time available.

Biden would have been a much worse candidate, he was not  mentally capable of ever being the US president for another  4 years 

Trump won for the obvious reasons, the  real and perceived  failures on issues  that most Americans attribute to the Dems because its the incumbent party

Thats just the way the politics and elections work in any Democracy where you have free and fair elections and sometimes the incumbent party gets blamed unfairly and sometimes its legitimate

In  this election the inflation issue was not primarily the Dems fault because the whole world went through inflation after the virus lockdowns ended and this takes time to stabilize

But the illegal migration and border failures falls on the Dems and thats unavoidable even if solution is not easy to fix, I am interested to see what Trump will do and how much impact it will make

And then one thing that is clear is that the Dems  fearmongering strategy against Trump  is ineffective  and unconvincing. Most Americans just dont believe the whole " how can anyone vote for Trump, he will destroy America " 

Because the counter argument to that is " things seemed better under Trump, Im not convinced he will destroy the US " 

 

 

 

 

[Gorth]

How does the saying go? You have the government you deserve?

 

[LadyCrimson]

I gave up expecting much re: the "general population" intelligence ratio a long time ago. Especially in terms of actual lasting effects.  Individuals can/do some remarkable things, but en masse we tend to be irrational idiots.

LC, spreading her positivity everywhere! 

[Gfted1]

15 hours ago, Raithe said:

One of the German papers has a single word as their headline. It starts with F and ends in K.

Probably means Fritz Katzmann: Fritz Katzmann - Wikipedia

Friggin nazis are everywhere!

[Malcador]

 

[uuuhhii]

1 hour ago, LadyCrimson said:

I gave up expecting much re: the "general population" intelligence ratio a long time ago. Especially in terms of actual lasting effects.  Individuals can/do some remarkable things, but en masse we tend to be irrational idiots.

LC, spreading her positivity everywhere! 

 

the self destruct instinct are both personal and communal

a single person often have enough shame to hide their worst

a group of idiot will loudly and proudly show their worst for their fellow to see

[rjshae]

10 hours ago, BruceVC said:

In  this election the inflation issue was not primarily the Dems fault because the whole world went through inflation after the virus lockdowns ended and this takes time to stabilize

But the illegal migration and border failures falls on the Dems and thats unavoidable even if solution is not easy to fix, I am interested to see what Trump will do and how much impact it will make

And then one thing that is clear is that the Dems  fearmongering strategy against Trump  is ineffective  and unconvincing. Most Americans just dont believe the whole " how can anyone vote for Trump, he will destroy America".

I'm not convinced the fear-mongering strategy failed; it just wasn't enough. Lower income people got clobbered in the pocketbook by inflation, and no amount of good economic news was going to counter that. The Fed took a year before changing the rate to counter inflation, and as consequence it nearly got out of hand. I think that's why DJT is President.

Yes, the entire world went through inflation, but Americans tend to be insular and think locally. Back before the 2020 election I thought some of DJTs policies were inflationary (E.g. massive aid package; tariffs), yet somehow he's escaped  blame. That's partly because of poor messaging by the Biden administration, something they've shown over and over they're not good at.

The Democrats painted themselves into a corner on the border issue, and they have nobody but themselves to blame. My concern now is with DJT planning to use the military against targets in the US. That's the path to becoming a banana republic.

[ShadySands]

29 minutes ago, rjshae said:

The Democrats painted themselves into a corner on the border issue, and they have nobody but themselves to blame. My concern now is with DJT planning to use the military against targets in the US. That's the path to becoming a banana republic.

I feel like people are forgetting or not caring that Trump killed all efforts to fix this because he wanted to run on it

And as far as the low turnout, I wonder how much of it had to do with efforts to limit voting. I don't just mean purging voter rolls but also limiting voting places and ballot boxes. I'm not sure that I'd stand in line for 6 hours to vote. 

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, rjshae said:

I'm not convinced the fear-mongering strategy failed; it just wasn't enough. Lower income people got clobbered in the pocketbook by inflation, and no amount of good economic news was going to counter that. The Fed took a year before changing the rate to counter inflation, and as consequence it nearly got out of hand. I think that's why DJT is President.

Yes, the entire world went through inflation, but Americans tend to be insular and think locally. Back before the 2020 election I thought some of DJTs policies were inflationary (E.g. massive aid package; tariffs), yet somehow he's escaped  blame. That's partly because of poor messaging by the Biden administration, something they've shown over and over they're not good at.

The Democrats painted themselves into a corner on the border issue, and they have nobody but themselves to blame. My concern now is with DJT planning to use the military against targets in the US. That's the path to becoming a banana republic.

You make some good points here 

 

Can I make an suggestion, you must try to not take what Trump says literally on  certain  points. Its the path  to real and unnecessary anxiety 

Yes he will deport people illegally in the country and he will  strengthen the border but mass deportations is not uncommon. South Africa is doing the exact same thing with people in the country illegally 

https://witness.co.za/news/2024/10/23/r52-million-spent-deporting-nearly-20-000-illegal-foreigners/

 

It is a strategy to address illegal migrants, I just  dont  know how effective it is in our case because we have porous borders and very inefficient border control  so anyone deported back to  Zimbabwe or Mozambique will literally be back in the country 2 days later

We have a much worse problem relative to the USA around   illegal migration because the ANC only started doing something about it and acknowledging it 2-3 years ago. And they only started then because of the pushback and resource shortages from black people in townships and illegal migration just exacerbates our limited public sector resources 

But I have listened to several interviews from Trump spokespeople  and they said the military would only be used to deal with border issues and mass deportations and not citizens or anyone in the country legally

The point Im making is Trump said a lot of things before the election but like last  time what is he really going to implement and what will be the focus?

And Im sure the border and migration will gets lots of attention 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Malcador]

I guess he watched Clear and Present Danger.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/agenda47/president-donald-j-trump-declares-war-on-cartels

But as it's just on his website, don't take it seriously.

[majestic]

Anyone else get this feeling of "oh, don't worry, he just wants to play" right before a dog bites someone's arm off whenever Bruce tells us to not worry about what Trump says? He just wants to play in the White House, after all.

That reminds me of a joke. What's got four legs and an arm?

Spoiler

A Rottweiler at a playground.

 

[Zoraptor]

3 hours ago, rjshae said:

Yes, the entire world went through inflation, but Americans tend to be insular and think locally.

That definitely wasn't just a US thing. At very least our government got blamed for inflation/ cost of living, the British and the French ones too and all lost elections in large part due to it. Pretty difficult to win elections when most people have had their disposable income cut by half.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

Anyone else get this feeling of "oh, don't worry, he just wants to play" right before a dog bites someone's arm off whenever Bruce tells us to not worry about what Trump says? He just wants to play in the White House, after all.

That reminds me of a joke. What's got four legs and an arm?

  Reveal hidden contents

A Rottweiler at a playground.

 

Yes and no.

I think Trump's only real belief is that Trump should be in charge (even if only nominally) and should be the center of attention. He's clearly in this to get to do the pomp and circus of politics and not because he actually cares about the border or teh gheystrans or anything else. There is nothing this man would not flip on and he is more than happy to say that everything is incredible, beautiful, never been anything like it, best in the world without actually doing anything.

The problem is that Trump isn't alone, he's going to get the worst people to run things for him while he plays. Those folks are either going to not be able to actually do anything out of incompetence (see how Obamacare survived a Trump trifecta) or are going to do some seriously evil **** (like mass deportations or banning unions), likely a combination of both. It's definitely going to be a bad time for everyone who isn't a rich **** and it's certainly true that the Project 2025 people or Libertarian-Fascists (like Peter Theil) are very much not kidding when they tell you what they want.

I also think that when certain people downplay stuff like Project 2025 but are also absolutely convinced that BLM/Antifa supersoliders are spreading DEI to cuck the white manspread division should just be considered to broadly agree with stuff like Project 2025/Agenda 47 or understand that it isn't going to really effect them.

[uuuhhii]

6 hours ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

Yes and no.

I think Trump's only real belief is that Trump should be in charge (even if only nominally) and should be the center of attention. He's clearly in this to get to do the pomp and circus of politics and not because he actually cares about the border or teh gheystrans or anything else. There is nothing this man would not flip on and he is more than happy to say that everything is incredible, beautiful, never been anything like it, best in the world without actually doing anything.

The problem is that Trump isn't alone, he's going to get the worst people to run things for him while he plays. Those folks are either going to not be able to actually do anything out of incompetence (see how Obamacare survived a Trump trifecta) or are going to do some seriously evil **** (like mass deportations or banning unions), likely a combination of both. It's definitely going to be a bad time for everyone who isn't a rich **** and it's certainly true that the Project 2025 people or Libertarian-Fascists (like Peter Theil) are very much not kidding when they tell you what they want.

I also think that when certain people downplay stuff like Project 2025 but are also absolutely convinced that BLM/Antifa supersoliders are spreading DEI to cuck the white manspread division should just be considered to broadly agree with stuff like Project 2025/Agenda 47 or understand that it isn't going to really effect them.

 

uk still didn't fix the damage of thacher

usa will not recover from this disaster in 50 year

if modern human last that long

[BruceVC]

9 hours ago, majestic said:

Anyone else get this feeling of "oh, don't worry, he just wants to play" right before a dog bites someone's arm off whenever Bruce tells us to not worry about what Trump says? He just wants to play in the White House, after all.

That reminds me of a joke. What's got four legs and an arm?

  Reveal hidden contents

A Rottweiler at a playground.

 

But we have had 4 years of Trump already and he didnt destroy the US 

It will be interesting to list the things he did in those 4 years and ask which policies he implemented were really bad because its several years later and its easier to assess?

IMO he definitely said some questionable things and he didnt handle the virus as well as he could of but despite all this he still won the popular vote now so for me his presidency wasnt that terrible for Americans?

 

 

[BruceVC]

10 hours ago, Malcador said:

I guess he watched Clear and Present Danger.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/agenda47/president-donald-j-trump-declares-war-on-cartels

But as it's just on his website, don't take it seriously.

This is a good policy but I doubt how effective it will be?

You cant win the war on drugs when there is a market for those drugs, that has been confirmed time after time 

But he can strengthen the border more and focus on Fentanyl 

And several things around what  he is suggesting has already been tried like "Order the Department of Defense to make appropriate use of special forces, cyber warfare, and other covert and overt actions to inflict maximum damage on cartel leadership, infrastructure, and operations"  

 

[Malcador]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

This is a good policy but I doubt how effective it will be?

You cant win the war on drugs when there is a market for those drugs, that has been confirmed time after time 

But he can strengthen the border more and focus on Fentanyl 

And several things around what  he is suggesting has already been tried like "Order the Department of Defense to make appropriate use of special forces, cyber warfare, and other covert and overt actions to inflict maximum damage on cartel leadership, infrastructure, and operations"  

 

Seems it's not good, if you doubt it's effectiveness. He did suggest bombing the cartels, heh, well or was claimed to (rather believable). Could just be hardman **** to sell to the meshbacks in the US.

[rjshae]

13 hours ago, ShadySands said:

And as far as the low turnout, I wonder how much of it had to do with efforts to limit voting. I don't just mean purging voter rolls but also limiting voting places and ballot boxes. I'm not sure that I'd stand in line for 6 hours to vote. 

Most of those efforts took place in red states, so it wasn't as concerning as it might have been. Still, the optics were pretty bad.

As for forcing people to stand in line for 6 hours to vote, that seems like a form of a poll tax which violates the 24th amendment. But I'm not sure how well that argument would play out in the court system.

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Malcador said:

Seems it's not good, if you doubt it's effectiveness. He did suggest bombing the cartels, heh, well or was claimed to (rather believable). Could just be hardman **** to sell to the meshbacks in the US.

Well  I question what it really means to " declare war on Cartels " and how effective that will be considering historical precedent 

But this is classic Trump grandstanding

Its different to things he can implement and be measured on  like China tariffs and greater border security 

 

[Lexx]

Dragging america into an all-out war with the cartels, then letting democrats deal with it in the next term, then blaming them for everything and getting reelected in the term after that. Sounds like a good plan.

[Zoraptor]

Could get another Syria like situation where branches of the US government are fighting each other by proxy. US military bombing the cartels, ATF arming them...

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

9 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

 

uk still didn't fix the damage of thacher

usa will not recover from this disaster in 50 year

if modern human last that long

The usa still hasn't recovered from the disaster of the Reagan years. In many ways I think it's more likely that the us ceases to exist as the us before it gets fixed.

Somewhat related, still counting votes but my dumb-dumb brain can't see how 15 million votes are out there to hit similar numbers as 2020. California, which yes I know is big, has about 40% left to be counted, but quick and dirty looking at what's there is maybe 7 million left. A few others have 15 to 25% left to count, but most of the country is sitting at 99%. I think my gut instinct of that Trump had a similar amount of votes as last time (acounting for population growth) but the dem voters just didn't show up is right. Also interesting how Harris lost every swing state while the dem senators held on, with the possible exception of Pennsylvania.