Politics... US election edition

[Skarpen]

1 hour ago, Amentep said:

I'm not ignoring it, I'm saying that "if someone wants to" then they will find away, even if they have to create that way (hence the reference to the various codes and industries that popped up to circumvent those codes).  In this case, the willing audience flipping to CNN or Fox news or anyone who carried the broadcast would allow them access to the speech.

Similarly, the unwilling audience could have flipped the channel to anything else had those broadcast networks not turned off the speech.  But your argument seems to be is that private corporations who broadcast these channels don't have the right to choose to be a willing/unwilling audience, to which I would disagree.

 

And in this case it's good that at least some news networks did broadcast. But what if all news networks decided that they will not broadcast anything from republican government or republican party at all? And then the audience would have no means to hear the message, because they wouldn't know there is a message to be heard. And I find censorship like this extremely dangerous. I also don't consider media outlets to be audiences. They are platforms on which the messenger and their audience can meet. Just like newspapers, radio internet and such. I do understand that this is not a simple issue, but a complicated one and details would need to be clarified, but I don't think a high level of censorship is in anyones best interest.

  

3 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

You are really committed to this bit. 

Well the hyperbole was invented for a purpose, and that purpose was to magnify the point. 

Edited November 6, 2020 by Skarpen

[InsaneCommander]

4 hours ago, Malcador said:

He's going to throw one hell of a tantrum between now and January if he loses.

 

[Hurlshort]

14 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

But what if all news networks decided that they will not broadcast anything from republican government or republican party at all?

And what if unicorns are real?

[Gromnir]

17 minutes ago, Achilles said:

If Laura Cox said it, it must be true

is worrisome the software glitch exists, but there is a reason one county in mi were showing results o' zero for the last 1.5 days. the thing is, the glitch alone doesn't result in borked numbers. were also human error. 

from a detroit free press article early this am... and the reason nobody is making a big deal o' the error beyond fox...

J. Alex Halderman, a professor of computer science and engineering at the University of Michigan and an expert on voting machines and security, said he is interested in getting more information about what happened.

"It's plausibly human error, but if a simple screw-up could cause these problems, that sounds like a technical design flaw," Halderman said.

"It's natural to wonder whether similar problems could have occurred in other jurisdictions that use the same machine. Fortunately, even if the county hadn't noticed, this would have been caught and corrected during Michigan's normal canvassing procedures, when they compare the results to the paper tapes from the machines."

this woulda' already been noticed if other counties had a similar double-snafu, but is worth double-checking just to make absolute certain. regardless, is not the major issue being suggested by the trump campaign. surprise?

HA! Good Fun!

[algroth]

[Hurlshort]

I really just have a hard time with the whole Republican victim complex narrative that Skarpie is pushing. You've got control of the senate, you've gained house seats, and you won the election in 2016. The Republican party isn't some marginalized 3rd party. They get plenty of coverage.

Are journalists typically going to lean towards liberalism? Absolutely! What kind of conservative goes to college to get a degree in journalism?

Edited November 6, 2020 by Hurlshot

[algroth]

On the subject of those alleged "red flags", is it so crazy to think that one of the most polarizing presidents in recent memory in the midst of a national crisis would prompt a far greater turnout than usual? And is it so hard to believe that a candidate that has done his utmost to undermine and discourage mail-in and early voting see mail-in and early votes squarely favouring the opposition?

This whole thin argument for fraud is by design. Trump was actively creating the condition for these discrepancies so he could call fraud where there was none. The barest application of common sense can see through his bull****.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Are journalists typically going to lean towards liberalism? Absolutely! What kind of conservative goes to college to get a degree in journalism?

Same reason why "ThE sKooLz R fULL of liBtaRdz!!1!"; people who skew conservative want to get make money, not teach others.

[Elerond]

45 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

I'm calling it, you will not know who is the new POTUS until mid Jan 2021

 

Same system is used in  Texas, the entire states of Hawaii and Oklahoma, half of Washington and Colorado, and certain counties in Ohio, California, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Oregon, Pennsylvania, and Virginia

System is done by Texan company Hart InterCivic, this is not first time their system is accused of switching votes, but for some reason they get more states as their customer in each election

[Skarpen]

13 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

I really just have a hard time with the whole Republican victim complex narrative that Skarpie is pushing. You've got control of the senate, you've gained house seats, and you won the election in 2016. The Republican party isn't some marginalized 3rd party. They get plenty of coverage.

I'm not american so I observe from the outside and I'm talking in much broader sense then "Republican victim complex". I live in a country that had censorship and here media pushed the one and only approved politically corrected view. And I give warnings when I see a country that is going full ahead in that direction. 

12 minutes ago, algroth said:

This whole thin argument for fraud is by design. Trump was actively creating the condition for these discrepancies so he could call fraud where there was none. The barest application of common sense can see through his bull****.

Look who's spinning conspiracy theories now.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Is the ignore feature on these forums curtailing free speech?

[MedicineDan]

Heh, the old thread is locked.  Probably a decent amount of traffic in political threads.  I've no doubt Biden won and I would assume he won fairly until any real evidence of widespread wrongdoing is found.  It's not that I doubt the possibility for corruption, malfeasance, and fraud.  It's just that those are irrelevant unless they can both be proved and also result in overturning the election.  Court cases might impact things I suppose, but recounts don't overturn tens of thousands of votes.  That said, I think the mail-in ballot debacle should be rectified.  If it results in Biden getting the edge this time, we'll have to live with it, but every state should tighten things next time around.  Nevertheless, I don't want to waste time on corruption.

I'll give you advice.  I know, no one wants to hear it.  Fair enough.  Ignore me.  Hate me.  Laugh at me.  Good chance I won't read it this time around now that things are behind us, so why bother?  Anyhow, here goes:  It will be an increasingly losing proposition to continue using the "Republicans are racists" tag line.  Seriously, it's going to hurt your cause over time.  This election is a sign that using that particular stick is starting to hurt leftist causes.  Throwing everything at Trump, including the kitchen sink, barely squeezed out a win *this* time around.  I don't want to take away from people's joy at Biden getting elected.  I'm a Republican who believes in the right of people to vote their conscience, even if I think they're wrong.  Even if it's to my disadvantage.  Even when it's clearly to their own detriment.  I would just say, as I did a couple of days ago, the Democrat establishment are not happy with the way this election turned.  If anything, they are less happy now.  I guess, if I wanted to harsh your buzz, I would simply remind you we could see Trump return in 2024.  No, to *really* harsh your buzz, I would suggest he might win.  Yep.  I know.  It's laughable.  Remember you are mortal.

[Elerond]

52 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

But what if all news networks decided that they will not broadcast anything from republican government or republican party at all?

So as government only has power to collect trillions of dollars taxes and use where ever they want and they have control over military and they also have their own broadcasting and radio networks and postal office in their command they need private companies forced to broadcast their message as otherwise people may not hear it. Seem fair 

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by Elerond

[algroth]

There's also this assumption going on by people calling for media bias to the left that there aren't also several outlets and large mainstream media channels that skew squarely conservative and Republican, chief of them Fox News. This fearmongering about the one-sidedness of the press and the erosion of freedom of speech is completely baseless.

[Skarpen]

10 minutes ago, Elerond said:

So as government only has power to collect trillions of dollars taxes and use where ever they want and they have control over military and they also have their own broadcasting and radio networks and postal office in their command they need private companies forced to broadcast their message as otherwise people may not hear it. Seem fair 

 

I don't think that there is governmental media in USA.

[Elerond]

2 minutes ago, algroth said:

There's also this assumption going on by people calling for media bias to the left that there aren't also several outlets and large mainstream media channels that skew squarely conservative and Republican, chief of them Fox News. This fearmongering about the one-sidedness of the press and the erosion of freedom of speech is completely baseless.

And Sinclair Broadcast Group owns big sunk of local broadcasters and gives them scripts which they need to read in their news broadcasting and they are even more conservative than Fox. Democrats not getting coverage on local broadcasting has higher probability than Republicans not getting coverage on national broadcasters programs 

[Elerond]

8 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

I don't think that there is governmental media in USA.

C-SPAN and NPR

edit: and PBS:Public Broadcasting Service

Edited November 6, 2020 by Elerond

[Amentep]

3 minutes ago, Elerond said:

C-SPAN and NPR

I don't think either are owned by the government. They're both afaik public/private non-profits.

The US runs VOICE OF AMERICA,  which can technically be heard in the US,  but that's not the intended target.

[rjshae]

In twenty years, will we all look back at this and laugh? I hope so.

[Skarpen]

8 minutes ago, Elerond said:

C-SPAN and NPR

edit: and PBS:Public Broadcasting Service

I don't think you understand what C-SPAN nad NPR are. You might want to read up about them.

[Elerond]

3 minutes ago, Amentep said:

I don't think either are owned by the government. They're both afaik public/private non-profits.

The US runs VOICE OF AMERICA,  which can technically be heard in the US,  but that's not the intended target.

It is technically independent from government control like for example our (Finnish) national broadcasting company, but as C-SPAN's headquarters locate in Capitol Hill, Washington, D.C. and their focus is to broadcast government's sessions and other events, like Trump's press conferences, I am not sure if it's indecency prevents government using it as their broadcasting platform 

[Elerond]

11 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

I don't think you understand what C-SPAN nad NPR are. You might want to read up about them.

C-SPAN is broadcasting organisation dedicated to broadcast all US government events and messages and it is mainly funded by those broadcasting companies that you want to be forced to broadcast US government's message.

NPR is meant to be free public radio, which is why it gets part of its funding from local and federal governments. Because of its role to broadcast governments messages and government sanctioned educational programs.

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, algroth said:

There's also this assumption going on by people calling for media bias to the left that there aren't also several outlets and large mainstream media channels that skew squarely conservative and Republican, chief of them Fox News. This fearmongering about the one-sidedness of the press and the erosion of freedom of speech is completely baseless.

The entire thing is a bad faith argument from people trying to ensure they can speak without being challenged and have listening to them be mandatory. They don't care about free speech, integrity of the press, far and balanced coverage, or whatever else, they just want to force their views down your throat without being talked back to. Engaging with it like that instead of trying to apply logic to the spurious claims like censorship of the president of the us will save you a lot of time and headache.

Oh and in terms of popular vote Biden now has 4 million more votes than Trump with close to a 3% lead.

Edited November 7, 2020 by KaineParker

[ComradeYellow]

There is no "left" media in the Western world.  Just corporate white supremacist media vs. corporate destroy whitey media.

I'd prefer some good left wing media that's above and beyond identity politics. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Elerond said:

C-SPAN is broadcasting organisation dedicated to broadcast all US government events and messages and it is mainly funded by those broadcasting companies that you want to be forced to broadcast US government's message.

NPR is meant to be free public radio, which is why it gets part of its funding from local and federal governments. Because of its role to broadcast governments messages and government sanctioned educational programs.

I can't speak to C-SPANs funding, but NPR gets a very small percentage of it's funding from the government.

https://www.npr.org/about-npr/178660742/public-radio-finances

2 hours ago, ComradeMaster said:

There is no "left" media in the Western world.  Just corporate white supremacist media vs. corporate destroy whitey media.

I'd prefer some good left wing media that's above and beyond identity politics. 

I think we're mostly on the same page here. The problem with our media isn't that it's liberal; it's that it's corporate. Which unfortunately takes our fourth estate and pretty much locks it into a race to the bottom.

Fox News exists to keep the right wing constantly triggered. MSNBC exists to keep the left wing constantly triggered. Meanwhile, actual journalism becomes harder to find while the public continues to mistake "being entertained" with "being informed"