Ivan the Terrible Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 Which game romances have you found trite and uninteresting? Which have you found enthralling, if any? For example, the BG2 Anomen romance was flawed from the get-go because Anomen was such an incredibly self-absorbed twit. The Aerie romance was flawed because she was constantly whining and crying about her wings until you wanted to hack off her limbs, too, and give her something to REALLY whine about. By contrast, I really like the Fall-From-Grace 'romance' from PS:T. Everything is implied; any feelings that are there are hidden for pretty much the whole game, but you can kinda sorta detect their presence as you go along. Perhaps not everyone's cup of tea, but I like it much better than the typical teenage infatuation romances of most Bioware RPGs. I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you But I get the feeling that you don't like it What's with all the screaming? You like monkeys, you like ponies Maybe you don't like monsters so much Maybe I used too many monkeys Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
NInjaPirate Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 They should make it where it doesn't seem like you are in third grade.
Darth Jebus Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 Which game romances have you found trite and uninteresting? Which have you found enthralling, if any? For example, the BG2 Anomen romance was flawed from the get-go because Anomen was such an incredibly self-absorbed twit. The Aerie romance was flawed because she was constantly whining and crying about her wings until you wanted to hack off her limbs, too, and give her something to REALLY whine about. By contrast, I really like the Fall-From-Grace 'romance' from PS:T. Everything is implied; any feelings that are there are hidden for pretty much the whole game, but you can kinda sorta detect their presence as you go along. Perhaps not everyone's cup of tea, but I like it much better than the typical teenage infatuation romances of most Bioware RPGs. I'm all about the romance in PS:T. It's implications were deep. It's the whole subtlety and the notion of less is more is what I really liked about it.
Enoch Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 The best part of the BG2 romances was the background music that kicked in when you were talking to Aerie or Jahiera (Aerie's has the slight edge). Best music in the game. That's all I want to say about BG2. Although I agree that the PS:T character-interactions are certainly worthy of emulation, I don't necessarily agree w/r/t Grace. It seems like there was supposed to be a lot more to her character that never made it into the game. Sure, it had the poetic ending and all, but there really wasn't much substance to the relationship. Anyhow, I say forget romance-- the real model to follow from PS:T is Dak'kon. Quality character interaction can stand on it's own without the simple titilation of getting to nail hot elven/fiendish/alien chicks & dudes.
Maria Caliban Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time Viconia Fall-from-Grace is an interesting example. I honestly think the romance was one sided, very little implied that she had interest in the nameless one. I found the Nameless One and the ghost of his ex to be quite touching, however. Anachronx has an interesting example of romantic interests as well. Fallout 2 had one of the worst 'romances' ever. My usual high charisma character is chatting with a girl and suddenly I'm making out with her. What? I actually can't think of that many games were romance is important. Anyone want to add to my list? Prince of Persia Planescape: Torment NeverWinter Nights Bulder's (sp?) Gate Anachronx KotOR **edit** "Titillation" What titillation though? "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
Gorth Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 I actually can't think of that many games were romance is important. Anyone want to add to my list? Doomdarks Revenge. All about grand scale war for the sake of love lost... the game is probably older than half the boardmembers though. Heart of Winter. (IWD expansion), Ichasaracht (spelling?) is wrecking havock on the world after the death of her mate... A stack of FF games (I don't know any of them) ? It would probably turn out to be a very long list... “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Ivan the Terrible Posted June 5, 2004 Author Posted June 5, 2004 Fall-from-Grace is an interesting example. I honestly think the romance was one sided, very little implied that she had interest in the nameless one. I found the Nameless One and the ghost of his ex to be quite touching, however. Well, it's made pretty clear at the end that she has some pretty strong feelings for you....though whether that's just strong friendship or love, it's hard to say. Which suits me just fine. I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you But I get the feeling that you don't like it What's with all the screaming? You like monkeys, you like ponies Maybe you don't like monsters so much Maybe I used too many monkeys Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
Gorth Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 Well, it's made pretty clear at the end that she has some pretty strong feelings for you....though whether that's just strong friendship or love, it's hard to say. Which suits me just fine. Ivan the Sailor... A girlfriend on each plane of The Abyss B) “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
nightcleaver Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 Compared to movie romances, in-game romances are pretty crappy. Still, I play them, and I enjoy them. I tried the aerie romance - it made me gag, mostly, but it was "Sweet" at times. I could never get the Jaheira romance to work, for some reason, or for that matter the Viconia romance. Maybe I just skipped through the game too fast? Anyway, PS: T romances were good for computer game romances. For a computer game, I think that was a perfectly good amount of it. I sort of like the full-story side-quest treatment of romances a little better, just because there's a little more time for things to develop - even then, though I've found romances strangely lacking. I liked the Carth development stage better than the Bastila development stage, and I liked the Bastila ending stage better than the Carth ending stage. Frankly, it seemed like their was flirtation and interest - but the whole marriage thing? Didn't make a lot of sense, especially as there was no physical chemistry even IMPLIED. The Bastila romance starts out with only really obnoxious flirtation choices. I'm sure she'd get mad at you if you tried to flirt with her in more subtle ways, too, and you'd still get the ever-interesting, but admittedly over-used "you're cute when you're angry" line of dialogues. The ending I have no complaints about - it's satisfying, heart-breaking, tragic, and sweet at the end and leading up to it, starting from the first talk she has with you about how great she thinks you are (which is weird, taken out of context). I would've loved to talk to her more in depth about force and stuff, or at least tried to, just in order to make those dialogues actually mean something other than, "Here's Bastila, she starts out as an annoying little Jedi Princess". I'm sure that, too, would've made her a more palatable character to the public at large. And I'm sure more depth to the Carth/Revan relationship, male or female, would've helped for that end, as well - less annoying to some, for sure. I think all of this could've been solved with more depth on Revan's end; Sure, he/she might be developed as a character, but not enough to make a difference on the romance end. Frankly, Revan was a fool-tool and a half with no set personality of his own; understandable, when people scream and cry for more customizability and less linearity. To be honest, I sort of hate the whole "go do whatever you want thing." Not only do I dislike it because, well, I hate lots of choices (half-joking), but the choices you CAN make in a computer game only go so far. Thus, it's better for the sake of depth and for me, INTEREST, to go ahead and be linear and set your character relatively in stone. So what, you have a little less choice; at least my brain isn't frying itself trying to put any sort of meaning to it all.
Ivan the Terrible Posted June 5, 2004 Author Posted June 5, 2004 The Bastila romance starts out with only really obnoxious flirtation choices. I'm sure she'd get mad at you if you tried to flirt with her in more subtle ways, too, and you'd still get the ever-interesting, but admittedly over-used "you're cute when you're angry" line of dialogues. The ending I have no complaints about - it's satisfying, heart-breaking, tragic, and sweet at the end and leading up to it, starting from the first talk she has with you about how great she thinks you are (which is weird, taken out of context). The end of the Bastila romance was actually the only part I really liked. The first game I played, I didn't even know the romance existed; I chatted with Bastila without hitting on her (since the options for hitting on her were so godawful), but I never got to the 'kiss' before the Leviathan. As such, when I announced that I loved her in order to save her on the Star Forge, it was actually a really effective moment because I didn't see it coming. Probably still my favorite moment in the game, and why the Carth romance has always lacked the 'punch' of the Bastila romance, IMHO. I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you But I get the feeling that you don't like it What's with all the screaming? You like monkeys, you like ponies Maybe you don't like monsters so much Maybe I used too many monkeys Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
nightcleaver Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 Yeah, but I prefer the really excessively long, drawn out, over-philosophical version of that same thing
Maria Caliban Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 I don't think it's fair to equate CRPG romances to book romances in terms of quality. A book can peer into the minds of its characters and an author has several thousand years of book romances to draw from. A game maker is trying to create an interactive romance but one that is only a 5% of the story, if that. Novel writers can assume that their audience will sit through several hundred pages of relationship developing but not so with PC games. A developer has to do a balancing act. Besides, the majority of novels have poorly developed romances "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
Shdy314 Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 Go ahead and say how wrong I am but the only good part of the story in FF8 was the romance which I enjoyed immensely. That and most of the other romances mentioned here. Annah, Viconia, FFG, etc.
Dr. Lobotomy Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 The "romance" in GTA3 was great, especially the gunshot. Even though there wasn't any choice, we all know that we'd have done the same thing in his place. The romance with Bastila is messed up on so many levels, the fact that you're Revan, the fact that she doesn't tell you, the bond, her attitude(Is she a natural b****? Is she insecure? Is she covering for the dark Revan related secret? Something else?), the tendency of light side dark side switching both do... Hell, I don't want to know what kind of psycho kids will result from that union. Jaheira, there's something about a girl who can see her husband's eviscerated and mutilated corpse on a slab then start doing another guy within a couple weeks that just doesn't sound right in my book... Aerie, whine whine whine whine oh look, a beholder, *gets the whiny pain in the backside petrified* Thank you. Viconia, well, you don't expect much from an endoctrinated Drow female cleric, but I thought it was the best of the BG2 romances. The choices of keeping her evil, bringing her to the good side, and the fact that her non romance dialogue and party banter was better than the other two broads. NWN's OC :Come on, gimme that upgraded trinket already and shut up. Fallout 2: Whores, Nymphos, Shotgun weddings, Porno, Blow-up dolls, Francis the supermutant and a fairly large amount of drugs and money involved... Judging by the internet nowadays, all that sounds about right. FFIV, A ninja, a green haired summoner babe with a whip, love that could never be... all that was missing was a red guitar and they'd have had the best romantic tragedy ever. Ninja Gaiden 1,2,3 A ninja and a CIA operative fall in love while some transdimensional Cthulhu-lite crackpots and their insane army of dudes with bazookas, infinte clones and psycho birds from hell try to conquer the world or eradicate all life or something like that, I know it involves swords. Just Wow
nightcleaver Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 I don't think it's fair to equate CRPG romances to book romances in terms of quality. A book can peer into the minds of its characters and an author has several thousand years of book romances to draw from. A game maker is trying to create an interactive romance but one that is only a 5% of the story, if that. Novel writers can assume that their audience will sit through several hundred pages of relationship developing but not so with PC games. A developer has to do a balancing act. Besides, the majority of novels have poorly developed romances
DemonKing Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 The problem occurs when romances are there because people seem to expect them - not because they add anything to the overall game/plot. For example; I played through KOTOR the first time with a female character - but the only NPC I could romance was the extremely annoying Carth. Frankly I would rather have a relationship with Canderous, Joelle or even the wookie or HK47 for that matter! So I ignored Carth and rarely travelled with him. Not romancing Carth didn't seem to have any impact on my experience or make the end-game any less rewarding. It was clearly a tack-on solely for people that equate CRPGs with NPC Romances...which frankly is not part of the core CRPG experience to my mind. Now if there was a subtle romance that furthered the overall story-arc then I would be all for it...but this constant, stilted and artificial "It seems Carth has something on his mind, maybe you should talk to him" kind of romance adds nothing to games, IMHO.
Plutospawn Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 Maybe the real problem with these romances are that the characters you get to chose from to romance are generally extremes. Aerie's all fluffy and naive and Bastila's a frigid bitch. Carth seemed to me like the most average, but then they had to toss in a "traumatic past" for him to be scarred and whine about. I guess there's few well-adjusted folk in these fantastical realms, heavily medicated in a galaxy far far away.
Child of Flame Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 Prince of Persia: The Sands of TimeViconia Fall-from-Grace is an interesting example. I honestly think the romance was one sided, very little implied that she had interest in the nameless one. I found the Nameless One and the ghost of his ex to be quite touching, however. Anachronx has an interesting example of romantic interests as well. Fallout 2 had one of the worst 'romances' ever. My usual high charisma character is chatting with a girl and suddenly I'm making out with her. What? I actually can't think of that many games were romance is important. Anyone want to add to my list? Prince of Persia Planescape: Torment NeverWinter Nights Bulder's (sp?) Gate Anachronx KotOR **edit** "Titillation" What titillation though? The romance in the latest PoP game pwnt. Though it wasn't an RPG so you don't have any choice in pursuing it, it was awesome. I love the ending. Cakolukia. JT B)
Quiquag Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 I like the romance in the legend of Zelda between Link and King Zora. I just have one question...why is romance such a big issue with some people here? Do you want to play a Jedi or play some kind of love story RPG? They should make a 90210 RPG for those of you who put such high value on the romance subplot.
will_990 Posted June 5, 2004 Posted June 5, 2004 I like the romance in the legend of Zelda between Link and King Zora. I just have one question...why is romance such a big issue with some people here? Do you want to play a Jedi or play some kind of love story RPG? They should make a 90210 RPG for those of you who put such high value on the romance subplot. Well, I guess most people (including myself by all means) simply want a lovestory in the game because 1. romances and s...... attraction play some major role in our real life (for most people, actually). 2. Its the kind of doing something "forbidden" when actually playing a Jedi...imo. But it has to be far better than in Kotor1, I agree with that.
Qui-Gon Fishing Posted June 6, 2004 Posted June 6, 2004 I like the romance in the legend of Zelda between Link and King Zora. I just have one question...why is romance such a big issue with some people here? Do you want to play a Jedi or play some kind of love story RPG? They should make a 90210 RPG for those of you who put such high value on the romance subplot. Both the PT and OT Star Wars movies had romance between the characters and by gosh, that's what I want to in order to satisfy the Star Wars experience that I expect from KOTOR2. If romance isn't your cup of tea or an essential ingredient in what you deem to be your own ideal Star Wars roleplaying experience, then feel free to skip right past that part in the game when the option for romance comes up. If you want to bash people who put a heavy empthasis on having of romance plot in a game based on Star Wars, then you should probably go bash George Lucas for having romance being such an important part of the Star Wars magic as well.
EnderAndrew Posted June 7, 2004 Posted June 7, 2004 I like the romance in the legend of Zelda between Link and King Zora. I just have one question...why is romance such a big issue with some people here? Do you want to play a Jedi or play some kind of love story RPG? They should make a 90210 RPG for those of you who put such high value on the romance subplot. Equating romance to modern day soap-operas just demonstrates your understanding of the subject matter. Is it that you're 15, or just socially inept? On the topic of good romances, I enjoyed P:T, FF8, and FF10.
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