The All Things Political Topic - Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one

[Gfted1]

A quick scan doesnt show any percentage like that: Historical Income Tax Rates and Brackets, 1862-2021 | Tax Foundation

Maybe youre referring to before 1862?

[ShadySands]

Yes, in the 50s I believe the marginal tax rate for the highest bracket was 91%

e: just clicked the link and it looks like it was actually 94% at its highest in the 40s

Edited March 28, 2022 by ShadySands

[Malcador]

6 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

A quick scan doesnt show any percentage like that: Historical Income Tax Rates and Brackets, 1862-2021 | Tax Foundation

Maybe youre referring to before 1862?

1946 has the highest tier at 91%, 1964 it goes to 77%,  1965 to 70% and lower and lower from there on.

But this new tax is on top of income tax, no?

[Gfted1]

31 minutes ago, Malcador said:

1946 has the highest tier at 91%

Oh yeah, 1943-1963, I was scrolling too fast!  Works for me...time to make those fatcats pay!

[Malcador]

 

[Zoraptor]

3 hours ago, Hurlsnot said:

20% seems terribly low. Didn't we use to tax rich people at 91%?

It's probably the 'unrealised capital gains' part that is most significant. Is there any taxing in the US of things like share or house/ land/ art collection/ bitcoin/ other appreciation apart from at point of sale (or tax declaration for any capital gains taxes)? If not that would be a major departure.

Though it would beg some questions like if your unrealised gains become unrealised losses over a tax year do you get a 20% refund instead? Would be a fun time for accountants.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Zoraptor

[Gromnir]

have mentioned more than once how a functional wealth tax or the like is a nightmare for the irs and likely not viable. y'all know the audit o' trump's historic tax refund is ongoing, right? at the time o' the initial audit, trump barely were exceeding the billionaire threshold, and may even have been a bit shy o' the mark.

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/02/919411676/congressional-committee-has-been-reviewing-trump-tax-refund-for-nine-years

the impracticality o' functionally auditing billionaires yearly on assets which is gonna include valuation o' business and art makes this a non-starter and is one reason why the previous biden suggested millionaire tax on unrealized gains were limited to tradeable securities with easily determined values. as such am suspecting this is more o' an election year offering than anything else.

but once more am feeling the need to observe how capital gains is the most obvious way to get at rich person money, and the current capital gains scheme means rich people need face a lower overall tax rate than most middle class taxpayers-- we had to clarify this issue once before in regards to the misunderstanding related to an obama quote related to warren buffet's secretary. hopeful a repeat explanation is unnecessary. 

as to the proposed scheme, with the way family money and foundations is structured, a significant % o' billionaires is gonna avoid being billionaires for tax purposes. furthermore, the irs is nowhere up to the job o' tracking unrealized capital gains o' billionaires, and more practical solutions for adding teeth to the capital gains scheme is far easier to implement and is more likely to produce results.

the most obvious problems with fixing capital gains is the solutions confuse folks and such fixes don't produce the eye-popping percentages which is gonna elicit an "amen!" or "#$%& yeah!" from the assembled progressive congregation.  americans understand income tax. the fact most rich people pay only a fraction o' their taxes 'cause o' their income is only the initial stumbling block when trying to explain why stratospheric increases o' income tax rates is a largely symbolic effort as 'posed to a practical means o' seeing rich people pay more. 

HA! Good Fun!

[rjshae]

Nailed it.

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, rjshae said:

Nailed it.

Cynical but funny 

But on a serious note. I would argue since Trumps election their has been more accusations of political dichotomy and disfunction than ever before in the US

I would regularly hear comments on the likes of CNN that " the US is a politically   divided nation and we need to heal " 

But this Ukraine invasion has demonstrated that you can absolutely achieve bipartisan support in the US and it does matter if you think of the effectiveness and level of the US sanctions against Russia

So for our all American members, things are really not that bad in the US and outside of the Trump theater they never have been 

You just need a real threat to the US, or its historical allies like the EU, to see unity and Congress working together

So well done to  the US Congress for working together and supporting Biden where necessary during these dark times of Putins War

I have said this before and I will say this again. Putins War has had the unintentional outcome of uniting the EU and NATO. Im just sorry its been at the loss of Ukrainian lives 

But if Trump has been president I shudder to think what would have been the US response ?

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Cynical but funny 

But on a serious note. I would argue since Trumps election their has been more accusations of political dichotomy and disfunction than ever before in the US

I would regularly hear comments on the likes of CNN that " the US is a politically   divided nation and we need to heal " 

But this Ukraine invasion has demonstrated that you can absolutely achieve bipartisan support in the US and it does matter if you think of the effectiveness and level of the US sanctions against Russia

So for our all American members, things are really not that bad in the US and outside of the Trump theater they never have been 

You just need a real threat to the US, or its historical allies like the EU, to see unity and Congress working together

So well done to  the US Congress for working together and supporting Biden where necessary during these dark times of Putins War

I have said this before and I will say this again. Putins War has had the unintentional outcome of uniting the EU and NATO. Im just sorry its been at the loss of Ukrainian lives 

But if Trump has been president I shudder to think what would have been the US response ?

Probably none. Unlike Hunter Biden, Trump had no vested interest in Ukraine

[BruceVC]

5 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Probably none. Unlike Hunter Biden, Trump had no vested interest in Ukraine

Gorthfuscious !! Thats a terrible thing to suggest, how do you sleep at night 

[Gorth]

1 minute ago, BruceVC said:

Gorthfuscious !! Thats a terrible thing to suggest, how do you sleep at night 

I don’t. It might help that I got my own bed back now though

[BruceVC]

https://www.citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/breaking-news/3062044/nasfas-thief-sentenced-to-five-years-in-jail/ 

So in SA we have student university funding scheme called NASFAS (National Student Financial Aid Scheme) and students get about R1400\month 

In 2017 one student was accidently paid R14 million instead of R1400 she went on a greedy spending spree and spent R800K 

She was charged for theft and today jailed for 5 years. I wonder if anyone thinks that sentence is too harsh considering the money was accidently paid into her account. Of course she shouldnt have spent anything and immediately let NASFS know about the mistake  but 5 years in jail....I would have thought a suspended sentence is more applicable?

[HoonDing]

Amerika deserves to have Trump back as president.

[Elerond]

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

https://www.citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/breaking-news/3062044/nasfas-thief-sentenced-to-five-years-in-jail/ 

So in SA we have student university funding scheme called NASFAS (National Student Financial Aid Scheme) and students get about R1400\month 

In 2017 one student was accidently paid R14 million instead of R1400 she went on a greedy spending spree and spent R800K 

She was charged for theft and today jailed for 5 years. I wonder if anyone thinks that sentence is too harsh considering the money was accidently paid into her account. Of course she shouldnt have spent anything and immediately let NASFS know about the mistake  but 5 years in jail....I would have thought a suspended sentence is more applicable?

Do you know what were sentences in this case?

https://www.news24.com/fin24/Companies/Financial-Services/hawks-nab-ex-sars-auditors-for-tax-fraud-worth-over-r320-million-20210511 

[BruceVC]

7 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Do you know what were sentences in this case?

https://www.news24.com/fin24/Companies/Financial-Services/hawks-nab-ex-sars-auditors-for-tax-fraud-worth-over-r320-million-20210511 

That case is still ongoing as far as I know, I can find out if you interested?

Normally people face 15 years for that type of white collar crime 

 

[BruceVC]

39 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

Amerika deserves to have Trump back as president.

No we dont want that, 4 years of Trumpism was fine ....we dont want another 4 years. The point was made 

[rjshae]

1 hour ago, HoonDing said:

Amerika deserves to have Trump back as president.

Because we still have one foot left to shoot?

[Elerond]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

That case is still ongoing as far as I know, I can find out if you interested?

Normally people face 15 years for that type of white collar crime 

 

I would say that in that case 5 years from first case seem bit harsh

[213374U]

1 hour ago, HoonDing said:

Amerika deserves to have Trump back as president.

Make America Great Again (Again)?

[Malcador]

3 hours ago, HoonDing said:

Amerika deserves to have Trump back as president.

But sadly there is no justice in the world.

[Pidesco]

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

No we dont want that, 4 years of Trumpism was fine ....we dont want another 4 years. The point was made 

Curious as to what point was made, exactly? 

[BruceVC]

38 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

Curious as to what point was made, exactly? 

When an outsider from the GOP establishment, a political neophyte, is able to become the Republican  presidential candidate and then defeat the Democrats the lesson is clear. The mainstream political parties in the US in 2016 were out of touch with American voters on real issues and what matters 

And those real issues will differ between the 2 parties and then  Trump resonated with enough  undecided voters who can carry an election

So the point is around political parties not connecting with  their voting base and an outsider is able to win 

 

[Pidesco]

That's frankly ridiculous and shows a glaring lack of understanding as to what made Trump successful. 

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, Pidesco said:

That's frankly ridiculous and shows a glaring lack of understanding as to what made Trump successful. 

So instead of making a dismissive post why dont you give me your opinion ....like people do in a debate ?