Ukraine Conflict - "An empire founded by war has to maintain itself by war"

[Lexx]

 

[xzar_monty]

Messianic thinking is part of the overall Russian approach in this conflict. It is important, for example, that Patriarch Kirill has given his blessing to the whole enterprise. Russia is not only an empire or a wannabe empire, but this sort of religious fanaticism is also quite prevalent in its upper echelons. Satanism is a perfectly rational enemy, from this standpoint. Plenty has been written about this messianism.

One example: https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/2022-05-11/ty-article-opinion/.premium/putins-holy-war-the-messianic-myths-fueling-russias-assault-on-ukraine/00000180-d65b-d452-a1fa-d7ff0ad60000

[BruceVC]

30 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Messianic thinking is part of the overall Russian approach in this conflict. It is important, for example, that Patriarch Kirill has given his blessing to the whole enterprise. Russia is not only an empire or a wannabe empire, but this sort of religious fanaticism is also quite prevalent in its upper echelons. Satanism is a perfectly rational enemy, from this standpoint. Plenty has been written about this messianism.

One example: https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/2022-05-11/ty-article-opinion/.premium/putins-holy-war-the-messianic-myths-fueling-russias-assault-on-ukraine/00000180-d65b-d452-a1fa-d7ff0ad60000

Its actually sad to see the levels of manipulation and copium where some people seem to think Putin is doing " gods work  "and fighting the "  evil, Western,  globohomo system " 

[Gorth]

Continued from old thread:

 

[kanisatha]

Countries abstaining in UN votes are considered to be much more in alignment with the 'Yes' side than the 'No' side. In the most recent UNGA vote the Russians themselves openly lobbied countries to vote 'No' precisely because they openly admitted in public that abstaining was a tacit 'Yes.' Effectively, abstentions are 'Yes, but we have some reservations' votes, further evidenced by the fact that none of the abstainers spoke in support of Russia even in the slightest during the many hours-long floor debate.

In India's case, in the procedural vote on Russia's demand that the final vote be by secret ballot because they believed a secret ballot would be better for them, India was one of the loudest voices to reject Russia's secret ballot demand and voted 'Yes' to have the vote be in public.

Also noteworthy here is that countries like Iran and Ethiopia which had voted 'No' on previous votes abstained this time, and Brazil and the Gulf Arab states which had abstained previously now voted 'Yes.'

Edited October 13, 2022 by kanisatha

[Malcador]

Wonder what Ukraine's SAM inventory is like now.

[BruceVC]

https://dtf.ru/life/1391622-moskvicha-zaderzhali-za-kospley-boyca-imperskoy-gvardii-iz-warhammer-40-000-ego-kostyum-prinyali-za-nacistskiy

Now the Ruskies are  arresting  WH40K cosplay people....hectic 

 

[Mamoulian War]

The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) has adopted a resolution calling the Russian Federation a terrorist regime.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/10/13/7371797/

 

[Lexx]

Never heard of them. Who are these people and does their word have any weight for anything?

[majestic]

1 hour ago, Lexx said:

Never heard of them.

Delegates sent from the national parliaments of the members of the Council of Europe who gather to, ah, counsel the Council of Europe. The European Court of Human Rights is also a part of the Council of Europe (and a much better known one, I would wager).

Not to be confused with the European Council, the European Union or the Court of Justice of the European Union.

1 hour ago, Lexx said:

Who are these people and does their word have any weight for anything?

No. PACE has 318 members and 318 deputies, out of which 100 were present for the vote, 99 voted in favor, one representative of Turkey abstained and, it only has advisory, not any binding character. It is basically a suggestion to the member states of the Council of Europe.

News presentation worked though, people on Twatter already believe this is something official from the European Union.

Quote from the relevant section:

Quote

13. In the light of the above considerations, while reiterating its relevant resolutions and recommendations adopted since the beginning of the large-scale aggression, the Assembly calls on Council of Europe member States to:

• 13.6 ensure a comprehensive system of accountability for serious violations of international law arising from the Russian Federation’s aggression against Ukraine actively co-operating with the Ukrainian authorities on this issue, and, in this context:

• 13.6.1 speed up the establishment of a Special (ad hoc) International Tribunal to prosecute the crime of aggression against Ukraine;
• 13.6.2 establish a system to examine the measures to ensure and secure accountability for Russia's violations and abuses of human rights and international humanitarian law;
• 13.6.3 set up a comprehensive international compensation mechanism, including an international register of damage and actively co-operate with the Ukrainian authorities on this issue;
• 13.6.4 recognise Russian political parties that have previously voted for illegal decisions encroaching on the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, and other countries, as groups and entities that support external aggression and therefore share all responsibilities of the consequences of the aggression;

• 13.1 reiterate their unwavering support for the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, within its internationally recognised borders and that any peace talks can only take place on the conditions set by Ukraine;
• 13.2 unequivocally condemn the so-called referendums held in the Ukrainian regions of Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson between 23 and 27 September 2022, and to refrain from recognising any effects of them;
• 13.3 condemn the Russian Federation’s attempted annexation of the regions of Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson as a violation of international law and a major threat to international peace and security, and to avoid recognising any effects of it;
• 13.4 be firm and united in exerting a policy of maximum pressure on the Russian Federation to immediately cease its aggression;
• 13.5 support financially the reconstruction of Ukraine and provide necessary air defense systems;
• 13.7 declare the current Russian regime as a terrorist one.

 

 

Emphasis added by me. Taking bets on how many member nations will follow the call and publicly and officially declare the Russian regime a terrorist one. Heh, they do not even bother to follow the rulings of the European Court of Human Rights even though they all techincally agreed to observe its judgments. Those are meant to be binding.

Edited October 14, 2022 by majestic

[Malcador]

Europe has a bureaucracy fetish.

[BruceVC]

5 hours ago, Lexx said:

Never heard of them. Who are these people and does their word have any weight for anything?

Why do we need any kind of council to tell us what we already know about Putins War and the way Russia has been conducting itself within Ukraine?

But terrorism has a specific definition and that definition shouldn't be misused, confused  or ignored because we trying to be politically correct or for other reasons. Like when people confuse Islamic extremist attacks which is terrorism with any  mass shooting  which is not automatically terrorism 

The definition of terrorism is typically when violence is used to achieve a political objective but it needs to have a political objective or we can  start using the word terrorism with any kind of violence?

https://www.britannica.com/topic/terrorism

For me this is a war and Russia is guilty of numerous and continuous  war crimes, I think the West and international law should focus on that?

 

 

 

 

[Darkpriest]

Seems Turkey is on board with Russia, at least when it comes to becoming a gas hub to EU, replacing NS initiative. 

[Malcador]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/14/elon-musk-spacex-no-longer-fund-starlink-internet-ukraine

" “We are not in a position to further donate terminals to Ukraine, or fund the existing terminals for an indefinite period of time,” SpaceX’s director of government sales wrote, in a letter seen by CNN. "

[Mamoulian War]

 

[Darkpriest]

4 hours ago, Malcador said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/14/elon-musk-spacex-no-longer-fund-starlink-internet-ukraine

" “We are not in a position to further donate terminals to Ukraine, or fund the existing terminals for an indefinite period of time,” SpaceX’s director of government sales wrote, in a letter seen by CNN. "

Well, theybtold him to Efff off

Anyway, if US gov does not want to pay for its proxy war, why should a single company pay USD 20mil/month? And the company is not yet profitable to begin with, so 100mil at current cost of debt is quite a big single org donation

[Mamoulian War]

Average lifespan of newly mobilized Russians approximately 10 days…

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/10/14/from-mobilization-to-death-in-10-days-russias-draftees-killed-in-ukraine-a79095

 

edit: aaand Russia started a crackdown on military bloggers, which were “spreading fake news” about Russian army. All of them, criticizing Russian MoD, and reporting on the real situation on battlefield. That’s surely a coincidence

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[BruceVC]

https://news.yahoo.com/musk-keep-funding-ukraine-even-182554982.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

Musk has changed his mind and will now keep funding Starlink, I guess the backlash got to him?

[Lexx]

"the hell with it … even though starlink is still losing money & other companies are getting billions of taxpayer $, we'll just keep funding ukraine govt for free"

As if he isn't getting billions of taxpayer $

[Valsuelm]

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

https://news.yahoo.com/musk-keep-funding-ukraine-even-182554982.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

Musk has changed his mind and will now keep funding Starlink, I guess the backlash got to him?

Pretty much everything Musk ever does in view of the public is part of a dog and pony show.

Make no mistake, he's on Team Evil. Or in other words, the people you unwittingly usually cheer for Bruce.

Like Trump, Musk does an excellent job of talking the talk, but generally not walking the walk. Like Trump, he's a pied piper, controlled opposition.

Both are entertaining. Both are billionaires. Both talk out of their ass a lot. Neither are sincere in much of what they say to the public, though they both do touch on some truths that most of the mainstream won't, hence many are fooled that they are fighting the good fight. And both have what amounts to a cult following.

Trumps lies and nonsense are a bit more objectively easy to prove, but that's because he made a lot more promises. Musk lies, a lot. You don't become a billionaire by being honest (the lone potential exception is if you're born into it).

Edited October 15, 2022 by Valsuelm

[Hurlshort]

I don't know about being evil, but there is this weird thing where people assume super rich people are experts in everything. Clearly they are experts in some things, hence the success, but that doesn't translate into general expertise. In a lot of ways being incredible wealthy should preclude you from being able to relate to the real world reality that most people face.

All of us are probably only experts on maybe 2-3 things. Unfortunately everyone here has used one of those expertise areas on obscure video games.   

[BruceVC]

4 hours ago, Valsuelm said:

Pretty much everything Musk ever does in view of the public is part of a dog and pony show.

Make no mistake, he's on Team Evil. Or in other words, the people you unwittingly usually cheer for Bruce.

Like Trump, Musk does an excellent job of talking the talk, but generally not walking the walk. Like Trump, he's a pied piper, controlled opposition.

Both are entertaining. Both are billionaires. Both talk out of their ass a lot. Neither are sincere in much of what they say to the public, though they both do touch on some truths that most of the mainstream won't, hence many are fooled that they are fighting the good fight. And both have what amounts to a cult following.

Trumps lies and nonsense are a bit more objectively easy to prove, but that's because he made a lot more promises. Musk lies, a lot. You don't become a billionaire by being honest (the lone potential exception is if you're born into it).

I dont dislike Musk and I admire his success and intellectualism.  I dont hate successful people who became billionaires because they work hard and are very clever as long as they do it legally 

He is eccentric and sometimes makes controversial comments but if I disliked people because of comments they made in public I would dislike all politicians and most world leaders

I generally dislike people who are criminals or irrefutable bigots or autocrats\dictators and reject allowing the benefits of Democracy to flourish in there country

I also agree with him about how SM mediums, like Twitter, need to be unregulated or more consistently regulated where its not just Conservatives that get banned. The radical left also needs to monitored the same way the right is monitored 

Musk is also ex-South African but he speaks badly about SA which I dont support  

8 hours ago, Lexx said:

"the hell with it … even though starlink is still losing money & other companies are getting billions of taxpayer $, we'll just keep funding ukraine govt for free"

As if he isn't getting billions of taxpayer $

 Im confused why you seem to not like him because of his  business success or am I misunderstanding your views?  

 

 

 

[rjshae]

Belgorod shooting: Gunmen kill 11 in attack on Russian trainee soldiers

Quote

Gunmen have killed 11 people in an attack at a Russian military training ground on Saturday. During a firearms training session, two men opened fire on a group who had volunteered to fight in Ukraine, state-owned news agency Ria reported. The attackers were from a former Soviet republic, the Russian defence ministry said, but did not give further details. They were also shot dead during the incident in the Belgorod region of Russia, which borders Ukraine. A further 15 people were wounded.

I'm not sure what to make of that, other than internal opposition manifesting itself. It seems counter-productive though if it was intended to counter mobilization.

[Mamoulian War]

2 hours ago, rjshae said:

Belgorod shooting: Gunmen kill 11 in attack on Russian trainee soldiers

I'm not sure what to make of that, other than internal opposition manifesting itself. It seems counter-productive though if it was intended to counter mobilization.

The BBC article does not mention, that the incident was religiously based (according to Russian and Ukrainian sources, which I read yesterday). It was not protest against mobilisation. Most likely some got drunk to much, started some xenophobic bull****, and someone decided to make a counter argument with their firearms.

[pmp10]

US is growing frustrated over EUs inaction.
They are still not getting it that they will have to do this alone.