Ukraine Conflict - Es ist nichts schrecklicher als eine tätige Unwissenheit

[BruceVC]

  On 4/13/2022 at 8:53 PM, Malcador said:

Well, some are trying to "take care" of some...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/13/stop-matching-lone-female-ukraine-refugees-with-single-men-uk-told

 

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So some men will take advantage of the situation and try to get lucky but lets not suggest this is the majority of people helping the Ukrainian refugees

[Lexx]

Feels weird seeing the whole world hating on Germany again. Personally I believe collapsing our economy / industry will help Russia more than Ukraine, but maybe I'm just biased.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Lexx

[Zoraptor]

  On 4/13/2022 at 11:36 AM, Mamoulian War said:

Speaking about the breakthrough operation, it looks like it was successful. Not sure how many other units have tried to join them, but few hundreds of them are allegedly now with Azov.

"In Mariupol, a unit of the 36th Independent Marine Brigade - Rear Admiral Belinsky, managed to get out of the enemy's siege and unite with the Azov Regiment. Several hundred Marines managed to get out, including the wounded." UA Insider

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Looks like there were two different attempted break outs from the Ilych industrial plant, which may be why that tweet is worded a bit oddly (joining Azov isn't getting out of the siege, it's going to a another pocket* in the siege; breaking out to the north would be escaping the siege if they got far enough).

DPR filmed a breakout to the north via drone, which pretty conclusively failed and resulted in prisoners (~50 filmed; probably a few hundred involved in the breakout overall, some may have made it back to the start). There was also a breakout to the south towards Azovstal, which at least partially succeeded since at least one Marine commander got through and was photographed with an Azov guy who is definitely there. Very unlikely anyone significantly wounded got through though. One of the guys in the DPR video says there were at least 4 battalions there, which is a sizable force even if depleted.

*guess it's also tacit admission that the Russian maps with the pocket split in three (as was) were accurate. From that and other information it seems very likely that it's down to just Azovstal now, with a few unsupported holdouts around the port and Ilych.

Oh yeah, there have been some claims that Ukraine has hit Russia's Black Sea flagship with a cruise missile. Only video evidence so far is... not very credible though.

[Malcador]

  On 4/13/2022 at 10:44 PM, Lexx said:

Feels weird seeing the whole world hating on Germany again. Personally I believe collapsing our economy / industry will help Russia more than Ukraine, but maybe I'm just biased.

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Remarkable how simplistic people view it really.  Although it's mostly people from NA going on that no price to great to pay for Ukraine, heh.

Ukraine apparently struck the Moskva with some cruise missiles, not sure if she's lost though.

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Malcador

[majestic]

  On 4/13/2022 at 10:44 PM, Lexx said:

Feels weird seeing the whole world hating on Germany again. Personally I believe collapsing our economy / industry will help Russia more than Ukraine, but maybe I'm just biased.

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There are other nations in the EU which get almost all of their gas from Russia too, just not in the overall volume that Germany does, so I guess... they're probably happily not the center of attention.

[rjshae]

The New York Times reports that 50,000 to 70,000 tech workers have now departed Russia with an additional 70,000 to 100,000 to follow. That's a pretty significant brain drain for the Russian economy.

[xzar_monty]

  On 4/13/2022 at 10:44 PM, Lexx said:

Feels weird seeing the whole world hating on Germany again. Personally I believe collapsing our economy / industry will help Russia more than Ukraine, but maybe I'm just biased.

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I don't think you should go overboard with this. I.e. it's not "the whole world", and it's not "hating".

But the fact is that Germany bought itself a noose from Russia because it was cheap, and now it's hanging from it. There is absolutely no one else to blame. Germany's naivety and gullibility is beyond description. It deserves flack. But it's not "the whole world hating" Germany.

I do agree there's plenty of thinking along the lines of, "Germany being the shame of Western Europe, now when have we seen that before?"

[xzar_monty]

  On 4/14/2022 at 2:07 AM, rjshae said:

The New York Times reports that 50,000 to 70,000 tech workers have now departed Russia with an additional 70,000 to 100,000 to follow. That's a pretty significant brain drain for the Russian economy.

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This is a significant step in the North-Koreanization of Russia, which is terrible. Another equally significant step are the new educational measures being taken inside Russia. So it's looking extremely bleak right now.

But hey, there's at least one person in Russia who couldn't care less!

[HoonDing]

Comedy gold

[Malcador]

The part about not allowing war crimes and genocide was pretty funny with all the idealism there.

[Lexx]

  On 4/14/2022 at 3:51 AM, xzar_monty said:

I don't think you should go overboard with this. I.e. it's not "the whole world", and it's not "hating".

But the fact is that Germany bought itself a noose from Russia because it was cheap, and now it's hanging from it. There is absolutely no one else to blame. Germany's naivety and gullibility is beyond description. It deserves flack. But it's not "the whole world hating" Germany.

I do agree there's plenty of thinking along the lines of, "Germany being the shame of Western Europe, now when have we seen that before?"

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Dunno, after reading on reddit for a while it sure seems a lot like it. Of course there is the occasional defender, but they seem more like germans to me, which imo doesn't really help it.

[213374U]

  On 4/13/2022 at 10:49 PM, Malcador said:

Ukraine apparently struck the Moskva with some cruise missiles, not sure if she's lost though.

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I've read that it sunk. And not from a source given to spread pro-UA propaganda either.

edit: unconfirmed, though

Whatever the case, massive blow to Russian pride and morale.

Edited April 14, 2022 by 213374U

[BruceVC]

  On 4/13/2022 at 10:44 PM, Lexx said:

Feels weird seeing the whole world hating on Germany again. Personally I believe collapsing our economy / industry will help Russia more than Ukraine, but maybe I'm just biased.

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Im not sure why you feel the whole world is hating on Germany, you shouldnt use reddit or SM as s gauge to determine real sentiment

Germany cant just cut all energy ties to Russia, this takes time and this was well known 

[BruceVC]

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/14/europe/russia-navy-cruiser-moskva-fire-abandoned-intl-hnk-ml/index.html

 

Update on the Moskva

[xzar_monty]

  On 4/14/2022 at 6:04 AM, BruceVC said:

Germany cant just cut all energy ties to Russia, this takes time and this was well known 

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But the whole energy dependence on Russia was a clever ploy that Germany swallowed hook, line and sinker. As I said, Germany bought a noose because it was cheap, and now it's hanging from it. Russia's aim has surely been well known for quite some time.

Germany is not the only one to blame, of course, but in this energy situation it is the main culprit. England is equally culpable in the sense that it most certainly welcomed Russian money, although it was well known how dark it was.

[xzar_monty]

  On 4/14/2022 at 6:03 AM, 213374U said:

Whatever the case, massive blow to Russian pride and morale.

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Would be great to be able to say whether this represents brilliance from Ukraine, a massive blunder from Russians, or both, or neither. But my knowledge of military strategy is not good at all, so I cannot say.

It does appear that Ukraine has managed some pretty impressive things, and it's undeniable that Russia has been downright idiotic in many of its actions and choices. But as for this one, I have no idea.

[Chilloutman]

I don't mind germany buying cheap from russia. Everybody did it. I hate that they are still so stubborn that they just refuse to go nuclear for their stupid 'green' ideology and rest of Europe is paying for it. Also previous prime minister being defacto employed by russia is quite red flag to me xD

[pmp10]

  On 4/14/2022 at 5:16 AM, Lexx said:

Dunno, after reading on reddit for a while it sure seems a lot like it. Of course there is the occasional defender, but they seem more like germans to me, which imo doesn't really help it.

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Many EU countries are working against escalation but you have to admit that Germany uniquely has sent some mixed messages.
I think there is a running gag with German arms industry offering weaponry only for Scholtz to shoot them down. 
Might be a culture shock after Merkel who was very consistent in communication.

[Mamoulian War]

  On 4/13/2022 at 6:58 PM, Sarex said:

So why don't they take care of the Ukrainian refugees for a start?

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We do care. Only in Vysegrad Countries and Romania are more than 4.5 millions of them. Even my incompetent government is pumping a lot of money to volunteers and companies who help the refugees with accommodation and work.

[Mamoulian War]

More news on Moskva, keep in mind, part of it is unconfirmed: Cost of the ship in todays money vould be 1-2billions USD. It is said, it was loaded with S300s to support occupied territories with AA defense. Ergo, if this is true, depending of number of S300s loaded, Ukraine just sunk minimum of 3 billions USD with two rockets...

 

[xzar_monty]

  On 4/14/2022 at 6:43 AM, Chilloutman said:

I don't mind germany buying cheap from russia. Everybody did it.

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But this is an awful argument. Surely it's clear that commerce with out-and-out criminals doesn't become more justified if more people are doing it. Also, not everybody did it.

It is interesting, by the way, how the Baltic countries are among the few to have taken a notably harsher stance towards Russia, and earlier than most. They knew. They knew so well.

[xzar_monty]

  On 4/14/2022 at 6:50 AM, pmp10 said:

Many EU countries are working against escalation but you have to admit that Germany uniquely has sent some mixed messages.

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It was noteworthy to see that when several European leaders visited Ukraine just the other day, a visitor from Germany was NOT welcomed into the country. So he didn't go.

That was not a mixed message from Ukraine.

[Mamoulian War]

  On 4/14/2022 at 7:12 AM, xzar_monty said:

It was noteworthy to see that when several European leaders visited Ukraine just the other day, a visitor from Germany was NOT welcomed into the country. So he didn't go.

That was not a mixed message from Ukraine.

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I have already seen, that the Zelensky's adviser has already said, that the Bild/CNN was not correct about that statement.

All I have found so far is this though:

 

[Mamoulian War]

Also, sorry for another multipost, but only now, I have found another funny news

A day after Russian settled again at Kherson airport.

There is a report that the Kherson Airport is again on fire (In all seriousness, if I count correctly, it is 12th attack of Ukrainian army on the same airport, after the Russians had settled there and got annihilated over and over and over Even few high ranked commanders were eliminated during these counterattacks

It's a biggest military meme in the last 100 years

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[xzar_monty]

@Mamoulian War: Ok, very interesting! Thanks for that. Plenty of confusion around, as nearly always during a war.

(This comment was in reply to the rejection or non-rejection of German representatives, not Kherson airport.)