The all things Political topic -In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie

[ComradeYellow]

 

1 hour ago, Raithe said:

 

 

Which is why China will win at this rate, the U.S. is split down the pipe on cultural issues and divided as Hell.

China is like a whole country filled with Republicans lol.

[Darkpriest]

Anyone joining this list anytine soon?

https://www.statista.com/chart/3292/the-cities-with-the-most-billionaires/

[Raithe]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/16/asia/hong-kong-activists-sentencing-intl-hnk/index.html?

Well if we're going to look at China..

A Hong Kong court has sentenced several of the city's leading pro-democracy campaigners to between 8 and 18 months in prison over their roles in unauthorized assemblies at the height of the 2019 protests.
Among those sentenced was Jimmy Lai, who founded the pro-democracy Apple Daily newspaper. Lai received 12 months in prison for his involvement in a peaceful protest on August 18.
Also headed to prison are former lawmakers "Longhair" Leung Kwok-hung, who received an 18 month sentence, Lee Cheuk-yan, 12 months, Au Nok-hin, 10 months, and Cyd Ho, 8 months.

During Friday's sentencing hearing, judge Amanda Wood**** said the defendants "deliberately defied the law" and the unauthorized protests posed "a direct challenge to the authority of the police, and therefore law and order."

She said sentence imposed should "reflect the seriousness of the offense and culpability," as well as the "conscious decision" by the defendants to break the law

[HoonDing]

"Which is why China will win at this rate, the U.S. is split down the pipe on cultural issues and divided as Hell.

China is like a whole country filled with Republicans lol."

a country not even 300 years old going up against a 5000 year old civilization

it's like an amoeba playing chess against Anatoly Karpov

 

 

[Raithe]

14 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

"Which is why China will win at this rate, the U.S. is split down the pipe on cultural issues and divided as Hell.

China is like a whole country filled with Republicans lol."

a country not even 300 years old going up against a 5000 year old civilization

it's like an amoeba playing chess against Anatoly Karpov

 

 

Is this that old joke? "Why is the US similar to a loaf of bread?  After 300 years both will develop some form of culture..."

[Gfted1]

I dunno. If a civilization is still dirt farming after 5k years then maybe they need to adjust their "culture" a bit.

Which makes me think about Africa...why is the cradle of life still one of the most backward locations on Earth? Im convinced theres got to be a Wakanda hiding in there somewhere.

[Gromnir]

4 hours ago, HoonDing said:

"Which is why China will win at this rate, the U.S. is split down the pipe on cultural issues and divided as Hell.

China is like a whole country filled with Republicans lol."

a country not even 300 years old going up against a 5000 year old civilization

it's like an amoeba playing chess against Anatoly Karpov

 

 

well then, based on your comparisons, there is nothing to fear from the chinese. the older and more basic lifeform indeed stands no chance 'gainst the hairless ape who has been on the scene for a relative brief period o' time.  

anybody here speak ancient sumerian? no? well, that is weird.

am suspecting the ancient egyptians believed the age o' their civilization gave 'em invincibility.

but perhaps hoon is correct. age o' a culture is vital, which is why westerners should start fostering their kids with aboriginal australian peoples if they wanna insulate the next generation from a possible chinese threat, 'cause the australians significant predate the chinese. 

naked appeals to tradition/antiquity is so 19th century.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Gromnir

[Malcador]

2 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

Which makes me think about Africa...why is the cradle of life still one of the most backward locations on Earth?

A question which everyone has far too simple an answer for.  I guess like everything in life.

[BruceVC]

3 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

I dunno. If a civilization is still dirt farming after 5k years then maybe they need to adjust their "culture" a bit.

Which makes me think about Africa...why is the cradle of life still one of the most backward locations on Earth? Im convinced theres got to be a Wakanda hiding in there somewhere.

 

46 minutes ago, Malcador said:

A question which everyone has far too simple an answer for.  I guess like everything in life.

Its a good question and one I can provide some answers. Many companies and investment firms have studied this reality to understand why southern  Africa is one of the only regions where people living in extreme poverty has not dropped and in some cases its has increased 

Its also  not a racist question and should be discussed and understood to assist  the economic growth of the region

The good news is I already studied several reports and confirmed actual issues in certain countries that have lead to the different degrees of economic failure, these can be fixed but it would require the actual AU and the residents to work together

I am just going to summarize key contributions, I can provide more links if required 

• their are several failed  country's  that have not been fixed so poverty continues
• their has been no attempt to find  the official regulations and laws for what constitutes  a proper run country so we see real breakdowns in some regions 
• The AU is just a talk shop so their is no economic measures that can be applied to help African countries so we are on our own 

Edited April 16, 2021 by BruceVC

[Amentep]

2 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

I dunno. If a civilization is still dirt farming after 5k years then maybe they need to adjust their "culture" a bit.

Which makes me think about Africa...why is the cradle of life still one of the most backward locations on Earth? Im convinced theres got to be a Wakanda hiding in there somewhere.

I guess it depends on your definition of backwards...there have been a number of advanced for their time civilizations in Africa.

Egypt/Kemet in North Africa which had grown from the Tasian, Badari, Amaranti, Gerza lands, plus trade partner/occasional subject/occasional ruler Nubia/Kush are examples of advanced civilizations in Africa. North Africa was also home of Carthage that managed to hold off the Roman empire for awhile and was a pretty remarkable country.

While the land of Punt is still speculative, I believe the general current consensus puts it in east Africa (Ethiopia/Eritrea area).  That same area held Aksum, a major country in trade. 

The Mali and Songhai empires were centered in west Africa.  When the Mali empire was at its height, only the Mongol empire held more territory, from what I understand (although the Mongol Empire was still 9 times larger, so there was a big gap between #1 and #2). The Ghana empire predated and was eventually absorbed into the Mali empire.

Great Zimbabwe - in the area of Botswana, modern Zimbabwe and Mozambique - was another wealthy trade empire, with an impressive (now ruined) stone capitol city.  You also get the Kongo Kingdom which was born of two earlier kingdoms, the Mbata kingdom and Mpemba Kasi.

So in general, while there were strong and advanced civilizations, they were laid waste by the things that lay waste to all countries: time, changes in circumstance (invasion, internal strife, loss of trade goods, environmental changes).   Egypt, Nubia/Kush and Carthage were conquered by Rome (I believe, Nubia briefly conquered Egypt, and then Egypt and the Assyrians regained it, but the end seems to lie in Rome).  The fate of Punt, like its location, is speculative, but by the later Kingdoms of Egypt was treated as an almost mythological land of plenty, so its decline so early in what we have records of probably leads to its mysterious fate.

Aksum & Zimbabwe seem to have suffered drops in trade that ultimately led to their collapse. Aksum splintered into other countries/kingdoms and part was taken control of by other countries.

As mentioned the Ghana empire collapsed, speculatively due to collapsing from Islamic invaders.  Mali was greatly decreased by the rise of the Songhai empire.  The Songhai empire had a succession crisis involving the king and his sons that weakened the nation.  Morocco (founded from areas conquered from the Byzantine Empire by the Umayyad Caliphate) was able to conquered both empires.

The Kongo Kingdom was slowly converted after a Portuguese explorer found the kingdom and started spreading Christianity; it was subsequently destroyed in a series of wars with Portugal and the Dutch.

Modern Africa primarily doesn't really take shape until the colonial lands begin to gain independence (the last one in 1977!), and some areas have faired better post-colonialism than others, and their success or lack of happens for a variety of reasons.  So there's not a single answer really as there is not a single reason or source for the development of the continent, but a tapestry of reasons woven through time and through various lands and peoples with differing desires and goals.  

[rjshae]

6 hours ago, HoonDing said:

"Which is why China will win at this rate, the U.S. is split down the pipe on cultural issues and divided as Hell.

China is like a whole country filled with Republicans lol."

a country not even 300 years old going up against a 5000 year old civilization

it's like an amoeba playing chess against Anatoly Karpov

It's almost like the cultural revolution never happened.

[Gorth]

The richest man that ever lived was the emperor of Mali 

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p09dcbl0/the-richest-person-who-ever-lived

edit: not unsurprisingly old African empires were mostly situated around the coasts of inner seas (Mediterranean and the Red Sea) and the major rivers 

[Zoraptor]

Yeah, all the great early civilisations were around rivers with relatively large flat plains or relatively enclosed seas, which are in short supply in Africa except the North. Most African civs had to travel very long distances for trade and the like, and had limited exchange of ideas as opposed to the Med which spoke Latin and its derivatives and Greek for centuries++. Even somewhere successful like Mali was still very isolated comparatively and reliant on an arduous trip through the desert or the Portugese for most trade. There's also significant periodic environmental problems like drought, and rampant disease. While something like malaria was a problem in a lot of places when a disorder as bad as sickle cell anaemia is selected for rather than against due to it conveying resistance to malaria you know that malaria was (and still is) a massive problem. If you had an African Solon/ Aristotle/ Archimedes- which there almost certainly were, Great Zimbabwe has some pretty amazing engineering for example- the chances were high that they'd die of disease, their civ would die due to environmental issues and no one would be able to understand their language after a few years.

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

The richest man that ever lived was the emperor of Mali 

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p09dcbl0/the-richest-person-who-ever-lived

edit: not unsurprisingly old African empires were mostly situated around the coasts of inner seas (Mediterranean and the Red Sea) and the major rivers 

am not liking the designation o' africa as backwards. not your observation. 

in the US, we take advantage o' being a capital producer, selling those "backwards" nations tractors and fertilizers and other stuff the "third world" nations cannot current make for themselves. unfortunately, w/o serious help, even the oil producers in the middle east never reach a point where they may transition from commodity to capital. mali might be a terrible example for 2021 'cause most o' africa is indeed stuck with commodity-based economies similar to those o' the 1300s and there is no seeming way to bootstrap themselves into capital production. china hasn't even been complete successful at such a transition and they invested decades in their transformative efforts, used brutal authoritarian means to do so and is now faced with a serious population crisis with no obvious or ez solutions. is worth remembering, per capita gdp o' china is less than 1/6 that o' the US. 

but am thinking all too often the most obvious explanations is overlooked.

for a considerable time, egypt fed the roman empire. by late in augustus' rule, egypt was supplying 1/3 o' the grain feeding the roman empire. the nile river delta were different and near unique back in those days. were a fertile river which flooded regularly. am thinking most people do not realize how recent is innovations to farming which makes it possible to achieve anything other than bare subsistence in most places on the planet.  nile were unique in africa.

other than harnessing electricity as a power source, am thinking the evolution o' the plow, and subsequent mechanization o' agriculture, is arguable the most transformative advances in human science and engineering. 5000 years ago is likely when plow appears in mesopotamia. 3000 years ago in egypt and china. perhaps somewhere 'round 1000 bc, metal were added to the plow to make it more durable if not more effective... not a metal plow per se, but kinda a metal cap on the pointy stick which were the plow for a long time. in places with regular flooding and silting, a pointy stick plow were sufficient, which is why the great river deltas such as yalu and yellow in china, tigris and euphrates in modern iraq and the nile in egypt is where the largest populations o' people were located. farm elsewhere were exponential more difficult and plows were not up to the task.  it weren't until the 1600s that the dutch invented a metal shaped different than the pointy stick plows used for millennia. until technology advanced, there were extreme few places on the planet which could support a genuine empire sized population.

am gonna note the incan empire is an exception to aforementioned generalizations as their agricultural innovations is genuine kinda mind-blowing by standards o' even today and they did w/o stuff like horse collars and metal plow coulters. not even the wheel. genuine fascinating stuff if you are fascinated by that kinda thing.  

cradle o' life bit is from when humans were hunters and gatherers and everything changed for humanity 'round 3000 bc. not many hunter gatherers remain, eh? the thing is, "everything changed" has happened numerous times in the past handful o' centuries, and if you ain't at the forefront when change happens, you get left further behind. 

HA! Good Fun!

[ComradeYellow]

9 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

I dunno. If a civilization is still dirt farming after 5k years then maybe they need to adjust their "culture" a bit.

Mao Zedong tried that with the "Cultural Revolution", which failed utterly and is now regarded in China as one of the "Four steps backwards" along with the Great Leap Forward during the Mao years.

I guess one man trying to craft a society into his personal desires is a no-go. 

Modern China is now just an authoritarian hypernationalist America loathing stock exchange, sort of like the Republican Party here in the U.S.

[Gromnir]

ps

am moderate embarrassed we didn't mention the aztecs. pretty sure we linked on these boards in 2014 or 2015, explaining our shame for not mentioning this time. 

is short and includes peter weller, so perhaps deal with a commercial if need be.

https://www.history.com/videos/aztec-ingenuity#aztec-ingenuity

stuck with terrible soil for farming? well, ok then. make land for farming.

'course you need a really big and shallow lake to pull this off-- is nevertheless awe inspiring impressive but also unique. producing enough food to support a thriving population has been the largest obstacle to human advancement since... forever.  rare and recent has such obstacles been overcome with any regularity beyond the handful o' famous rivers mentioned previous.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited April 17, 2021 by Gromnir

[Gromnir]

Colorado police accused of injuring elderly woman with dementia during arrest

even if you are an old lady, if you do not immediate comply, you are presumptive guilty o' contempt of cop and may suffer consequences real and dire.

most cops has been trained by other cops, who were trained by other cops and so on and so forth. is codified nowhere, so ain't the stuff o' training manuals or doctrine, but failure of the attitude test is a near guarantee o' a more hands on approach by the cops, if there is any real or imagined justification for cops to do so. 

need change cop training, culture and education, but am suspecting smarter people than Gromnir has been making more constructive criticisms for more than just a couple decades with few actual changes save in anecdotal relevant small batches. more than once we has pasted links to those wiki sites showing how many independent law enforcement agencies exist in each state, and the fed literal cannot make changes to those law enforcement entities save in minor ways. positive changes, if they is gonna happen, need to happen state and local.... particular local. 

kinda a side observation, but many cops begin their genuine training with the public by working for X months at a jail. am not certain why this is done. if we had to guess, there is a few benefits o' jail training. after all, jails are necessarily controlled environments which is far better for training than is more chaotic real world situations, and dealing daily with pre-disposition persons, many o' whom is gonna view cops as adversaries, helps weed out those police/sheriff recruits who is not willing or able to handle the challenges presented by unruly americans who in rl is gonna have access to lethal weapons.  we got no evidence whatsoever to support any conclusions, but am wondering if early jail training for cops and sheriffs has a serious lasting impact on how law enforcement deal with the public.

complete unrelated:

 

worth a watch, but keep in mind franken glosses over democrat hypocrisy during the mccain v obama presidential run when mccain voluntarily adhered to mccain-feingold limits and disclosure requirements, which the Court had already invalidated, thinking moderate democrats would applaud mccain's. foolish. mccain were overwhelmed by democrat spending.

nobody in washington has a monopoly on hypocrisy.

HA! Good Fun!

  

Edited April 18, 2021 by Gromnir

[Darkpriest]

Something, that might be of interest to US residents. 

A bit too much gloom and immediate doom, but this piece touches a few right strings in this tune. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/stunning-divergence-latest-bank-data-reveals-something-terminally-broken-financial-system

[Raithe]

[Gromnir]

52 minutes ago, Raithe said:

image

firearms result in the deaths o' tens o' thousands o' americans per year. 

the thing is, the mass shootings and death-by-cop incidents get all the media attention. the number of unarmed individuals of color who are killed by cops per year, on average, is in the 20s. number o' death by cop incidents total per year has remained disturbing constant since at least 2015. mass shootings average ~350ish per year, with the use o' long guns accounting for only a small fraction o' those hundreds. etc.

we got a firearms problem in this country. we also have a police violence problem. unfortunate, from our pov, we do a terrible job o' educating selves 'bout the problems beyond the lurid details and the headline grabbing details. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps 'bout 60% of total firearms deaths in the us per year is suicides. am knowing many do not believe such a number is relevant, 'cause is a matter of choice, but suicide is most easily thwarted by making access to the means o' suicide a smidge more difficult. coal gas ovens. honest do a quick search for coal gas ovens and suicide rates in the US and UK. suicide, as difficult as it is to accept, is an impulsive act.  reduce access to means o' killing self even a little and you save many people from suicide, from a choice they would not make if they took even a little bit more time to reflect.

edit: adding an npr link which is tending towards brevity over depth. a quick read for anybody interested in our suicide observations. 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Gromnir

[ComradeYellow]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/14/us/biden-afghanistan-troops.html

Called it.  I predicted the U.S.-Afghan war would end in 2021 a few years back.

The Soviet-Afghan war lasted 10 years so I gave the U.S. 20 years.

Now back to Cold War era theatrics that old farts love so much!

[Zoraptor]

Is that the NYT article that somehow managed to make it sound like the withdrawal was entirely Biden's idea and didn't mention that it was actually a deadline extension from the one Trump announced?

(Actually no, that was an opinion piece that went to ludicrous lengths to pretend that Trump never existed and not only didn't mention his deadline but never mentioned him at all. Although seemingly the above article also does not mention that it's a deadline extension from one Trump announced, albeit I only skimmed it)

[Gromnir]

quick clarification, 'cause am knowing we weren't clear:

our observations about the number of unarmed people of color killed by cops is not a suggestion such deaths is inconsequential. after all, IF law enforcement agencies made just enough changes to reduce the deaths from twenties to single digits, no doubt many would applaud such effort, but am gonna suggest such would be misleading. the problem is the casual brutality o' law enforcement in the US.

we noted when the george floyd incident first happened, many police would see chauvin's actions as inappropriate, but the only thing they would see as wrong were the duration o' the force used.

so go ahead and listen to the testimony by cops at the chauvin trial. have chauvin's superior testify were indeed novel and almost unheard o' in a cop trial, but the cop testimony at trial reinforced the idea that chauvin were a bad actor who abused otherwise ok cop practices and took 'em too far. there were no condemnation o' law enforcement willingness to use casual brutality to gain control in a situation. the problem were the nine minutes. if chauvin is found guilty it will be because o' the nine minutes, and every other cop will have only learned that after three minutes they might need be a bit more careful when twisting up a person in custody.

is many millions o' arrests every year in the US. there is 500k arrests in the US every year for violent crimes. there is gonna be deaths particularly as, at the very least, the cops in such situation is gonna be armed with lethal weapons. focus on the deaths, which already does not occur in great numbers, is a mistake. focus on the deaths is human and understandable for anybody with a shred o' empathy. am nevertheless worried the deaths take focus from the bigger and more fundamental problem.

HA! Good Fun!

[Darkpriest]

A looooong read of various aspects from the side, which seems to question the more media driven Chauvin's level of guilt. 

https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/04/chauvin-trial-verdict-prediction-of-sorts-on-legal-merits-alone-not-guilty-but-political-dynamics-drive-injustice/

Is there some similar summary, which would point to all charges being valid? 

Perhaps @Gromnir has some?

 

[Malcador]

This closing argument is a great sedative.