Advice on an effective DoT build?

[thelee]

also another advantage of druid is that a good number of their DoTs do raw damage (insect swarm, infestation, plague of insects), which dodges one of the more annoying issues with other DoTs vs direct damage, PEN issues. (unlike direct damage, crits do not help DoTs with penetration)

 

landing an insect swarm/infestation of maggots on e.g. ironclad constructs is pretty nice. (but what are the bugs/maggots eating??)

Edited February 7, 2022 by thelee

[Constentin Lévine]

9 minutes ago, thelee said:

but what are the bugs/maggots eating??

[Boeroer]

[NotDumbEnough]

Unfortunately Plague of Insects is poison keyworded which I believe doesn't work on ironclads.

That's the main annoyance of playing Druids. A lot of your debuffing spells are poison-based.

[dgray62]

I guess it's understandable that they'd be immune to bug bites!

[thelee]

55 minutes ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Unfortunately Plague of Insects is poison keyworded which I believe doesn't work on ironclads.

That's the main annoyance of playing Druids. A lot of your debuffing spells are poison-based.

 

10 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

I guess it's understandable that they'd be immune to bug bites!

 

just to clarify, they are immune to plague of insects (which is not poison keyworded, but is countered by antidote, which functions as the same thing), but they are not immune to insect swarm and infestation of maggots. so they're only immune to bug bites that come in a large (plague-level) quantity.

[Boeroer]

Iirc they are also not immune to Touch of Rot or Autum's Decay. Those two don't deal raw damage though (but "only" corrode dmg.) But still: lots of alternative DoTs - should you meet poison-immune enemies.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Boeroer

[masterty66]

4 hours ago, thelee said:

 

 

just to clarify, they are immune to plague of insects (which is not poison keyworded, but is countered by antidote, which functions as the same thing), but they are not immune to insect swarm and infestation of maggots. so they're only immune to bug bites that come in a large (plague-level) quantity.

Infestation of Maggots and Insect Swarm are just so universally useful. It's crazy. They really do add up in fights.

[Kaylon]

If you don't plan to play on potd then druid's dots are of course viable. However in potd enemies have also high HP, high corrode AR and also high fortitude. Fortitude is the highest defense in the game and is not that easy to debuff, especially in an AoE. Add to that the limited number of spells of the druid and you easily understand why the effectiveness of his dots can be crippled. I don't even mention that dots will clash with other spells of the same level you want to use. 

A streetfighter/ascendant using mortars with just Disintegrate+Gouging Strike+Deep Wounds (and you can add depending on the situations Recall Agony, Soul Ignition, Arterial Strike, Toxic Strike, Pernicious Cloud) has speed+accuracy and can keep the dots going the entire fight.

[Dalzar]

4 hours ago, Kaylon said:

If you don't plan to play on potd then druid's dots are of course viable. However in potd enemies have also high HP, high corrode AR and also high fortitude. Fortitude is the highest defense in the game and is not that easy to debuff, especially in an AoE. Add to that the limited number of spells of the druid and you easily understand why the effectiveness of his dots can be crippled. I don't even mention that dots will clash with other spells of the same level you want to use. 

A streetfighter/ascendant using mortars with just Disintegrate+Gouging Strike+Deep Wounds (and you can add depending on the situations Recall Agony, Soul Ignition, Arterial Strike, Toxic Strike, Pernicious Cloud) has speed+accuracy and can keep the dots going the entire fight.

-45 fortitude is pretty easy and fast  to debuff on a party with Barbarian/chanter/ psion but of course some bosses have too much fortitude to land druid dot spells. Even still i also play on potd only and have been huge fan of ancient druids for long time. The dot damage gets ridicilously high  on later levels and with Power level, might and int stacking 

[Kaylon]

53 minutes ago, Dalzar said:

-45 fortitude is pretty easy and fast  to debuff on a party with Barbarian/chanter/ psion but of course some bosses have too much fortitude to land druid dot spells. Even still i also play on potd only and have been huge fan of ancient druids for long time. The dot damage gets ridicilously high  on later levels and with Power level, might and int stacking 

If it requires 3 other classes I wouldn't call that easy, and those debuffs aren't granted or free either... I didn't say it's not possible to play a dot druid in potd, I just said it's less effective than other options. 

[Boeroer]

I also never had real problems with AC Ancient with a DoT-build on PotD. In a party that is. In SSS encounters you might want to really hold back a bit though... and plan your casts carefully in order to not run out too soon or to waste spells on too high defenses... or too few enemies.

As solo char there would be many problems bc. of limited spell uses and low ACC/insufficient debuffs.

But I did not have the impression OP wanted to play solo?

Edit: as I said above, stuff like Gouging Strike and Brand Enemy and other stuff that is basically endless DoT is "infinitely" more powerful in the really hard fights - because it never ends - or your resources never run out.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Boeroer

[thelee]

7 hours ago, Kaylon said:

If you don't plan to play on potd then druid's dots are of course viable. However in potd enemies have also high HP, high corrode AR and also high fortitude. Fortitude is the highest defense in the game and is not that easy to debuff, especially in an AoE.

i would argue the exact opposite. dots, and druid dots especially, are extremely damage efficient, but require time to hit that efficiency. if you're on a lower difficulty or are so over-leveled for an encounter that it's over in like 10 seconds, the dots don't have time to work their magic. high enemy HP and high difficulty are successful niches, not a downside, for dots. [edit: e.g. a tier 2 autumn's decay will do 50% more base damage than a tier 5 blast of frost, and the damage will scale very generously with intellect unlike with blast of frost. there's a time discount factor for sure, but the point is that if you end the fight in a few casts, autumn's decay can't compare, but in any decently scaled fight, autumn's decay will overperform.]

yeah, fortitude is higher, but dots are still extremely effective even when they target fortitude. and AR is higher on potd, sure, but corrode is not a particularly hard damage type, compared to fire or frost. in my last run, my druid was damage king early on almost purely off of autumn's decay [note: which targets reflex], insect swarm, and infestation of maggots. (later on, they were still damage king, but for more cheese-y less dot-y reasons like avenging storm or greater maelstrom)

 

7 hours ago, Kaylon said:

I don't even mention that dots will clash with other spells of the same level you want to use. 

i mean this is literally true about using any ability. outside of a long fight w/ infinite resources, you're making choices.

 

3 hours ago, Dalzar said:

of course some bosses have too much fortitude to land druid dot spells.

like you suggest, a morningstar alone can easily put many bosses into easy-dotting range. pretty much the only time i didn't bother with dots are megabosses, which are more cheesy/technical encounters.

Edited February 8, 2022 by thelee

[Porkchopsandwiches247]

I never considered targeting Fort for most of the Druids DoTs to be a downside. Unlike PoE1, Fort is not always sky high, and plus there a TON of ways to lower fort. A Long Nights Drink + Spirit Frenzy Staggered + 1 Morningstar modal hit should drop it by 45 for particularly strong enemies, and by 20 in an AoE (if Im doing the calculations correct). Thats dead simple, it takes basically 0 setup. Thats one reason I love my Tempest. I see no reason NOT to bring a Chanter along personally, A Long Nights Drink is amazing even without using Fort targeting abilities.

And a Druid isnt just limited to Fort as a DoT. If you go Shifter, you can stack a stupid amount of DoTs from your boar form, which for some reason has a way longer DoT than a normal class spiritshift. You can count this as Deflection based DoT (I think its just deflection based?). And as thelee said, Autumns Decay targets reflex. Only DoT youre missing is Will based. And a lot of the DoT they bring is raw damage, even if Corrode is resisted (which is fairly rare)

When you actually run the numbers, Druid DoTs do a shocking amount of damage for the level you get them. Humble level 1 Touch of Rot is basically a level 6+ Wizard spell if it can run the its full duration.

And this is ignoring shenanigans like smacking an enemy with Enfeebled from Forbidden Fist or stacking Int and Crits for insanely long lasting DoTs. (Sidenote: might be worth checking out a Forbidden Fist + Shifter lol. A hell of a lot of fun)

[dgray62]

You are right that there are many ways to debuff FORT. The problem is that many of the tougher foes (particularly on PotD) have sky high FORT. Even so, if you debuff them and have ways to raise your ACC druids still have a important role to play when fighting them. Mention should be made of Taste of the Hunt, which is an amazing spell that is somewhat undervalued I think. You just have to land the primary attack via deflection, which is much easier to debuff. It heals you, and does a devastating raw DoT. It's single target unless you are using a multi-hit weapon like Whispers of the Endless Paths. If you attack with that weapon, the DoT will apply to everyone in the cone who is hit. And a FF shifter is tons of fun. You can cast your DoTs, shift, and then run around enfeebling everyone and extending the DoTs. Plus, in the boar form you'll apply a new DoT. Sadly you cannot cast Taste of the Hunt while shifted if playing a shifter, although you can if you play a different druid subclass.

[Boeroer]

Some of the enemies that have high fortitude also have resistances to CON and/or MIG afflictions so you are left with the Morning Star. There is no immunity to Body Blows. THat's why I like to combine Gauntlets of Greater Reliability and Willbreaker's "Make them Flinch" in combo with some miss-to-graze food. That way you can "Body Blow" any enemy rel. reliably no matter how bad your ACC is.

By the way: A wizard is nice as partner for a DoT-Druid because Ryngrim's Enervating Terror lowers Fortitude via Weakened but targets Will(!). And Will is so easy to debuff for a Wizard (hello Miasma of Dull-Mindedness + a club).

I once brought an SC Black Jacket just to be able to lower fort and will with Morning Star/FlailClub in an AoE with Clean Sweep (because the AoE is rather big for a weapon attack).

Edited February 9, 2022 by Boeroer

[thelee]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

I once brought an SC Black Jacket just to be able to lower fort and will with Morning Star/Flail in an AoE with Clean Sweep (because the AoE is rather big for a weapon attack).

*taking notes*

for some reason i never considered using an aoe weapon effect to spread the modal debuffs. that's slick, i gotta try that

[Boeroer]

Yeah. It also works with Clear Out of course - but Clean Sweep is a lot easier for catching a lot of enemies. Heart of Fury with very high INT is also cool because a) Barb can also add Staggered and b) has Leap which makes it very easy to go to the ideal spot for unleashing HoF+Body Blows. Too bad it's so expensive...

Whispers of the Wind is another option and doesn't need foes cuddling in a tight spot. But I have to say: WotW with a Morning Star feels like a sacrilege.   

[Drew8limbs]

On 2/7/2022 at 1:07 PM, Boeroer said:

Speaking of DoTs:

A Furyshaper can summon the Blood Ward. Unlike other health-draining effects like Old Siec - which are quite limited when it comes to draining health from AoE dmg, multihits, DoTs etc. - Blood Ward draws life from any kind of damage you deal, including DoT ticks and... everything basically.
This means that if you build a SC Furyhshaper with a lot of DoT sources (DoT weapon, poison, items like Hylea's Talons, Blood Source, Pather's Leap and so on) there will be a constant stream of incoming healing (as long as in range of the ward). Of course other damage (Carnage, Barbaric Retaliation, Barbaric Smash, Dazing Shout/Driving Roar and whatnot) will add more healing on top, but instantly instead of a steady trickle. Combine with regeneration gear such as Ring(s) of Greater Regeneration maybe and a pet that heals on kill and so on.
Maybe also a nice, unusual basis for a DoT build...? The Bloodsucker!  

Wards can be withdrawn by a fellow Priest and still function just fine. I believe it also works with Beetle Shell - but Withdraw is better bc. of the untargetable effect.   

yooo I've been trying to find information about furyshaper SC for a while but I couldn't find any!! This is great. Do you have recommended stats or anything? 

 

And again thanks for the big replies everyone, I just recently got mauled by a pit coming out of my martial arts studio so I've been out a bit as it nearly took me hand lmao but this is a very good bit of news às im starting to be able to use my hand again a bit 

[Dalzar]

16 minutes ago, Drew8limbs said:

yooo I've been trying to find information about furyshaper SC for a while but I couldn't find any!! This is great. Do you have recommended stats or anything? 

 

And again thanks for the big replies everyone, I just recently got mauled by a pit coming out of my martial arts studio so I've been out a bit as it nearly took me hand lmao but this is a very good bit of news às im starting to be able to use my hand again a bit 

You should Look up "what are barbarians good at?"- thread where @Boeroerintroduces different kind of barb builds. I have played furyshaper couple of Times (one Solo) and I like to max armor rating and use axes. Take blood frenzy, blood surge, retaliation, panther Leap, and driving roar and just stand near totem and roar mobs to pieces. High int, high per, dumped res and high might (for shout damage) is good to have.  Heart of fury is also nice to have but not necessary.

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Dalzar

[Drew8limbs]

6 hours ago, Dalzar said:

You should Look up "what are barbarians good at?"- thread where @Boeroerintroduces different kind of barb builds. I have played furyshaper couple of Times (one Solo) and I like to max armor rating and use axes. Take blood frenzy, blood surge, retaliation, panther Leap, and driving roar and just stand near totem and roar mobs to pieces. High int, high per, dumped res and high might (for shout damage) is good to have.  Heart of fury is also nice to have but not necessary.

 

 

Yeah it sounds super fun with bleed axes and stuff. Also the talons things from the deck of many things. 

Any unique axes or bleed weapons that are good? And I guess I use devil of caroc armor? I think I finally fixed a ssave that will have it available

[Dalzar]

1 hour ago, Drew8limbs said:

Yeah it sounds super fun with bleed axes and stuff. Also the talons things from the deck of many things. 

Any unique axes or bleed weapons that are good? And I guess I use devil of caroc armor? I think I finally fixed a ssave that will have it available

Slayers claw and magrans favor are kind of mandatory, but  oathbreaker and amra would work too. Even sanguine sword, stalkers patience etc. 

Devil of caroc is pretty light for this build. You need to have as much armor rating as possible so  Patinated plate (+juggernaut)   is good since sc barb do not really care about recovery. Blunting belt also gives you more AC. 

Edit: also keep your enemies dazed so cipher,wizard can help to keep you alive. Furyshaper can be a truly great healer in a party where every one has access to dot:s.  It really is old siec on steroids. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Dalzar

[dgray62]

Amra is really great for barbs, since it gives them basically a second circle of carnage. You can have the slayer's claw in your second weapon set, and when you activate frenzy switch weapons once (for berserker) or twice for everyone else to upgrade to energized.

[Drew8limbs]

I just played a ton on a SC Furyshaper and it was really really fun haha, only thing was waiting til late game to get the blood ward and not having enough rage to use abilities. Thanks guys this thread has made the dog attack really not as bad as it should have been for me 

[Dalzar]

1 minute ago, Drew8limbs said:

I just played a ton on a SC Furyshaper and it was really really fun haha, only thing was waiting til late game to get the blood ward and not having enough rage to use abilities. Thanks guys this thread has made the dog attack really not as bad as it should have been for me 

Fear ward is good too when you the +3 engagement shout and reduce Will/fortitude. Maybe  you could use spirit frenzy and willbreaker before going full dot-mode later on?