The All Things Political Topic - Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you

[BruceVC]

On 1/23/2023 at 6:44 PM, Gfted1 said:

^Fatcats trying to keep people down.

Absolutely, its an example of  the insidious control of our societies by  two  of the  WORST f words..." fatcats and fascists " 

Its obvious and there is one thing we can, we must protest and protest hard 

 

[Gorth]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64401190

 

I know, this was tempting to put in the Ukraine War thread... but it's about politics, not military engagements and events from the frontlines

 

At the time of typing this, 11 officials have either resigned or been sacked as Kyiv tries to tackle government corruption.

It's led to some politicians in the US calling for aid to Ukraine to be restricted.

President Volodymyr Zelensky is trying to quickly restore public faith, but the allegations are serious, and the timing is bad.

 

Ever since its independence in 1991, Ukraine has had a problem rampant corruption in all layers of society.

 

Mr Yurchyshyn believes there's no better time to expose ministerial wrongdoing, even with Western help being put at risk.

"Western partners understand we have two wars," he says. "The first is against Russia, then there's our internal war for the future of Ukraine."

 

Edit: I wonder how much that influenced Germany's hesitancy in providing aid? They are notoriously stingy when they suspect aid gets monetized and pocketed by corrupt middlemen

[Lexx]

I think it's a good time to clean house. Also put them on trial for treason or something, since they actively decided to put the country at risk.

[Azdeus]

Yeah, it's showing that they take it seriously, but I'm certain some Russian friendly people will make good use of it.

[HoonDing]

Zelensky was in Panama Papers. When is he going to purge himself?

If/when the RUssians are gone, all those western weaponry will be used against the people of Ukraine deemed "undesirable".

[Lexx]

23 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

Zelensky was in Panama Papers. When is he going to purge himself?

Almost everyone was, even Emma Watson. Not sure if all of them did something illegal tho.

23 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

If/when the RUssians are gone, all those western weaponry will be used against the people of Ukraine deemed "undesirable".

You're right. That's why we should let russia rape and pillage the country. That's much better.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Lexx

[HoonDing]

"You're right. That's why we should let russia rape and pillage the country. That's much better. "

Sure. After all "WE" are doing the same with Yemen

[Lexx]

True, but as sad as it sounds, Yemen is not right around our neighborhood.

[Zoraptor]

If you're only going to apply principles when they're local, to white people and- let's be frank, this is the kicker- to your geopolitical advantage then, well, they aren't actually principles, are they? They're just a way of making yourself feel like you're a good guy™.

Of course, helps when you do some massive revisionism in the media to make yourselves the heroes all the time. Apart from the "EU never made it them or Russia" stuff which comes up regularly there's a real beauty in that article Gorth posted that illustrates things really well.

Quote

In 2014, a popular revolution toppled the last Moscow-leaning government because people wanted to finally live under a democracy.

Haha yes, impartial and well informed Beeb. Shall I quote the relevant OSCE report for the election prior to the 2014 coup (2010 elections)? Normally I might be a bit of a knob and wait for someone to dispute things, but this time... I particularly like this one:

Quote

However, unsubstantiated allegations of large-scale electoral fraud negatively affected the election atmosphere and voter confidence in the process.

Oh dear, seems someone at the BBC has been guilty of massive revisionism and repeating unsubstantiated allegations like a conspiracy theorist. Strangely enough, massive revisionism and unsubstantiated rumours that turns the people they support into heroes. Could it be that thing you earthlings call... propaganda?

I also rather like the quotes that make the process seem altogether more democratic than a lot of 'proper' democracies, like this one (and there are a lot of others too):

Quote

The process was transparent and offered voters a genuine choice between candidates representing diverse political views.

Sounds more pluralist than a choice between, say, asses and pachyderms. Of course, Zelensky has democratically banned multiple opposition parties, in a show of freedom which can only enhance the diverse political views, eh BBC?

In amongst all the positivity there was, inevitably, some complaints, eg

Quote

In a breach of law, some candidates in official positions misused administrative resources.

That was... hmm, pro western candidate and Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko using the PMs office to campaign.

Wonder if the people fired/ resigned list includes Arestovich, who reigned for having the temerity to say that a Russian missile hit an apartment block having been shot down, not as a deliberate act. Probably, and that really isn't anything approaching corrupt, just counter narrative.

[BruceVC]

23 hours ago, Gorth said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64401190

 

I know, this was tempting to put in the Ukraine War thread... but it's about politics, not military engagements and events from the frontlines

 

At the time of typing this, 11 officials have either resigned or been sacked as Kyiv tries to tackle government corruption.

It's led to some politicians in the US calling for aid to Ukraine to be restricted.

President Volodymyr Zelensky is trying to quickly restore public faith, but the allegations are serious, and the timing is bad.

 

Ever since its independence in 1991, Ukraine has had a problem rampant corruption in all layers of society.

 

Mr Yurchyshyn believes there's no better time to expose ministerial wrongdoing, even with Western help being put at risk.

"Western partners understand we have two wars," he says. "The first is against Russia, then there's our internal war for the future of Ukraine."

 

Edit: I wonder how much that influenced Germany's hesitancy in providing aid? They are notoriously stingy when they suspect aid gets monetized and pocketed by corrupt middlemen

Transparency International ranked Ukraine as being the second most corrupt country in Europe with only Russia being more corrupt. This is well known. Any steps to reduce corruption in Ukraine I support and is good news for the country

Here is another link about this 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/25/oleksandr-novikov-leading-ukraine-fightback-against-corruption

12 hours ago, Lexx said:

True, but as sad as it sounds, Yemen is not right around our neighborhood.

Also more importantly the  war in Yemen is a civil war not an invasion and its primarily a  proxy war between   Iran and Saudi Arabia. They need to end this conflict,  the West cant change this. And  you wont find either side in Yemen saying " this is a war against the US\West\NATO" like the Russian propaganda so apart from the obvious geographical  proximity the Russians claim to be war with the West even though they not but  the natural outcome of the invasion of Ukraine is the West will support Ukraine for the reasons I mentioned which is not the same as other wars or conflicts like Yemen, Syria or Ethiopia 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Malcador]

21 hours ago, Lexx said:

True, but as sad as it sounds, Yemen is not right around our neighborhood.

Convenient how that works.  Yet that doesn't fly here in Canada, very strange.  

Interesting weekend in Iran - https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/28/middleeast/drones-attack-iran-military-plant-intl-hnk/index.html

Also somewhat amusing - https://eurasianet.org/ukrainian-officials-support-azerbaijan-in-blockade-of-karabakh

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Malcador

[Sarex]

The Croatian president is something else. It's too bad you don't get much news about what he says in the west.

[Zoraptor]

If it's the Ukraine/ Kosovo stuff it has been reported a decent amount.

(There's definitely some funky things going on with the search though, Milanovic + Kosovo doesn't return the Reuters mothership article on DDG for some reason nor a bunch of articles based on the agency report. It does return the MSN reprint though...)

[Sarex]

3 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

If it's the Ukraine/ Kosovo stuff it has been reported a decent amount.

(There's definitely some funky things going on with the search though, Milanovic + Kosovo doesn't return the Reuters mothership article on DDG for some reason nor a bunch of articles based on the agency report. It does return the MSN reprint though...)

Yeah, almost like they want to shape your opinions or something...hmmm...

[Malcador]

Obviously, the Croatian President is a Serb mole.

 

[Elerond]

He seem to want to annex parts or even whole Bosnia and Herzegovina to Croatia, remove political rights from Bosnians. He for example put ultimatum that Croatia will not support Finland's and Sweden's Nato membership if west does not support special rights for Bosnia and Herzegovina's Croats, although Croatian government just ignored his statements. 

So it should not be surprise that he has warm feelings to like minded leaders.

Even though what is said is reported by our news they are mostly just ignored by people as president doesn't hold much of real power in Croatian . Prime minister leads the government, which holds power to do any meaningful decisions. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

On 1/30/2023 at 5:25 AM, Sarex said:

The Croatian president is something else. It's too bad you don't get much news about what he says in the west.

 

20 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

If it's the Ukraine/ Kosovo stuff it has been reported a decent amount.

(There's definitely some funky things going on with the search though, Milanovic + Kosovo doesn't return the Reuters mothership article on DDG for some reason nor a bunch of articles based on the agency report. It does return the MSN reprint though...)

I was expecting him to be hawking NFTs or something.

[Sarex]

1 hour ago, Elerond said:

Prime minister leads the government, which holds power to do any meaningful decisions. 

On paper, but in reality it can go either way, depending on multiple factors.

1 minute ago, Space KP, Baby said:

I was expecting him to be hawking NFTs or something.

I would not be surprised honestly, but I would guess that Plenkovic would need to first say something regarding them for him to form an opinion and make a statement.

[Malcador]

 

[Elerond]

Not sure how much better pictures you get from high altitude balloon than satellite

[Malcador]

China says it's a weather ballon.  So clearly...

[Raithe]

Independent - I'm a teacher in Florida. Here's what the DeSantis book ban looks like in my classroom

Jezebel - Florida Teachers are emptying out their libraries to avoid felony charges

Vice - Floria Teachers are removing classroom libraries to avoid going to jail

 

 

[Lexx]

America, land of the free. Funny how people still vote for those dolts.

[Gromnir]

3 hours ago, Lexx said:

America, land of the free. Funny how people still vote for those dolts.

your quote represents a fundamental misunderstanding. not just a german or lexx issue though as we had to explain this issue ad nauseum to @Guard Dog who didn't seem to recognize that democracy and liberty is fundamental at odds. gd loved democracy, but only when "those dolts" were protecting what he deemed important somehow forgetting that democracy was by necessity the arbiter o' what were important. 

in germany and much o' europe, you freedom lovers routine limit speech (the empty bookshelves pictured is a speech issue, so don't get distracted) o' private citizens if the speech is deemed offensive. nazi or anti-muslim speech is verboten in may enlightened euro nations... and germany. why? 'cause you voted for dolts who says it's ok to limit speech. the majority decided which speech were too intolerable to be trusted issuing from the mouths o' citizens. why is woke speech better and deserving more protection than is cartoons o' mohmmad? 'cause democracy says so. is no guarantee that tomorrow or next year euros may decide much different speech need be protected and there isn't the same kinda limits on democracy as exist in the US.

florida's embrace o' anti-woke stoopid, while is mind-numbing and almost certain unConstitutional, is not placing limits on private citizens but rather on government utterances. any teacher in florida, once she leaves school grounds, may says whatever she damn well pleases with extreme limited exceptions and there is nothing desantis or any other elected dolt may do 'bout it... 'cause land o' the free and all that. the elected dolts, even the worst o' em, know better than to try and limit speech o' citizenry, so instead the focus on government speakers: public school teachers. 

one o' these days am not gonna need repeat how democracy is fundamental a limit on freedom. sure, is better than authoritarianism, but democracy is quite adept at injustice and stoopid. the majority makes rules which restricts the behaviors o' all citizens and the majority isn't fundamental more wise or enlightened and is not difficult to find examples o' jackarse misguided euro o' US laws from decades past or today which should dispel the notion that democracy is somehow a guarantor o' liberty, but we nevertheless need have this same discussion every few months 'cause your childhood indoctrinations, which you likely learned in school, is powerful and difficult to escape.  

where the land o' the free is different than europeans is the distrust o' democracy and government which is foundational. is numerous freedoms guaranteed to US citizens which the founders decided were off-limits to the democratic process. ultimately it don't matter which dolts is elected when we are speaking o' Constitutional protected speech. keep in mind that desantis anti-woke efforts keep getting killed by the Courts and florida house bill 1467 is likely to suffer the same fate. unfortunate the Courts is miserable slow at times and the current SCOTUS only fast-tracks such issues as abortion prohibitions and the freedom to not wear masks in church during a pandemic.  

here in the US, many high school kids read Fahrenheit 451. ironic, is one o' those books which has numerous times been "banned" in public schools. unfortunately far too many o' those kids forgot what they shoulda' learned. if you have not read, we highly recommend. 

"Now let's take up the minorities in our civilization, shall we?
Bigger the population, the more minorities. Don't step on the toes of the
dog-lovers, the cat-lovers, doctors, lawyers, merchants, chiefs,
Mormons, Baptists, Unitarians, second-generation Chinese, Swedes,
Italians, Germans, Texans, Brooklynites, Irishmen, people from Oregon
or Mexico. The people in this book, this play, this TV serial are not meant to represent any actual
painters, cartographers, mechanics anywhere. The bigger your market,
Montag, the less you handle controversy, remember that! All the minor
minor minorities with their navels to be kept clean. Authors, full of evil
thoughts, lock up your typewriters. They did. Magazines became a nice
blend of vanilla tapioca. Books, so the damned snobbish critics said,
were dishwater. No wonder books stopped selling, the critics said. But
the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comicbooks survive. And the three-dimensional sex-magazines, of course.
There you have it, Montag. It didn't come from the Government down.
There was no dictum, no declaration, no censorship, to start with, no!
Technology, mass exploitation, and minority pressure carried the trick,
thank God. Today, thanks to them, you can stay happy all the time, you
are allowed to read comics, the good old confessions, or trade journals." 

in the "land o' the free" we still have some protection from the dolts voted in by the majority, 'cause if you ain't learned by now, the whims o' the majority in europe, australia and everywhere else is fickle and dangerous. even so, mr. bradbury would weep.

edit: the dolts in florida elected desantis precise 'cause he is selling fear. nowadays the gop doesn't need be any reasonable fear 'cause is ez to manufacture horrors: immigrants, socialists, drag queens not named george santos and transgender athletes. the inability o' the dolts living in florida and much o' the rest o' the country to recognize how the current republican party has abandoned fiscal responsibility and the liberal worldview (not democrat = liberal btw) in favour o' manufacturing terrors which they then claim to be combating is the problem. am thinking desantis, unlike trump, ain't a dolt. the problem is desantis is appealing to the dolts.

education is always the best eventual solution, but it takes so long to see results. worse, the current gop is far more invested in education at the local level than is democrats, and is all too often overlooked that local is where real education change happens in this country.

HA! Good Fun!
 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Gromnir

[Lexx]

Hehe, I knew there would be a wall of text about my post. Really expected it. Here is the reality, though: Something like this would never happen in germany. The uproar about such a thing would be historical, with thousands of people on the streets. People like you are a problem in america, since you justify giving up some of your rights "for democracy", not realizing that you lose more of them little by little. You think those laws are only temporarily and will be shut down by the courts soon enough, but what happens when the day comes where they aren't? You're going to accept that? Maybe it's a bit late then and the damage is already done anyways.

Your school system is already utter garbage, and then this. Now of course I'm not saying that the school system in germany is perfect - it certainly is not, and we are lobbying for better teachers pay and more focus on education for many years already. It's demotivating and exhausting how it seems our government wants to not give a damn about this. However, on the brighter side, at least the air in our schools isn't full of lead (yet).