The All Things Political Topic - All people love themselves too much to be changed by something as simple as love.

[pmp10]

11 hours ago, Gorth said:

What will the new German chancellor do? 

Germany made that call long ago.
They have to temporarily make pretenses as NS2 is being used for energy blackmail before being even opened.

But that's just the price of doing business with Russia, I'm sure it's been factored in.
Ukraine's well being has no place it German calculations.

[Zoraptor]

13 hours ago, Gorth said:

On a more serious note... wondering where this is heading. I guess Putin got at least one thing out of it. Direct communication.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59818978

The 'Ukraine tensions' have literally happened every year since 2015. The 'direct communication' change is pretty much pure theatre. Russia hasn't had a permanent rep to NATO since 2018 because (iirc) NATO refused accreditation; and Russia recently withdrew (or threatened to) the remains of its mission in Brussels. In a months time the Russian soldiers will go home and the NATO leaders will pat themselves on the back about preventing the 'inevitable' invasion and pontificate on how relevant they are, and in a few months time after that the whole thing will repeat again with the next intake of Russian draft.

Quote

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59306223

Germany trapped between a rock and a hard place. Gas prices becoming a destabilizing factor in society, yet caving in to US and Ukrainian demands to not remove Ukraine from having the finger on the valves (and lots of free gas, which gets stolen by tonne). What will the new German chancellor do? Make his own people happy or the Ukrainian government (I somehow doubt the stolen gas and the billions of dollars of "transit fees" in any way benefits the common man in Ukraine)

 

As pmp10, they'll wait for things to, er, cool off, then certify Nord Stream 2 in a months time. They could also pressure Ukraine about nicking gas the gas- Russia's whole point is that they're sending the contracted amounts, it just isn't actually arriving as the whole amount- but if they do that (and they almost certainly already are) they'll do it privately as otherwise the US/ Poland/ Baltics would throw a tizzy.

In terms of stealing money, it would only stop if the west actually cared about it but as always it's just lip service, except the self interest of trying to stop locals demanding bungs from western companies. Yulia Timoshenko stole literally billions in a few years but she's never been anything other than a western darling. Everyone understands that the aid Ukraine gets from the EU and got from Russia was used for influence peddling and not to benefit ordinary Ukrainians even if they don't say it. In 30 years they've gone from the richest soviet republic to the poorest nation in Europe, and at this point they're even 20% behind Moldova who held that title for decades.

It's one of the most consistently poorly run countries in the world precisely because it's been in Russia's and the west's best interests to have crap leaders and advocate crap and ineffective policies.

[Gromnir]

9 hours ago, Gorth said:

Parents have a knack of hiding concerns from their kids, so if my parents were worried, they didn't show it. The adults in the neighbourhood was split between celebrating the lack of cars and the freedom to not constantly worry about traffic or having to go visit some distant relative on a Sunday to the grumpy ones who felt mortally insulted by having to actually walk or use a bicycle to go somewhere.

similar age. gonna say the pov o' folks in a rural farming/ranching community were decided not celebratory. try and keep a 1970s ranch or farm running w/o petrol is a challenge, and when you live remote and basic needs is in best o' times delivered less than predictable by folks such as @Keyrock to small local feed stores, folks who is also now having difficulty finding fuel, you might suspect critical shortages would begin to occur. rural and poor folks is, as is usual, the ones hit hardest when multinational trade organizations or Presidents decide to measure their manhood in a trade war or similar. meanwhile, folks in cities would have the price o eggs or cheese rise by a few pennies and they would be forced to go to the park on sundays as 'posed to a road trip... maybe need use public transportation a bit more frequent. 

is no reason why an eight-year-old @Gorthwould be aware o' how tough the situation were for similar aged kids living in the rural US, and am suspecting folks elsewhere had it even worse than we did. regardless, were not just a walk in the park for many.

...

as an aside, horse collars and manual plows is most assured not as ez to use as they look in old movies n' such. horses don't just natural take to a horse collar and plow, and those pieces o' equipment were likely in a sorry state o' repair, having not been used serious for decades, and often needing be shared 'mongst neighbors. 

aside, we were young enough such that it weren't 'til late seventies when the intentional insanity o' MAD began to sink in to our psyche, as often as not at 2am accompanied by some poor remembered but vivid nightmare. such swell memories makes us wanna punch the nose o' those who suggests a return to MAD or some kinda 21st century nuclear deterrent stance as being a swell idea. morons.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Gromnir

[rjshae]

60% of the Russian and Ukrainian economies are in exporting raw materials. That's not a formula for economic success.

[Gromnir]

HA! Good Fun!

[Zoraptor]

4 hours ago, rjshae said:

60% of the Russian and Ukrainian economies are in exporting raw materials. That's not a formula for economic success.

Not sure there really is a formula for economic success any more. At least raw materials (inc food, and for Russia, energy) are things that will always be needed. Most of the Service economies are bubbles waiting to pop, underpinned by fantasy and money printing.

[Gromnir]

is arguable whether or not there is a formula success, but is most certain that the ukranian and russian model o' being overwhelming tethered to a single volatile export will most assured not be part o' the conversation. 

converse, if you wanna discuss bass ackwards formulas, the ukranians and russians is most assured gonna eventual get mention as exemplars o' flaw.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[BruceVC]

3 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Not sure there really is a formula for economic success any more. At least raw materials (inc food, and for Russia, energy) are things that will always be needed. Most of the Service economies are bubbles waiting to pop, underpinned by fantasy and money printing.

Their still  is a proven " best " way to manage any economy and its having a diversified economy meaning your GDP is not all about one sector or largely dependent on one sector. This information is freely available for every country in the world and typically economic sectors include manufacturing, agriculture, mining, financial services, tourism, public sector spending, trade and construction

The sanctions against Russia mean for years it has been largely been dependant on its commodities like oil and gas to drive GDP and Ukraine I imagine is similar but Ukraines economy is much weaker and more ineffective  and reliant on economic aid from its friends in mostly Western country

 

[Agiel]

Hey, there's even a name for this effect. The few economies that were inoculated against it such as Norway were able to weather the shock in commodities prices due to pre-existing attitudes towards a storage economy, transparent financial disclosures, as well as diversified industries that were competitive with other developed-world economies where Soviet industries in areas like civil aircraft experienced wholesale collapse once exposed to foreign competition.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Agiel

[Chairchucker]

I think it's good that Ghislaine is going prison, or jail or whichever one it is, forever, but also I kind of wanted her to roll over on every single rich and powerful rapist that she and Epstein ever enabled, even if that meant she never went to prison. I understand her desire not to get murdered, however.

[BruceVC]

52 minutes ago, Chairchucker said:

I think it's good that Ghislaine is going prison, or jail or whichever one it is, forever, but also I kind of wanted her to roll over on every single rich and powerful rapist that she and Epstein ever enabled, even if that meant she never went to prison. I understand her desire not to get murdered, however.

I had this debate with my stepmom yesterday because she also believes that her and Epstein know names of the rich and powerful

But surely if that was true they would, Epstein included, have cut a deal? People in the US rat out the Mexican cartels and go into protected custody and are fine

I just dont believe the people who participated in their licentious sexual activities are more dangerous than the worse criminal syndicates in the world ? Unless you believe the US government is actually the same as Russian Mod or Italian Mob and other criminal gangs and somehow the people involved, like Prince Andrew in the UK, has the influence to arrange executions  of people in US custody ?

I know we all love a good conspiracy theory but I am not convinced  and  I guess we will never know ?

 

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, Chairchucker said:

I think it's good that Ghislaine is going prison, or jail or whichever one it is, forever, but also I kind of wanted her to roll over on every single rich and powerful rapist that she and Epstein ever enabled, even if that meant she never went to prison. I understand her desire not to get murdered, however.

[BruceVC]

2 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

GD that is terrible 

[Guard Dog]

51 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I

I just dont believe the people who participated in their licentious sexual activities are more dangerous than the worse criminal syndicates in the world ? Unless you believe the US government is actually the same as Russian Mod or Italian Mob and other criminal gangs and somehow the people involved, like Prince Andrew in the UK, has the influence to arrange executions  of people in US custody ?

 

 

On your first point I do not think the people who paid them to have sex with children (let's call it exactly what it is Bruce) are more dangerous than the mob or the people like Epstein and Maxwell who trap children for that purpose. But there are hundreds more Epstein's lining up for their money right now and the deviants and pedophiles will beat a path to their door. Exposing the names of these, particularly leaders and "prominent citizens" is the only justice those kids are likely to get outside of a longshot civil suit. Now that Maxwell is convicted I'd certainly be amenable to her getting a deal on the length and location of her sentence in exchange for names and dates. 

As for your second point, I doubt very much the US government would order or be complicit in the murder of a prisoner in US custody. But it still happens all the time. Through error, ill luck, or sometimes the right people looking the other way. 

[Chairchucker]

13 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I had this debate with my stepmom yesterday because she also believes that her and Epstein know names of the rich and powerful

But surely if that was true they would, Epstein included, have cut a deal? People in the US rat out the Mexican cartels and go into protected custody and are fine

I just dont believe the people who participated in their licentious sexual activities are more dangerous than the worse criminal syndicates in the world ? Unless you believe the US government is actually the same as Russian Mod or Italian Mob and other criminal gangs and somehow the people involved, like Prince Andrew in the UK, has the influence to arrange executions  of people in US custody ?

I know we all love a good conspiracy theory but I am not convinced  and  I guess we will never know ?

 

I'll try to address this sentence by sentence I guess.

Maxwell and Epstein have been photographed with a number of rich and/or powerful white dudes. It's not a matter of 'belief', it is a matter of public record that they were acquainted with these men, and some of the victims specifically stated that those men were involved. Trump specifically name dropped Epstein in one of his speeches.

Some people certainly believe that Epstein would've cut a deal if he hadn't died in mysterious circumstances.

I definitely think absurdly rich white dudes have more power and influence than criminal syndicates, yes.

[BruceVC]

5 hours ago, Chairchucker said:

I'll try to address this sentence by sentence I guess.

Maxwell and Epstein have been photographed with a number of rich and/or powerful white dudes. It's not a matter of 'belief', it is a matter of public record that they were acquainted with these men, and some of the victims specifically stated that those men were involved. Trump specifically name dropped Epstein in one of his speeches.

Some people certainly believe that Epstein would've cut a deal if he hadn't died in mysterious circumstances.

I definitely think absurdly rich white dudes have more power and influence than criminal syndicates, yes.

Is it about race having this kind of influence and power, do you not think rich arabs, mexicans and Japanese people have the same possible  influence  as  rich white people have? ( Im just teasing and you dont need to answer but  you brought up race )

I am not suggesting that Maxwell and Epstein werent social butterfly's and entertained rich and powerful people, this is well documented and known. But if you follow their social history they hosted dozens of parties through the years and many of their parties were not just sexual parties with children

So take Trump, just because he knew them that doesnt mean  Trump participated in sex with underage girls

Anyway it doesnt change the fact they both paedophiles and they should rot in jail. The point I am trying to make is that I am not convinced that the rich and powerful people that participated in their sexual parties and or normal partied  arranged the execution of Epstein in jail, I believe he committed suicide because I would have done in the same thing as him faced with life in jail

 It will be interesting to see if she cuts a deal like GD mentioned?

[BruceVC]

Happy NY everyone, I am feeling very rough and hungover today. I blame my sister because she allowed us to carry to drinking without cautioning us to not drink so much 

[Chairchucker]

8 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Is it about race having this kind of influence and power, do you not think rich arabs, mexicans and Japanese people have the same possible  influence  as  rich white people have? ( Im just teasing and you dont need to answer but  you brought up race )

Depends on the country. In the USA and UK, power and money (same thing in some cases) tends to be in the hands of old white guys. In Saudi Arabia, sure, a sheik could probs make you disappear.

 

EDIT: whereas in China it might be dangerous to talk about a former communist party leader, for example.

Edited January 1, 2022 by Chairchucker

[Gromnir]

HA! Good Fun!

ps the way rich folks in the US screw the system is either they pay enough to keep their dirt from ever being made public or once their actions is revealed, they take advantage o' a legal system which very much favours defendants and then hire the absolute best legal representation possible. try and imagine all the unlikely events necessary to make an epstein murder-in-jail possible. a jail suicide takes creativity and is obvious not gonna be a drug overdose kinda thing. go ahead and try and hang or suffocate somebody w/o defensive wounds. try and pay somebody who is likely an ordinary jail guard and NOT a contract killer to hang or suffocate somebody, and then hide any kinda money trail. etc. US and ny is not like china or saudi arabia or russia where there is control o' media and a system already in place to protect those in power. if there were a sudden change in jail personnel, such would be discovered and if media were prevented from discovering, that would also be news. and if you think the trumps or clintons have some kinda undue influence, the problem is there is just as many powerful people in the US who woulda wanna see trumps and clintons caught and they would be using their influence to make wrongdoing public.

is not as if there is some weird pattern o' US epsteins neither. how many people has made extreme public accusations which has damaged famous people? quite a few. 

again, is the fact maxwell and epstein were able to get away with their shenanigan for years which is the kinda thing rich people in the US is capable o' doing to cheat justice. 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Gromnir

[BruceVC]

46 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

HA! Good Fun!

ps the way rich folks in the US screw the system is either they pay enough to keep their dirt from ever being made public or once their actions is revealed, they take advantage o' a legal system which very much favours defendants and then hire the absolute best legal representation possible. try and imagine all the unlikely events necessary to make an epstein murder-in-jail possible. a jail suicide takes creativity and is obvious not gonna be a drug overdose kinda thing. go ahead and try and hang or suffocate somebody w/o defensive wounds. try and pay somebody who is likely an ordinary jail guard and NOT a contract killer to hang or suffocate somebody, and then hide any kinda money trail. etc. US and ny is not like china or saudi arabia or russia where there is control o' media and a system already in place to protect those in power. if there were a sudden change in jail personnel, such would be discovered and if media were prevented from discovering, that would also be news. and if you think the trumps or clintons have some kinda undue influence, the problem is there is just as many powerful people in the US who woulda wanna see trumps and clintons caught and they would be using their influence to make wrongdoing public.

is not as if there is some weird pattern o' US epsteins neither. how many people has made extreme public accusations which has damaged famous people? quite a few. 

again, is the fact maxwell and epstein were able to get away with their shenanigan for years which is the kinda thing rich people in the US is capable o' doing to cheat justice. 

Im not sure if Im still on your ignore list but this is a good post and a better way of explaining how unlikely it is that Epstein was murdered while in jail by the rich and powerful. And you make several pertinent points foremost of them being  how difficult it would be to kill him and leave no evidence but also how their is absolutely a free media with influence in the US, unlike Russia and  China as you mentioned, and many people who would love to publicly embarrass and implicate the likes of Trump and others if they were truly involved

Its like the absurd and offensive conspiracy theory that 9/11 was committed by the Jews or the US to itself and yet  not one shred of compelling evidence has ever and will ever be found to corroborate this view. And after Bush you had 2 terms of Obama and the Democrats and you would think that if the 9/11 was indeed committed by the US the Democrats and liberal media houses would have uncovered it ?

And yet their are still a small group of people who believe AQ is not responsible.Like I said earlier, we all love a good conspiracy theory....just not me unless its harmless like Elvis is still alive 

[Darkpriest]

@Gromnir

Wasn't Eps on a paylist for some clandestine us agency in the past? 

[Gorth]

6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

their 

There dammit! THERE !!! Stop the violence against the Aussie language

[majestic]

38 minutes ago, Gorth said:

There dammit! THERE !!! Stop the violence against the Aussie language

You funny Gorthfuscious !

Surly you not suggesting their is a difference between there, their and they're ?

Edited January 2, 2022 by majestic

[Zoraptor]

11 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

Wasn't Eps on a paylist for some clandestine us agency in the past? 

He was meant to be running honeypots for Mossad, though there isn't any actual evidence, just a load of speculation.

Ghislaine has a very proximal relationship with Mossad though, through her father who was definitely one of their assets.

[BruceVC]

10 hours ago, Gorth said:

There dammit! THERE !!! Stop the violence against the Aussie language

My spellcheck picks it up but since this is a gaming forum and not an English course I dont always update it , sorry Gorthfuscious. I will endeavor to do better with the correct usage of their\there 

 

10 hours ago, majestic said:

You funny Gorthfuscious !

Surly you not suggesting their is a difference between there, their and they're ?

Look at you, you little grammar Nazi  ( and thats just a joke, its not about your countries support for the Nazis during WW2. I feel I have to clarify certain comments I make because people take me seriously sometimes )