Ukraine Conflict

[Lexx]

1 hour ago, xzar_monty said:

"Needs to pay" in this case comes down to "Will absolutely not pay", I would guess -- simply on the basis of what Russia has already done, in terms of foreign airplanes, nationalization, keeping other contracts etc.

Yeah, they likely won't pay. But that also means they will never do business here anymore.

Makes me wonder if the EU would accept a new gas company with a different name, though.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Lexx

[BruceVC]

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-11-16/sweden-promises-287-million-military-aid-package-to-ukraine-including-air-defence

Well done to Sweden for this new aid  to Ukraine, I salute all countries who directly contribute like this to Ukraine to help end the tyranny of Russia under Putin

@Pidesco and @Azdeus Another reason to be proud of your country 

[Malcador]

Zelensky can spin this to beg for modern Western SAM systems, at least.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-access-missile-probe-needs-polish-us-approval-says-polish-president-2022-11-16/

Somewhat odd for the US' approval to be required.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Malcador

[Amentep]

Old thread - 

 

[Malcador]

I demand a quote in the title.

I suggest "How little we know of what there is to know"

[Keyrock]

3 hours ago, Malcador said:

I demand a quote in the title.

I suggest "How little we know of what there is to know"

I would go with "Quote in the Title"

[xzar_monty]

This is a delightful conversation, I truly hope the subtitles are genuine. The position of some / many / most (whatever it is) Russians is so untenable that it must take an awful lot of cognitive dissonance to maintain.

 

[BruceVC]

55 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

This is a delightful conversation, I truly hope the subtitles are genuine. The position of some / many / most (whatever it is) Russians is so untenable that it must take an awful lot of cognitive dissonance to maintain.

 

Monty remember the days before Putins War when we use to believe that Russia was going to save us from the insidious influence of Western Democracy and Capitalism

Remember how young and naive we use to be 

 

[xzar_monty]

These Wagner mercenaries are taking the concept of "cuddly" to a completely new level. Wouldn't you just want one near your children.

And let us not forget that like the murderers and rapists of Bucha, the Wagner guys are precisely the people that Putin wants and rewards.

 

[Lexx]

Makes me wonder how many protesters they have send to the frontlines to die.

[xzar_monty]

Good question.

By the way, one reason I mentioned children is because Kirill Stremousov, the late head of the Kherson "administration" in Ukraine, who was not a Wagner dude, filmed himself spinning his four-month-old daughter by the legs over his head and commented on how he heard the child's bones popping. This is a good example of the kind of culture these guys live in. Near extreme brutalization that results in total disregard for life. Which of course Putin rewards.

[Mamoulian War]

Czechia’s Lower Senate (not sure if correct translation) has voted for recognizing Russia as Terrorist state. Not sure what else needs to be passed, to make it official. Maybe @Chilloutmancould explain? 

that would be state nr. 5

[xzar_monty]

Does the recognition of Russia as a terrorist state have other than reputational and condemnatory consequences? Of course the consequences may vary from country to country, but I'm somewhat unclear about what it actually means. It's not like those four to five countries haven't already minimized their dealings with Russia, for instance, so I wonder whether this legislative move has practical consequences in commerce or other fields (outside diplomacy).

Compare this with, for instance, the UN "condemning" or "strongly condemning" something that happens. It's probably better that it does condemn, but it still doesn't mean much, in practical terms.

[Chilloutman]

I don't think it have any implications in terms of laws here in CZ. I think it needs to go through parlament as well

[Malcador]

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/16/russian-attacks-on-ukriane-energy-systems-00067750

Probably overstating the gravity of the situation.  But some of that stuff is hard to replace, if just due to cost and backlogs - who will beggar themselves for Ukraine.

[pmp10]

That and old soviet high-voltage substations need custom-made replacements.
Supposedly it takes months to build them. 

[Mamoulian War]

Judgment according the MH17 downing in Ukraine few years ago, has been made.
 

 

[BruceVC]

33 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

Judgment according the MH17 downing in Ukraine few years ago, has been made.
 

 

https://uk.investing.com/news/world-news/judges-say-russianmade-missile-brought-down-flight-mh17-over-ukraine-in-2014-2831219

Great news, the wheels of justice turn slowly but they turn 

 

 

[xzar_monty]

This is mainly for @Gorth, to whom I earlier said that there's a for-ethical-reasons-never-to-be-undertaken study to be made on the effects of warfare on people's sexual behaviors (i.e. their increased appetite for sexual crime). It just so happens that my current work project focuses on some rather grisly topics, one of which is violent conflict and its repercussions on individuals and societies. This has taught me a new concept, that of appetitive aggression, and while it's not precisely what Gorth and I earlier touched upon, it's close enough to be worth mentioning, in my view.

So Gorth, here you go: https://researchoutreach.org/articles/fascination-with-violence-appetitive-aggression-males-females/

I believe this topic is pertinent to current Russia and its near-extreme brutality as demonstrated by its ill-disciplined soldiers hell-bent on rape and destruction. I do not mean to imply that this explains everything, but surely there's something in this.

[Mamoulian War]

Report from the infamous Chornobaivka Airport

 

[BruceVC]

https://news.yahoo.com/russia-branded-state-sponsor-terrorism-234400329.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

Good progress on the EU declaring Russia a terrorist state\sponsor of terrorism

To quote "the resolution will include a line recognizing Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism and a state that uses terror as a weapon.The press office of the European Parliament said the resolution will be put to a vote on Nov. 23. The document would pave the way for the Russian dictator Vladimir Putin and his regime to face an international tribunal for their crimes, the message added "

Long overdue but better late than never 

 

[xzar_monty]

Anne Applebaum is at it again. She is a good writer.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/12/putin-russia-must-lose-ukraine-war-imperial-future/671891/?fbclid=IwAR34kCCmqJANvamBM5Zmh0lBsEF2RMBqsqu90zHLJdkyeK2aNypZ2wRxZ-Q

[BruceVC]

35 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Anne Applebaum is at it again. She is a good writer.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/12/putin-russia-must-lose-ukraine-war-imperial-future/671891/?fbclid=IwAR34kCCmqJANvamBM5Zmh0lBsEF2RMBqsqu90zHLJdkyeK2aNypZ2wRxZ-Q

Thats an excellent and historically informative read, I have listened to  Anne many times  on CNN  and she is always articulate, reasonable and well informed

Interesting how the rise and fall of the  Moscow School of Civic Education is synonymous with Putin and the trajectory he is taking Russia  

 

[Mamoulian War]

4 hours ago, BruceVC said:

https://news.yahoo.com/russia-branded-state-sponsor-terrorism-234400329.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

Good progress on the EU declaring Russia a terrorist state\sponsor of terrorism

To quote "the resolution will include a line recognizing Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism and a state that uses terror as a weapon.The press office of the European Parliament said the resolution will be put to a vote on Nov. 23. The document would pave the way for the Russian dictator Vladimir Putin and his regime to face an international tribunal for their crimes, the message added "

Long overdue but better late than never 

 

We’ll see how this will go through. I have no clue how big support for this resolution is. There are some MPs on Russian paylist, like Uhrik, and there are a lot “business first” MPs as well. Fingers crossed …

[BruceVC]

10 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

We’ll see how this will go through. I have no clue how big support for this resolution is. There are some MPs on Russian paylist, like Uhrik, and there are a lot “business first” MPs as well. Fingers crossed …

You right, its not  guaranteed. I can tell you one thing, it will be much easier to seize Russian assets within the EU once this is done  and use that to rebuild and assist Ukraine

Here is a link that summarizes this. But to quote some of the consequence of being on the EU terrorist list

" The persons, groups and entities in this list are subject to both the freezing of funds and other financial assets, as well as enhanced measures related to police and judicial cooperation in criminal matters. Council regulation 2580/2001 provides for the freezing of all funds and other financial assets belonging to these persons, groups and entities. In addition, no funds, financial assets and economic resources can be made available to them, directly or indirectly "

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/fight-against-terrorism/terrorist-list/