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18 minutes ago, Malcador said:

I forget, why do people get bent up about virtue signaling ?

They enjoy being mad.

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1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

Imo, virtue signaling is less about <subject>, and more about "look at me! look at me!". But I could be wrong. :shrugz:

Actually I think it’s more like appeasing the bear hoping it will eat you last.

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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You really only need to look at the comments of these 'virtue signals' to see why they are important. There is a ton of people that get riled up when a company puts up a rainbow flag. Some of them are just ignorant, some are bigoted. The LGBTQ community is not treated well in our society. When people stop being offended by the symbol, it will no longer be necessary. 

But yeah, it is funny to see this particular company take part. Looks like bigots will need to shop elsewhere for their missiles!

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In the modern world it’s not enough to just not be discriminatory. If you’re not waving the flag then you are a homophobic bigot even if you’re not. 

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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31 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

You really only need to look at the comments of these 'virtue signals' to see why they are important. There is a ton of people that get riled up when a company puts up a rainbow flag. Some of them are just ignorant, some are bigoted. The LGBTQ community is not treated well in our society. When people stop being offended by the symbol, it will no longer be necessary. 

But yeah, it is funny to see this particular company take part. Looks like bigots will need to shop elsewhere for their missiles!

The true gems are the comments that say "Stuff like this makes me hate gays".  Just is comic to understand the reasoning there.

25 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

In the modern world it’s not enough to just not be discriminatory. If you’re not waving the flag then you are a homophobic bigot even if you’re not. 

Well, for at least this example, an arms manufacturer has enough reasons for people to dislike it. 

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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6 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

In the modern world it’s not enough to just not be discriminatory. If you’re not waving the flag then you are a homophobic bigot even if you’re not. 

Dude, what? That is super hyperbole. What company or person has been taken down because they don't wave the rainbow flag?

Chick-fil-a and Hobby Lobby seem to be doing fine despite donating large sums of money to anti-lgbtq legislation. Those are companies with CEO's actively voicing opinions, so I don't know where you get the idea that anyone is getting castigated for not taking a stance. 

We literally just transitioned from a president who was elected on a very conservative platform. He certainly wasn't waving a rainbow flag. He still managed 75 million votes in the loss. Gay marriage has only been legal for 6 years. We are very much in the thick of things when it comes to the civil rights of the LGBTQ community. 

My daughter is gay. I don't want her to have to deal with discrimination. I want her to be able to get married and have the same rights as I did. But I know she will still face challenges, and even though it may be totally silly that a missile company is flying a flag that makes her feel accepted in this society, it still makes me feel a bit better about her future. 

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5 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

Dude, what? That is super hyperbole. What company or person has been taken down because they don't wave the rainbow flag?

People will write mean things about them online.  But that's all people ever write online, really.  But can't really see the horror in the absolute worst case in that corporations use rainbow logos for a month. 

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

In the modern world it’s not enough to just not be discriminatory. If you’re not waving the flag then you are a homophobic bigot even if you’re not. 

Not in my definition of being homophobic, you dont need to wave a LGBT flag or even say in public " I have friends in the LGBT community. You can even object to things like gay marriage for religious reasons. That doesnt make you homophobic because the law and Constitution decides this for us in most of our countries 

Its what you say in public and how you act  in public towards LGBT that matters, so for example if you go to the local pub and you having drinks with friends and you see a gay couple walk in to the bar....how will you react and what will you do ?

Will you walk up to them and start insulting them because they gay....thats real homophobia 

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Posted (edited)

But I think that can be parts of the problem though? Just look at this single page of a thread for examples: "you mad bro? / after all why shouldnt they do it?". These opinions are already baked in to the mindset. When we dont leave room for any other interpretations, then theres no room for conversation. Imo. :lol:

Edited by Gfted1
Ninjad' by BVC. Reply was directed to Malc
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Give me the eyes, so I see
Give me ears, so I hear
Give me love, so I know what love is
Give me freedom to think, to believe
In something
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15 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

But I think that can be parts of the problem though? Just look at this single page of a thread for examples: "you mad bro? / after all why shouldnt they do it?". These opinions are already baked in to the mindset. When we dont leave room for any other interpretations, then theres no room for conversation. Imo. :lol:

That  is why we must continue to debate these topics without making assumptions or generalizations , no they dont need to wave the LGBT flag and we dont all need to " bend the knee  " in support of BLM unless we want to and we have our own reasons 

This doesnt make you a racist or homophobic, other people are perfectly entitled to their opinions on these matters. But people, for example,  who support LGBT have different views on this and thats okay 8)

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

You can even object to things like gay marriage for religious reasons.

That certainly is homophobic. Objecting to someone else's marriage based on religion is bad. You don't have to marry a man, but you don't need to tell two adults what their marriage needs to look like.

If someone objects to a bi-racial marriage, would you consider that racist? 

Edited by Hurlsnot
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4 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

That certainly is homophobic. Objecting to someone else's marriage based on religion is bad. You don't have to marry a man, but you don't need to tell two adults what their marriage needs to look like.

If someone objects to a bi-racial marriage, would you consider that racist? 

You make some good points here and I know this is a contentious point and just to be clear I personally support same sex marriage 

But you can achieve the same objective without trying to change the definition of marriage and how different religions incorrectly  think marriage is sacrosanct to them, when its not because people were getting married from about  4000 years ago which is longer than most of our established religions have existed 

https://theweek.com/articles/528746/origins-marriage#:~:text=The first recorded evidence of marriage ceremonies uniting,little to do with love or with religion.

 Sometimes people misunderstand the definition of marriage, I dont like to think its because they homophobic because sometimes its really because of their interpretation of scripture

 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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2 hours ago, Hurlsnot said:

Dude, what? That is super hyperbole. What company or person has been taken down because they don't wave the rainbow flag?

Chick-fil-a and Hobby Lobby seem to be doing fine despite donating large sums of money to anti-lgbtq legislation. Those are companies with CEO's actively voicing opinions, so I don't know where you get the idea that anyone is getting castigated for not taking a stance. 

We literally just transitioned from a president who was elected on a very conservative platform. He certainly wasn't waving a rainbow flag. He still managed 75 million votes in the loss. Gay marriage has only been legal for 6 years. We are very much in the thick of things when it comes to the civil rights of the LGBTQ community. 

My daughter is gay. I don't want her to have to deal with discrimination. I want her to be able to get married and have the same rights as I did. But I know she will still face challenges, and even though it may be totally silly that a missile company is flying a flag that makes her feel accepted in this society, it still makes me feel a bit better about her future. 

I should have said that is the perception of it.

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

You make some good points here and I know this is a contentious point and just to be clear I personally support same sex marriage 

But you can achieve the same objective without trying to change the definition of marriage and how different religions incorrectly  think marriage is sacrosanct to them, when its not because people were getting married from about  4000 years ago which is longer than most of our established religions have existed 

https://theweek.com/articles/528746/origins-marriage#:~:text=The first recorded evidence of marriage ceremonies uniting,little to do with love or with religion.

 Sometimes people misunderstand the definition of marriage, I dont like to think its because they homophobic because sometimes its really because of their interpretation of scripture

 

Ask someone who has been divorced twice. People like us know what a f——-g marriage really is. My religious conviction teaches me that God loves us all. Can’t imagine he would involve himself in something like marriage if that were true LOL

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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1 hour ago, Malcador said:

It was both disgraceful and criminal behavior slapping a president in the face, they need to be harsh and ensure jail time 

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"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

Ask someone who has been divorced twice. People like us know what a f——-g marriage really is. 

Listen to this man, he knows.

I lucked out and didn't have kids with the one I was with, if so I probably would be dead now via bullet to temple.

 

“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Ask someone who has been divorced twice. People like us know what a f——-g marriage really is.

I dunno. That's like asking someone who barely passed Engineering to tea.....  I see what you mean.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Since we are slightly on the subject, this guy got his job back by court order:

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/national-international/byron-tanner-cross-reinstated-transgender-pronouns-virginia/2564721/?_osource=SocialFlowFB_BAYBrand&fbclid=IwAR1MDF4wmvUgheZC2o3OywZ0G6AC4AJ0TY3NqICB4F4CHJBMe2K-SgvGOlM

You know, I've had about 2 transgender students in 20 years of teaching. It's not a very common situation, and in elementary it would be even more rare. So this guy was basically protesting over something he will almost never actually encounter. Also, I tend to call my students what they want. I've got a ton of kids with hard to pronounce names, and they prefer to be called something else. It would be a **** move to keep butchering their names. So this guy is just a **** using religion as his excuse.

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1 hour ago, ComradeYellow said:

Listen to this man, he knows.

I lucked out and didn't have kids with the one I was with, if so I probably would be dead now via bullet to temple.

 

The question is who fired the shot you or her!

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

Since we are slightly on the subject, this guy got his job back by court order:

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/national-international/byron-tanner-cross-reinstated-transgender-pronouns-virginia/2564721/?_osource=SocialFlowFB_BAYBrand&fbclid=IwAR1MDF4wmvUgheZC2o3OywZ0G6AC4AJ0TY3NqICB4F4CHJBMe2K-SgvGOlM

You know, I've had about 2 transgender students in 20 years of teaching. It's not a very common situation, and in elementary it would be even more rare. So this guy was basically protesting over something he will almost never actually encounter. Also, I tend to call my students what they want. I've got a ton of kids with hard to pronounce names, and they prefer to be called something else. It would be a **** move to keep butchering their names. So this guy is just a **** using religion as his excuse.

I feel sorry for God. He has been blamed for a lot of stupid s—t over the centuries.

Edited by Guard Dog

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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7 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

Imo, virtue signaling is less about <subject>, and more about "look at me! look at me!". But I could be wrong. :shrugz:

For companies it's simply PR, everything that comes from their official accounts is designed to buff their image and let them sell more stuff. I do wonder if Raytheon has the same profile if seen from, say, a Saudi IP and companies that believe strongly in human rights, free speech etc seem to make an awful lot of 'mistakes' that just happen to censor things that powerful countries and customers don't like. Indian terrorists spreading terror by criticising Modi's covid response being 'accidentally' banned from twitter, a prominent search engine owned by a prominent US company 'accidentally' blocking images of tank man on the anniversary of Tiananmen Square...

4 hours ago, Malcador said:

George Bush would have just dodged the slap with a sith eating grin afterwards.

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