The All Things Political Topic - Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation

[HoonDing]

Let's vote in literal Nazis all over Europe. After all, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot killed like 3 billion people. The team on the left is way worse!

[Gorth]

Since @Katphood brought up the subject a few days ago...

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63047363

The death tolls rising very fast in Tehran

"The anti-government demonstrations have spread to more than 80 cities and towns across Iran since the funeral of Mahsa Amini on 17 September.

The 22-year-old Kurdish woman from the north-western city of Saqez had been visiting the capital, Tehran, on 13 September when she was arrested by morality police officers for allegedly violating the strict law requiring women to cover their hair with a hijab, or headscarf.

She collapsed after being taken to a detention centre to be "educated" and died in hospital following three days in a coma.

The police said Ms Amini died after suffering sudden heart failure, but her family have dismissed that and alleged that she was beaten by officers."

 

Official death toll according to state media 41, according to non state media 76

 

 

[Sarex]

On the one hand this looks like classic US tactics, on the other I do hope Iranians manage to make a change without collapsing their country.

[Gorth]

Lets face it. Iran needs a regime change. Currently as backwards and oppressive as the Saudis. A  concern is if they end up with something like the Shah again... or a similar puppet dictator that is all about appeasing foreign investors at the cost of his own people, as that is what led to Khomeini in the first place.

 

 

[BruceVC]

28 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Lets face it. Iran needs a regime change. Currently as backwards and oppressive as the Saudis. A  concern is if they end up with something like the Shah again... or a similar puppet dictator that is all about appeasing foreign investors at the cost of his own people, as that is what led to Khomeini in the first place.

 

 

Gorth since Sarex ignores  me and you seem to understand what he means how is this " classic US tactics" ?

The well known oppressive hardliners in Iran and morality police arrested a 22 women for not wearing her hijab properly. She then died in police custody due to a " heart attack " but she was obviously beaten to death, accidently,  as a lesson for her failure to adhere to the " rules" 

Many people in Iran are tired of their repressive leadership and these types of outcomes, they are protesting because they want to see real political change 

How is the US responsible for this?

 

[Sarex]

2 hours ago, Gorth said:

Lets face it. Iran needs a regime change. Currently as backwards and oppressive as the Saudis. A  concern is if they end up with something like the Shah again... or a similar puppet dictator that is all about appeasing foreign investors at the cost of his own people, as that is what led to Khomeini in the first place.

Exactly, they need to find some middle ground.

[Bartimaeus]

https://kmph.com/news/local/amber-alert-issued-for-missing-15-year-old-girl-out-of-southern-california

Husband kills mom, then he kidnaps their fifteen year old daughter. Amber Alert gets sent out, cops and father get in a shootout while he and the daughter are in his truck with him driving. 15 year old girl is apparently outfitted with "tactical gear" (what this means exactly is not yet known - armor/helmet, maybe?), she jumps out of passenger side door after the vehicle was disabled by police and runs towards police and immediately gets gunned down and killed by them. Amber Alert cancelled. I think this story could only get more American if it had also happened in Florida.

(note: linked story itself is a little light on details, but responding police have already defended shooting her by saying they thought she was possibly armed - and of course, "possibly armed" means she was not, otherwise they would have said that she actually was; one rifle was recovered at the scene)

Edited September 28, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[Malcador]

https://abc7.com/fontana-fatal-shooting-woman-killed-domestic-violence-incident-cypress-avenue/12272301/

"Dicus said the girl was wearing tactical gear as she exited a truck's passenger side and ran toward the sheriff's deputies. She fell to the ground amid the gunfire. The deputies did not initially realize it was the girl who was running toward them, Dicus said, because she was wearing a helmet and a military-style vest that can hold armored plates."

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

8 hours ago, Sarex said:

On the one hand this looks like classic US tactics, on the other I do hope Iranians manage to make a change without collapsing their country.

I think that it's a genuine revolt, the big tell for me is that the (US) media isn't really doing direct interviews with people on the ground and instead pulled out someone living in New York to try and pass off as the leader. There is no doubt that the US wants Iran to get a regime changed, but I think they'd rather do business with a pro-(US) market guy like MBS or Netanyahu than what a successful revolt would produce.

[Sarex]

1 minute ago, KP From Another World said:

I think that it's a genuine revolt, the big tell for me is that the (US) media isn't really doing direct interviews with people on the ground and instead pulled out someone living in New York to try and pass off as the leader. There is no doubt that the US wants Iran to get a regime changed, but I think they'd rather do business with a pro-(US) market guy like MBS or Netanyahu than what a successful revolt would produce.

The strange thing to me is that this is not the first time something like this has happened, but it could also be the straw that broke the camels back.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

14 minutes ago, Sarex said:

The strange thing to me is that this is not the first time something like this has happened, but it could also be the straw that broke the camels back.

That's it. When you look at a lot of the recent revolts/uprisings/protests they all seem to be the culmination of things that happen regularly rather than just a response to a specific thing.

[Gorth]

I suppose it's part of Danish tradition to tell The Emperor, that his fashion (or lack of) sense sucks. Cf. Mohammad cartoons, falling out with China over human rights abuse in the 1990's (a fallout that never really recovered https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-04-16-mn-49192-story.html) and now mixing sport and politics

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/63066393

Denmark will wear "toned down" shirts for the World Cup to protest against host Qatar's human rights record and its treatment of migrant workers.

Kit provider Hummel has also designed a third, all-black kit, to represent the "colour of mourning".

Hummel said it "does not wish to be visible" in a tournament it claims "has cost thousands of lives".

...

Denmark's training kit sponsors will also withdraw their logos to give room for messages critical of Qatar.

...

In short, nobody wants to be affiliated with the tournament in Qatar

 

Official death toll of foreign workers is in the 30's. Unofficial (from the embassies of the countries of the migrant workers) adds up to 6500 deaths. A rather costly football project.

 

 

 

[Malcador]

Well, best thing to do would be to not go at all.

[Gorth]

12 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Well, best thing to do would be to not go at all.

Yeah. I'm sure they would prefer that, but FIFA doesn't care. It's profitable. And the national FA's are bound to obey FIFA's directives or get excluded from international football in the future.

[pmp10]

21 hours ago, Sarex said:

On the one hand this looks like classic US tactics...

US couldn't even get rid of Maduro and that guy practically wrecked the economy of his country. 

I'm sure they'd love a neutral regime but I doubt they have any power in the matter.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, pmp10 said:

US couldn't even get rid of Maduro and that guy practically wrecked the economy of his country. 

I'm sure they'd love a neutral regime but I doubt they have any power in the matter.

Absolutely because the US doesnt do real regime change anymore, not since Iraq

Its a pity, we would have much less problems in the world 

[Pidesco]

11 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Absolutely because the US doesnt do real regime change anymore, not since Iraq

Its a pity, we would have much less problems in the world 

That's certainly a wrong take.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Pidesco said:

That's certainly a wrong take.

Why? I realize regime change is not as easy at it seems because of several reasons that include who gets to decide and can you replace the bad  leadership with someone effective who has the best interest of their citizens in mind and believes in the principles of Democracy and human rights?

But Im sure we can all agree that brutal dictatorships and failed states caused by individuals\families  that have never had a free and fair election  in there country are not legitimate. Staying in power because you control the police and military doesnt make you legitimate?

You dont need regime change if the citizens are happy and the country is doing well but look at NK, Syria or Venezuela?

[Pidesco]

27 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Why? I realize regime change is not as easy at it seems because of several reasons that include who gets to decide and can you replace the bad  leadership with someone effective who has the best interest of their citizens in mind and believes in the principles of Democracy and human rights?

But Im sure we can all agree that brutal dictatorships and failed states caused by individuals\families  that have never had a free and fair election  in there country are not legitimate. Staying in power because you control the police and military doesnt make you legitimate?

You dont need regime change if the citizens are happy and the country is doing well but look at NK, Syria or Venezuela?

Hey, you might want to check the history of Honduras, Nicaragua, Cuba, Hawaii, Haiti, Costa Rica, Syria, Burma, Guatemala, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia, East Timor, Vietnam, Congo, Laos, Brazil, Cambodia, Chile, Bolivia, Afghanistan, Panama. Just a couple of examples. There are more.

I can also suggest you read on the Truman Doctrine, or perhaps you can just take a look at the life of Henry Kissinger, AKA the Forrest Gump of war crimes.

Or check this out.

[Gorth]

23 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Why? I realize regime change is not as easy at it seems because of several reasons that include who gets to decide and can you replace the bad  leadership with someone effective who has the best interest of their citizens in mind and believes in the principles of Democracy and human rights?

But Im sure we can all agree that brutal dictatorships and failed states caused by individuals\families  that have never had a free and fair election  in there country are not legitimate. Staying in power because you control the police and military doesnt make you legitimate?

You dont need regime change if the citizens are happy and the country is doing well but look at NK, Syria or Venezuela?

Hey, the North Korean people seems happy and content. Kim says so. They also always smile on photos

So, when are we going to overturn the one party state of the Vatican, so they can have real democracy?

 

On a serious note, regime change is exactly what Washington is going for at the moment. Biden authorised a sudden lifting on internet restrictions to encourage more domestic uprisings and coordination in Iran

[BruceVC]

53 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Hey, the North Korean people seems happy and content. Kim says so. They also always smile on photos

So, when are we going to overturn the one party state of the Vatican, so they can have real democracy?

 

On a serious note, regime change is exactly what Washington is going for at the moment. Biden authorised a sudden lifting on internet restrictions to encourage more domestic uprisings and coordination in Iran'

 "Hey, the North Korean people seems happy and content. Kim says so. They also always smile on photos " 

Good one Gorthfuscious 

[Malcador]

3 hours ago, Pidesco said:

Hey, you might want to check the history of Honduras, Nicaragua, Cuba, Hawaii, Haiti, Costa Rica, Syria, Burma, Guatemala, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia, East Timor, Vietnam, Congo, Laos, Brazil, Cambodia, Chile, Bolivia, Afghanistan, Panama. Just a couple of examples. There are mor

I wonder why the US still even cares about Cuba at this point.

 

5 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Its a pity, we would have much less problems in the world 

We'd have much less if the US never bothered with "regime change" in the first place, as well.

[BruceVC]

3 hours ago, Pidesco said:

Hey, you might want to check the history of Honduras, Nicaragua, Cuba, Hawaii, Haiti, Costa Rica, Syria, Burma, Guatemala, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia, East Timor, Vietnam, Congo, Laos, Brazil, Cambodia, Chile, Bolivia, Afghanistan, Panama. Just a couple of examples. There are more.

I can also suggest you read on the Truman Doctrine, or perhaps you can just take a look at the life of Henry Kissinger, AKA the Forrest Gump of war crimes.

Or check this out.

Nah, you focusing on Cold War covert operations and  regime change which is also what Operation Condor was 

Its not relevant in the year 2022 and how failed leadership in many cases leads to a myriad of problems and social inequity that include   mass immigration which is what I assumed we all want to end because we want people to be happy and live in their own countries? Isnt that you want, you want the majority of citizens to have a future in the country they born in?

[Pidesco]

10 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Nah, you focusing on Cold War covert operations and  regime change which is also what Operation Condor was 

Its not relevant in the year 2022 and how failed leadership in many cases leads to a myriad of problems and social inequity that include   mass immigration which is what I assumed we all want to end because we want people to be happy and live in their own countries? Isnt that you want, you want the majority of citizens to have a future in the country they born in?

Surprisingly, I'd like people to be able to choose where they want to live, regardless of where they were born. Imagine that,

[Gorth]

30 minutes ago, Malcador said:

I wonder why the US still even cares about Cuba at this point.

Because it's tradition?

A communist state can not be allowed to succeed at any cost, as it sets a bad precedent. No matter how well (or not) run it is, it has to fail and if necessary pushed out the fourth floor window, to ensure it doesn't succeed. Otherwise the axiom "communist states always fail" doesn't apply anymore. Remember how you felt when you realized Santa wasn't real?