The All Things Political Topic - Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one

[Guard Dog]

13 hours ago, Pidesco said:

Curious as to what point was made, exactly? 

That Mencken was right when he said “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

Nailed it 80 years before it happened!

[Pidesco]

53 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

So instead of making a dismissive post why dont you give me your opinion ....like people do in a debate ?

That takes time and effort, so I'm going to recuse myself. For my sanity and my job.

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

That takes time and effort, so I'm going to recuse myself. For my sanity and my job.

I get it, its much easier to be condescending  in these types of debates than to be constructive 

[Pidesco]

7 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I get it, its much easier to be condescending  in these types of debates than to be constructive 

See? You get it.

[Gromnir]

6 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

That Mencken was right when he said “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

Nailed it 80 years before it happened!

unfortunate, rush limbaugh, newt gingrich, steve bannon and others realized you don't need to appeal to The People to successful install a President. the trump base represents an all-too significant % o' the republican party, but not anywhere near all and likely not even a majority, though the gop has become so complicit with trumpism it is difficult for those in power to extricate themselves. if you are a gop candidate and more than 1/3 o' registered voters is more loyal to a populist such as trump than to traditional conservative values, or some fuzzy notion o' the republican party, then you need pander to trump for support, a problem which itself only exists 'cause o' the all too predictable problems J. Stevens identified in his citizens united dissent. trumpism is a minority movement, but 'cause o' the curious electoral college mechanics o' the US, a movement which is bankrupt o' ideals but instead full embraces odious and ignorant appeals to grievance, it were able to exploit a flaw in the system. potus as described in The Constitution is not popular elected. is in part why the "inner soul of the people" schtick  don't work.    trump also generated more loathing than any Presidential candidate in living memory, which is why so many democrats actual got off their arse to vote for a not popular candidate such as biden. successful elected Presidents were typical a consensus candidate, arguable representing the will o' the people, which is in part why soul stuff worked. the thing is, historic US polarization made a mockery o' such typicals.

the real evil, the one folks refuse to see 'cause it is the ugliness confronting 'em in the mirrors, is too many americans, republican, democrat and independents, saw trump as no worse than the alternatives or perhaps as the one candidate who might bring 'bout needed change. trump spent four years proving those folks wrong and 'cause o' polarization, trump actual became more popular than when he were initial elected. 

a candidate such as donald were improbable in American politics. it took an unlikely juxtaposition o' factors to make the successful candidacy o' a not particular popular candidate such as 45 possible. who woulda' predicted more than a generation o' unmitigated and increasing income disparity which led to considerable white working class american rage at all things washington? is no way americans would ignore such for decades, yes?  successful trumpism required the Court turning a blind eye to dark money and election profiteering, which made gop complicity in obvious trump evils not only possible but probable. recall, every gop presidential candidate vilified trump for his muslim ban announcement as the bigoted fear mongering it so transparent were, but now those same folks is full embracing border walls, crt and other nonsense. trumpism were dependent on a curious Constitutional aberration which has the President NOT elected by popular vote in spite o' most americans believing such to be the case. furthermore, while a european and parliamentary leader may be unsuccessful for years and retain power surprising nobody, that were never a real possibility in the US... until trump. etc. trump hardly is representative o' the inner soul o' the american people, but he does speak to the torpor, willful ignorance and complicity o' far too many americans. perhaps makes worse that trump is less representative o' the american soul, but rather the american capacity for self-delusion and denial as well as the recognition o' a curious alignment o' improbables... improbables which the current gop is successful exploiting in an attempt to repeat same mistakes.

HA! Good Fun!

ps we also forgot to mention how fox news and social media changed the equation. increased polarization as a result o' the success o' fox news, breitbart and social media's targeting algorithms which fed the lunatic fringe the news they wanted to believe were a self perpetuating and magnifying calamity in a way not previous understood.   

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Gromnir

[Malcador]

5 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I get it, its much easier to be condescending  in these types of debates than to be constructive 

You don't honestly think debates online are 'constructive' do you ?

[BruceVC]

4 minutes ago, Malcador said:

You don't honestly think debates online are 'constructive' do you ?

Yes many of them are or can be, its up the individuals who engage in debates to debate in good faith.

For example Pidesco asked me a question about what point was learnt about Trumps victory. I gave him my opinion which I can support through numerous links. So I would assume if he disagreed with me he would explain his reasons for why Trump won the election or something similar 

I would then read his links or reasons and see if they make sense, thats what I mean by constructive

But we often have frivolous and light hearted debates or we are just sharing our opinions. So I am not suggesting every debate should or would be constructive  

[Raithe]

 

[ComradeYellow]

GOP set to absolutely destroy in 2022, and it could be of proportions worse than 2010.

Makes sense really, with psychotic anti-Russia hysteria and obsession with Covid jabs and identity politics (Give women and minorities better employment positions just because of the fact), it makes sense that independents are donning the red now.

Here's a month old link but I believe  it's relevent.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2022/02/28/blowout-gop-bounces-to-historic-lead-on-2022-ballot-in-new-poll-n2603860

How does it feel, Blue team, to learn that you are not as progressive or enlightened as you thought you were, and that your agenda could get wiped off of the map here in U.S.A. and you might have to move to Europe or something if you cannot accept this trend?

[Gromnir]

Former Trump advisor Peter Navarro calls Mike Pence a "traitor to the American Caesar of Trump"

somebody wanna tell pete that caesar declared self a dictator?

Inside Pence-world's preparation for a Jan. 6 legal showdown

“Professor Eastman acknowledges that his proposal violates several provisions of statutory law,” Jacob wrote in that memo. And it concludes: “If the Vice President implemented Professor Eastman’s proposal, he would likely lose in court.”

pence were no hero. the vp were active promoting the stolen election narrative both before and after november 2020. however, when it got to the point where pence were asked to get his own hands dirty and perform an overt illegal act, he wavered and then refused.

A Judge Says Trump Broke the Law. Here’s Why That Matters.

Carter’s ruling that Eastman was not entitled to withhold the emails because lawyer-client privilege does not apply to felonious behavior is very much an Emperor’s New Clothes moment.

Unlike Watergate, the Iran-Contra affair, and many other important scandals of the past, the investigation into Trump’s efforts to illegally overturn the 2020 election did not need to uncover well-hidden secrets in order to get to the truth, although there were some secrets — including Eastman’s road map for how to steal the election. But the bulk of what Trump did was in plain sight. So as important as it is to fill in all the details, the most important thing is what Judge Carter did on Monday: accurately labeling Trump’s actions.

...

kinda puts merrick garland in a bind. once you got a judge declare laws were likely violated, then it makes tougher for the doj to declare they found no evidence worthy o' prosecution. 

in any event, pence's "treason" is at least temporarily vindicated as now you got a fed judge ruling that the plot trump and eastman promoted, the plot which would rely on pence involvement, were (knowing) illegal and thus not worthy o' privilege claims.

HA! Good Fun!

ps good news/bad news addition:

Federal judge blocks Florida restrictive voting law

In a stinging 288-page ruling, U.S. District Court Chief Judge Mark Walker declared the bulk of the state’s new voting rules unconstitutional and issued a permanent injunction barring their enforcement.

...

ok, but the bad news is our recognition o' the shadow docket case we mentioned earlier in this thread. the Court has already telegraphed their overt animosity towards the vra provisions which judge walker used to grant his injunction. judge walker did what he were s'posed to do (and what texas fed judges refused to do insofar as roe v. wade applicable cases) but this is likely a short-lived victory for defenders o' the vra.

and am gonna repeat how is no way five years ago we woulda' predicted a near unanimous congressional gop as well as a scotus majority would be seeking to purge section 2 o' the vra. am not quite at dystopian nightmare stage, but along with the attempted january 6 insurrection and the general p00p stain on all things constitutional which were the trump Presidency, am not looking forward to what comes next.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Gromnir

[Gorth]

42 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

Former Trump advisor Peter Navarro calls Mike Pence a "traitor to the American Caesar of Trump"

somebody wanna tell pete that caesar declared self a dictator?

Maybe explain to him the meaning of Ides of March too

 

 

 

Edit:  for those who are not into history, it's a reference to Shakespeare's  Julius Caesar where a fortune teller warns Caesar of his impending demise “beware the Ides of March” and then goes and gets himself assassinated in the senate (senators not being happy about the dismantling of The Republic)... during the Ides of March

[BruceVC]

4 hours ago, ComradeYellow said:

GOP set to absolutely destroy in 2022, and it could be of proportions worse than 2010.

Makes sense really, with psychotic anti-Russia hysteria and obsession with Covid jabs and identity politics (Give women and minorities better employment positions just because of the fact), it makes sense that independents are donning the red now.

Here's a month old link but I believe  it's relevent.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2022/02/28/blowout-gop-bounces-to-historic-lead-on-2022-ballot-in-new-poll-n2603860

How does it feel, Blue team, to learn that you are not as progressive or enlightened as you thought you were, and that your agenda could get wiped off of the map here in U.S.A. and you might have to move to Europe or something if you cannot accept this trend?

I have been  mentioning of a GOP midterm victory for ages but Biden has done several things right and he gets unfairly criticized over things he has no control over. For example he needs to work with the GOP in the Senate and get the likes of Manchin to agree to some of his bills 

But I am also very happy with a GOP victory but not a  Trump presidency. We dont want the current important geopolitical role and foundation the US plays to be upset or changed

So for example the Russian sanctions must continue and so must the US support for NATO 

 

 

[Gromnir]

HA! Good Fun!

[Darkpriest]

Well it looks there will be a lot of punching on Dems and Dems leaning 'media' 

1) Psaki moving to one of two media giants that offered her  job (at least that's what it seems to be now) 

2) "Hunter Biden" from election time and its coverage, and flaging as fake news. Seems GOP is running to investigate election meddling on this angle. 

3) Inflation destroying common folk

4) Incoming recession... 

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/yield-curve-inverts-dramatically-goldman-sees-recession-risks-soaring

It looks like Republicans sweep and possibly Trump 2024 right now... 

[Gromnir]

given how habitual wrong dp prognostications is (e.g. russia invasion), and recognizing his endemic bass ackwards conspiracy riddled post hoc ergo propter hoc reasoning (chinese labs, "proof" of election tampering, etc.,) am actual finding his input reassuring, particular with the anticipated and predictable russian propaganda factory link to highlight the silliness.

am not sure what is the spin here on psaki. is doubtful the wh will need work hard to find somebody new to take peter doocy's lunch money almost daily. gotta admit psaki has been one o' the better press secretaries in recent memory, so no doubt her absence will be missed.

hunter biden is relevant... again? why? is a serious question. for years now hunter has been a known train wreck. the reason why the laptop weren't a real story is not so much 'cause o' the russian disinformation angle but 'cause o' same reasons it weren't a story october 2020-- the fbi and bill barr had been in possession o' the "laptop from hell" since november 2019 and nothing came o' it. the worst laptop photos and emails from the laptop were already leaked a long time past and we discovered *gasp* that hunter biden has bad selfie discipline and had involved himself in all kinda get-rich-quick schemes with foreign business entities. thank goodness nobody were electing hunter. 

if joe biden had given hunter top security clearance and made him part o' the day-to-day operations o' the wh, then there would be a story, or at least you would think so. never happened. know what also never happened? the trump doj under barr never found anything on hunter other than possible tax evasion, for which hunter is still being investigated and should not be getting off the hook. you think the trump administration woulda' looked the other way if there were anything else?

pre 2020 election some folks in the media were too quick to dismiss a story 'bout hunter biden as complete fake. the thing is, "fake" weren't the problem. the fail o' the story is same now as then 'cause the october surprise is still not particular relevant save for the recognition that hunter is a mess. am no more surprised by that revelations in 2022 than we were in 2020.

Flu-conomics: The next pandemic could trigger global recession

A 2009 study by economists at the Brookings Institution analyzed the direct economic impact of closing schools during a flu pandemic. Since about one-quarter of civilian workers in the United States have a child under 16 and no stay-at-home adult, closing all the nation’s K-12 schools for two weeks would result in between $5.2 billion and $23.6 billion in lost economic activity; a four-week closing would cost up to $47.1 billion dollars — 0.3 percent of GDP.

“Those are only the first-order effects,” says Ross Hammond, who led the Brookings study. “There are also multiplier effects from a multibillion-dollar decline in economic output.” He looked only at lost wages, but people whose income falls because they don’t work for several weeks don’t spend as much, and the people who don’t receive that spending cut their own in turn. In addition, he said, “The decrease in supply of some goods as factories run at less than full capacity might lead to inflation.”

story is from 2013, so...

wanna do a search for inflation in the US related to the spanish flu? add putin's one-man war o' stoopid to the mix o' factors punishing economies in 2022 and then look to assign blame to US democrats for the economic fallout?

perhaps if the trump administration hadn't f'd the pandemic response, things would be better. maybe if there had been leadership to combat the +40% o' anul cranial affixed americans who were possible taking hydroxy and ivermectin while ignoring common sense social distancing guidelines, the US would be in a better economic position, but given how canada and europe is facing much o' the same economic issues, that is a suspect conclusion. doesn't much matter though 'cause Presidents, ordinary non populist Presidents, is indeed blamed for economic problems which is largely outta their control or is more likely to have been exacerbated by a previous administration. biden and democrats will be blamed for inflation, and indeed some o' such blame will be deserved, but not most. 

regardless, is reassuring to see dp make more prognostications and observations. w/o skarpen_one, you and comrade need pick up the slack as the best weather vanes o' wrong. am tending to agree democrats will face difficult results in 2022, but fact dp thinks is so makes the outcome far less certain. trump 2024? possible but unlikely as am recognizing the only thing which rouses democrat voters from their typical indolence is the possibility o' a second trump Presidency. 

ah well, were our oversight in forgetting to add you to the list. our bad.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[ComradeYellow]

16 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I have been  mentioning of a GOP midterm victory for ages but Biden has done several things right and he gets unfairly criticized over things he has no control over. For example he needs to work with the GOP in the Senate and get the likes of Manchin to agree to some of his bills 

But I am also very happy with a GOP victory but not a  Trump presidency. We dont want the current important geopolitical role and foundation the US plays to be upset or changed

So for example the Russian sanctions must continue and so must the US support for NATO 

 

 

Trump just bragged about having "bigger and better" nukes than Russia so Trump is not the revolutionary autocrat certain Democrats make him out to be.  The GOP has lots of promise but they do need to modernize in several aspects.

The biggest factor I think that contributes to Biden's low standing for Independents is inflation and prices going up.  Historically, Independents just want low prices and good wages above all else and hate government coddling and war drums.

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, ComradeYellow said:

Trump just bragged about having "bigger and better" nukes than Russia so Trump is not the revolutionary autocrat certain Democrats make him out to be.  The GOP has lots of promise but they do need to modernize in several aspects.

The biggest factor I think that contributes to Biden's low standing for Independents is inflation and prices going up.  Historically, Independents just want low prices and good wages above all else and hate government coddling and war drums.

But thats what I mean when I say he sometimes gets  unfair criticism from many Americans. The inflation is caused primarily by the end of global lockdowns and supply chain issues and demand where their  are limited  goods available 

You cant blame Biden for the virus and its global consequences like the rise of inflation globally 

Putins War just made inflation worse but its not the main reason 

 

[ComradeYellow]

 

LOL.  Leave it to Bill to hit the nail on the head.  I'd like for the GOP to "modernize" their agenda and stop being the "stupid" party, but until more evidence presents itself looks like it could be wishful thinking.  America is just political dumb dumb land and will continue to polarize unless a 3rd party comes in, which I have repeatedly advocated for but it always  falls on deaf ears.  The last resort is revolution, but not seeing much rumblings for that either on the ground (expect for idiot anarchist-types and far right militia nutjobs).

Screw it.  I give up.  may as well just become a corporate shill because nothing in politics suits me whatsoever.

[Chairchucker]

America has a third party. They won't matter until they change their election system. Get ranked preference voting and suddenly it won't be a complete waste of time to vote for someone other than the two designated candidates.

[Guard Dog]

Obama to return to White House to celebrate health care reform

Ummm.... as long as he's there... any chance we could keep him? Don't get me wrong, I had zero use for Obama as President. But he was not the disorganized s--t show the Biden Admin has been. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

Ummm.... as long as he's there... any chance we could keep him?

Well this made me do a double take.

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

Well this made me do a double take.

No matter how bad one guys was there is someone else out there who is worse! Even Trump. I'd have a hard time imagining a worse candidate but that doesn't mean there isn't one. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

3 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

No matter how bad one guys was there is someone else out there who is worse! Even Trump. I'd have a hard time imagining a worse candidate but that doesn't mean there isn't one. 

Well look at it this way, in two years or so you won't have to imagine.

[Gromnir]

...

it's copyright (not trademark) which is at issue. trademark doesn't expire, so boebert is complete wrong on that aspect. what is happening is that steamboat willie is gonna enter public domain in 2024, potential ending disney's ownership o' one depiction o' the cartoon rodent. the thing is, the only version o' mickey which enters public domain in 2024 is the steamboat willie version. 

however, disney lobbyists were indeed instrumental in getting the copyright term extension act of 1998 passed, so instrumental fact that the act is known more common as the mickey mouse protection act. the act tacked on a potential twenty years o' additional ownership for copyright holders. we wouldn't be surprised if disney is making a half-hearted effort to get another extension act passed, but given recent court cases and legislation, such efforts look like a non-starter.  regardless, such a law wouldn't be mickey specific any more than were the so-called mickey mouse protection act. 

however, it is unlikely anybody really wants to use the character o' mickey mouse from steamboat willie or the story and art from the cartoon. is folks no doubt looking for a way to sell truck mud flaps, waffle irons and gawd knows what else emblazoned with a familiar disney image, but in most such cases, trademark is gonna be preventing the usage. if you are functional selling disney with your image, then you are outta luck trying to use even a public domain version o' mickey. keep in mind the folks who has wanted to use mickey from steamboat willie has been doing so unencumbered by the law for many years, 'cause the most relevant usage for image is as parody which avoids copyright.  

wake us up in a few years when characters such as batman and superman is set to enter public domain. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Amentep]

27 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

wake us up in a few years when characters such as batman and superman is set to enter public domain. 

IIRC the unique elements of the outfits (the Superman "S"-shield, the Batsymbol, the logos, possibly other unique elements) are all trademarked.  You could have a Kal-El from Krypton, working for the Daily Star with Lois Lane (all elements of the first 1938 issue of Action Comics) but you couldn't advertise him as Superman from Action Comics #1 on the cover and would have to change his outfit so...not sure its going to be substantially different from the last 80+ years of Superman knock-off characters who had Superman in a different outfit working for a newspaper with a love interest (other than maybe having the characters not have to be part of MEGA-CROSS-OVER-EVENT-TO-END-ALL-EVENTS-EVER!!!! every couple of years as DC comics loves to do).