Ukraine Conflict - Drei Kameraden

[InsaneCommander]

3 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Nah.

Biggest miscalculation was cosying up to NATO in the early 2000s- if he wanted to stop NATO expansion he should have invaded the Baltics when they moved to join instead of waiting until now with Ukraine. Of course if he had done that that would be seen as his biggest mistake by westerners instead, but all the problems with Ukraine and Georgia go away if the line in the sand was drawn earlier.

lol moment, India won't be sanctioned for buying Russian oil. Hot on the heels of Saudi moving to accept Yuan, it also won't be paid via dollars. Guess they've finally worked out that the Oprah Gift approach to sanctions is, well, monumentally stupid.

Talking about miscalculations, maybe this whole mess would have been avoided if only they had allowed the USSR to join NATO?

 

[Gorth]

2 hours ago, InsaneCommander said:

Talking about miscalculations, maybe this whole mess would have been avoided if only they had allowed the USSR to join NATO?

 

On an only tangential note, History Matters is an awesome channel and can be recommended to anyone who wonders about the lesser known stuff. He mainly focuses on the "weird" questions in world history, the things people rarely think about. Like why does Belgium exist? or why did Sweden side with North Vietnam? Most of the videos are about three and a half minute and a few "longer" ones close to ten minutes. The humor in his videos is usually top notch too

[BruceVC]

 

4 hours ago, Elerond said:

Why would India be sanctioned when Russian oil is not target of sanctions? US just does not buy it anymore.

Saudi Arabia and China have had talks about yuan trade now for 6 years  (talks started in 2016).

Even though Saudis aren't happy with US, main driver behind their talks with China come economic factors

US imports of Saudi oil has decreased to fourth what it was thirty years ago (from 2 million barrels per day to 500k barrels per day).  China buy now about 1.76 million barrels Saudi oil per day (25% of all exported oil from SA). China, Japan, South Korea and India buy 65% of SA's oil, which means that dollar trade causes unnecessary overhead in the trades, but Saudis have so far preferred dollar because they have imported so much stuff from USA, but now most of their imports come from China, which makes yuan more attractive, even though they aren't as good as dollars to trade with other countries and it is more volatile than dollar which could cause economic issues for SA.

Saudis are also aware that majority of European and US car manufactures are looking to stop manufacturing petrol/diesel cars in next 10-15 years, so predictions says that demand for oil is decreasing in US and Europe, so it does not look like that they will found new demand for their oil in Europe and US, so they have already started to look other markets for their oil. 

Saudis also would like China to stop supporting Iran, so they are also using switch to yuans as negotiation tool with China to ensure that Iran will face trade problems even if they are able to come some deal with US and EU.

Now Saudi Arabia would probably like to prevent Russian oil from Indian markets as they currently together with Iraq India's biggest suppliers where Russian share of Indian oil markets is currently ~2%.

@Zoraptor

I was going to ask you the same question " why would you think India should be sanctioned for buying Russian oil "  but Elerond beat me to it

Their are no sanctions around buying oil from Russia until Western countries can insulate themselves from buying energy from Russia and then you just need Western countries and their allies to not buy energy from Russia. I dont support sanctions against the likes of India anyway because I like India and Modi is a bulwark against China

Of course its terrible to see the rise of  aspects of  Hindu nationalism and the egregious treatment of Indian Muslims but as you know the world doesnt really care about the mistreatment of Muslims unless the US or the West is involved then it presents an opportunity for outrage and venting about things like " Trumps Muslim Ban" 

But I digress, in closing you dont need energy sanctions to bring the Russian economy to its knees and cause a change to Putins War one way or another. But its  a long term game, I predict 6 -24 months for the real damage to be seen to the Russian economy but these things can never be predicted with accuracy 

[BruceVC]

Many political commentators have been saying how over the last few years that the US political system has become so dichotomous that its almost impossible to get bipartisan support over real issues between the GOP and the Democrats 

But as far as sanctions towards Russia is concerned  and being united around  supporting Ukraine the US  Congress is working together nicely. Nothing unites Congress more than a real  foreign threat, Im sure we all remember the tragic events of 9/11 and how that united the US politically 

One of the greatest ironies with the invasion of Ukraine and Putins fearmongering about " Western and NATO expansion" is he has unintentionally united the EU and NATO and made them stronger. 

I would be thanking Putin if it wasnt at the expense of the lives and sufferings  of Ukrainians  

[BruceVC]

I am opposed to Putin and his policies but I have no issue with the Russian people and its not personal for me 

For example I have always recognized the beauty of Russian women. Here is local Russian song that highlights this (I apologize if it has been posted already )

 

[Gorth]

49 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Of course its terrible to see the rise of  aspects of  Hindu nationalism and the egregious treatment of Indian Muslims but as you know the world doesnt really care about the mistreatment of Muslims unless the US or the West is involved then it presents an opportunity for outrage and venting about things like " Trumps Muslim Ban"

Hindu "nationalism" (it's not nationalism, but religious fanaticism) threatens not only their Muslim citizens, but Christians too. The number of murders, bombings, church burnings (with the villagers) of Christians is on the rise in both India (by Hindus) and Sri Lanka (by Buddhists)

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/22/world/asia/india-christians-attacked.html (meh, paywall, just ignore unless you are a sub already)

https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/world-watch-list/india/

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/under-caesars-sword/christian-responses-to-repression-in-india-and-sri-lanka/5A6C24D44EE79E1DAACFBBBD54F1FF42

https://ucs.nd.edu/report/responses-to-persecution-by-region/south-asia/india-and-sri-lanka/

 

Just the top of the iceberg...

As for Russian girls singing... for some reason I remembered this video from a few years ago.

 

However, my favorite Slavic performance was not singing, but something completely different from this extraordinary and very expressive Ukrainian woman:

 

 

[BruceVC]

Dogs that get involved in wars are so cute and I always find these stories heartwarming

 

 

 

[BruceVC]

14 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Hindu "nationalism" (it's not nationalism, but religious fanaticism) threatens not only their Muslim citizens, but Christians too. The number of murders, bombings, church burnings (with the villagers) of Christians is on the rise in both India (by Hindus) and Sri Lanka (by Buddhists)

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/22/world/asia/india-christians-attacked.html (meh, paywall, just ignore unless you are a sub already)

https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/world-watch-list/india/

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/under-caesars-sword/christian-responses-to-repression-in-india-and-sri-lanka/5A6C24D44EE79E1DAACFBBBD54F1FF42

https://ucs.nd.edu/report/responses-to-persecution-by-region/south-asia/india-and-sri-lanka/

 

Just the top of the iceberg...

As for Russian girls singing... for some reason I remembered this video from a few years ago.

 

However, my favorite Slavic performance was not singing, but something completely different from this extraordinary and very expressive Ukrainian woman:

 

 

Great videos, even though I dont understand a word of that Russian lady singing its evocative and that sand art is amazing 

[BruceVC]

https://www.abc15.com/news/national/russia-ukraine-conflict/china-denies-us-claims-that-its-aiding-russias-invasion-of-ukraine

I thought China didnt care about Western sanctions and that it would stand by its friend Russia ?

[BruceVC]

 

@Gorth  and others 

Have you seen these comments from Putin ?

Below is a  post from Codex that I am quoting verbatim. Its not my words but I agree with it 100% as it summarizes my views on the video above 

 

It's refreshing to see politician calling part of his population 'scum' and 'traitors' - even in the middle of war special military operation. You won't see that in most Western countries.

No weak 'unite the nation' or anything like that - just a strong call to purge undesirable elements from the society.

One thing that he forgot - was the call for celebration of victory. I've heard that Nazis are 'basically defeated' - for the second time - and it took much less sacrifices from Russian nation than the Great Patriotic War.

[Katphood]

It says 'Putin wants Ukraine to be neutral like Austria'.

But that's what I said earlier...

...is this guy reading my posts?! 

[BruceVC]

13 minutes ago, Katphood said:

It says 'Putin wants Ukraine to be neutral like Austria'.

But that's what I said earlier...

...is this guy reading my posts?! 

I think you should do an IMMEDIATE scan of your PC and devices to look for any spyware !!!!

Imagine the next speech from Putin" and as Katphood from Obsidian forums said we want Ukraine to be neutral " 

[bugarup]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Хуйло's fascist rant

Хуйло's been doing rants like that for a while now. It's just people outside Russia and its grubby paws reach zone were not exposed to them and had no reason to look closer at.

 

P.S.: somewhat related. Dude in Tomsk stopped by protesting people, got fined for "silent support of unlawful protest aimed to discredit Russian army and its military operation":

https://meduza.io/news/2022/03/16/zhitelya-tomska-oshtrafovali-na-45-tysyach-rubley-za-molchalivuyu-podderzhku-antivoennogo-piketa

Edited March 17, 2022 by bugarup

[Katphood]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I think you should do an IMMEDIATE scan of your PC and devices to look for any spyware !!!!

Imagine the next speech from Putin" and as Katphood from Obsidian forums said we want Ukraine to be neutral " 

Sony will probably ban me from PSN for life.

[majestic]

Oh, oh, oh! Time to once more address the poster, not the issue! *snort*

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Below is a  post from Codex that I am quoting verbatim. Its not my words but I agree with it 100% as it summarizes my views on the video above 

Hmm.

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Its not my words but I agree with it 100%

Hmmm.

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I agree with it 100%

Hmmmm.

Quote

It's refreshing to see politician calling part of his population 'scum' and 'traitors' - even in the middle of war special military operation. You won't see that in most Western countries.
No weak 'unite the nation' or anything like that - just a strong call to purge undesirable elements from the society.

Why yes, you agree 100% here? What is this now, final mask-off, mein Führer? Feels good, right? Let it out. Give in. Purge the undesirables from society. Plus, beat some miners back to work.

@BruceVC I also declare victory, but if you want I can call you an -ist first too: FASCIST.

Oh and since you like videos so much, have one:

 

1 hour ago, bugarup said:

P.S.: somewhat related. Dude in Tomsk stopped by protesting people, got fined for "silent support of unlawful protest aimed to discredit Russian army and its military operation":

https://meduza.io/news/2022/03/16/zhitelya-tomska-oshtrafovali-na-45-tysyach-rubley-za-molchalivuyu-podderzhku-antivoennogo-piketa

But bugie surly you simply must agree that unlawful protests must be punished ? Their can be no exceptions !

edit:

In all seriousness, the level of political repression in Russia is horrifying at the moment. To see people agreeing with that - no matter who that person from the KKKodex was, yeah. You know what, Biden might be a feckless idiot and a doddering old fool on the cusp of dementia (or even beyond already), but can you imagine how much worse this situation would be if Trump and his fascist coup brigade would hold the reins right now?

Edited March 17, 2022 by majestic

[BruceVC]

28 minutes ago, majestic said:

Oh, oh, oh! Time to once more address the poster, not the issue! *snort*

Hmm.

Hmmm.

Hmmmm.

Why yes, you agree 100% here? What is this now, final mask-off, mein Führer? Feels good, right? Let it out. Give in. Purge the undesirables from society. Plus, beat some miners back to work.

@BruceVC I also declare victory, but if you want I can call you an -ist first too: FASCIST.

Oh and since you like videos so much, have one:

 

But bugie surly you simply must agree that unlawful protests must be punished ? Their can be no exceptions !

edit:

In all seriousness, the level of political repression in Russia is horrifying at the moment. To see people agreeing with that - no matter who that person from the KKKodex was, yeah. You know what, Biden might be a feckless idiot and a doddering old fool on the cusp of dementia (or even beyond already), but can you imagine how much worse this situation would be if Trump and his fascist coup brigade would hold the reins right now?

Sorry Majestic, I think you confused by the point I was making because of how I quoted it 

If you watch the video of Putins rant he talks about  Russian people opposed to the war as scum and they should be removed from Russian society 

So the guy from Codex, who I absolutely agree with, is being sarcastic and repeating what Putin said. Watch Putins rant to understand 

So I appreciate you playing the fascist card again, it made me laugh  as usual as very  few things make me laugh about this Ukrainian invasion 

 

[Pidesco]

8 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Sorry Majestic, I think you confused by the point I was making because of how I quoted it 

If you watch the video of Putins rant he talks about  Russian people opposed to the war as scum and they should be removed from Russian society 

So the guy from Codex, who I absolutely agree with, is being sarcastic and repeating what Putin said. Watch Putins rant to understand 

So I appreciate you playing the fascist card again, it made me laugh  as usual as very  few things make me laugh about this Ukrainian invasion 

 

Nothing in the words you took from the Codex comes across as sarcastic.

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

Nothing in the words you took from the Codex comes across as sarcastic.

Of course he is, thats why he crossed out the word war .  ( I quoted him verbatim )

People that make that point are highlighting the absurd propaganda from Putin

Its completely sarcastic

 

[Malcador]

Quoting someone on the Codex, really.

  

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Of course he is, thats why he crossed out the word war .  ( I quoted him verbatim )

People that make that point are highlighting the absurd propaganda from Putin

Its completely sarcastic

 

There's no strikethrough, I assume that didn't copy and paste.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Quoting someone on the Codex, really.

  

There's no strikethrough, I assume that didn't copy and paste.

war special military operation

 

Yes its suppose to be strike through, I copied  it above and the word  war does have a  line through it but its faint and that must be related to the cut and paste. Also it wouldnt make sense to call the invasion " war special military operation"  because the propaganda point is Russia refers to it as a " special military operation " when its a war 

[Malcador]

Ah, wow, the bold makes it way less visible, the strike is still regular face.  Just link it next time.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Malcador

[kanisatha]

9 hours ago, BruceVC said:

https://www.abc15.com/news/national/russia-ukraine-conflict/china-denies-us-claims-that-its-aiding-russias-invasion-of-ukraine

I thought China didnt care about Western sanctions and that it would stand by its friend Russia ?

People are always equating Russia and China, but there are some fundamental differences between the two states and regimes. The Chinese, unlike Putin's Russia, do care about such things as their standing and reputation in the world and being *perceived* (I emphasize this word) as a responsible world power. They also, unlike the Russians, don't want to completely reorder the existing international system, because that system has actually been very good to China (for example, China supports globalization, but wants it to be a China-dominated phenomenon, or at least a "neutral" one, rather than a US-dominated one). In international relations literature, states like China are called 'revisionist' states, meaning they want to reorder the distribution of power in the system but while largely maintaining the system in its current form. States like Russia (and Iran) are 'revolutionary' states, which want to fundamentally destroy the existing system and replace it with something else. And for completeness sake I'd mention states like Germany, or Japan, or India, or Brazil, which are considered 'status quo' states, states that are generally satisfied with the existing system and are only seeking marginal changes to suit them (though for some of these states, whether they are status quo or revisionist is open to debate).

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, kanisatha said:

People are always equating Russia and China, but there are some fundamental differences between the two states and regimes. The Chinese, unlike Putin's Russia, do care about such things as their standing and reputation in the world and being *perceived* (I emphasize this word) as a responsible world power. They also, unlike the Russians, don't want to completely reorder the existing international system, because that system has actually been very good to China (for example, China supports globalization, but wants it to be a China-dominated phenomenon, or at least a "neutral" one, rather than a US-dominated one). In international relations literature, states like China are called 'revisionist' states, meaning they want to reorder the distribution of power in the system but while largely maintaining the system in its current form. States like Russia (and Iran) are 'revolutionary' states, which want to fundamentally destroy the existing system and replace it with something else. And for completeness sake I'd mention states like Germany, or Japan, or India, or Brazil, which are considered 'status quo' states, states that are generally satisfied with the existing system and are only seeking marginal changes to suit them (though for some of these states, whether they are status quo or revisionist is open to debate).

Great insights about these countries. I like the way you frame the difference between Russia and China. It makes sense to me 

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

5 hours ago, majestic said:

Oh, oh, oh! Time to once more address the poster, not the issue! *snort*

Naughty !

5 hours ago, majestic said:

Why yes, you agree 100% here? What is this now, final mask-off, mein Führer? Feels good, right? Let it out. Give in. Purge the undesirables from society. Plus, beat some miners back to work.

It's only fascism if it's from Italy during the early to mid 20th century. Everything else is just sparkling right-wing authoritarianism.

Real talk, there is always another mask. The thing about fascism sparkling right-wing authoritarianism in the present context is a veneer of deniability or respectability to mask it.

5 hours ago, majestic said:

In all seriousness, the level of political repression in Russia is horrifying at the moment. To see people agreeing with that - no matter who that person from the KKKodex was, yeah. You know what, Biden might be a feckless idiot and a doddering old fool on the cusp of dementia (or even beyond already), but can you imagine how much worse this situation would be if Trump and his fascist coup brigade would hold the reins right now?

While I can agree with the first statement, because repression is bad, I'm not sure about the second. Aside from Trump's persona, in terms of policy he did just pack in the old Bush (2) ghouls to run things for him while he did rallies and ****. And in terms of foreign policy, there isn't too much real difference between the two parties. So maybe he would try to invade Mexico or tries to stealth bomb while disguised as PRC planes, but most likely we'd be seeing the same thing as now but with some dumb tweets.

[majestic]

1 hour ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

While I can agree with the first statement, because repression is bad, I'm not sure about the second. Aside from Trump's persona, in terms of policy he did just pack in the old Bush (2) ghouls to run things for him while he did rallies and ****. And in terms of foreign policy, there isn't too much real difference between the two parties. So maybe he would try to invade Mexico or tries to stealth bomb while disguised as PRC planes, but most likely we'd be seeing the same thing as now but with some dumb tweets.

Yeah, maybe you're right, but still, better not having to find out. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by majestic