Politics 20/20

[Amentep]

Old thread -

Last few posts:

51 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/BigStory12/idUSKBN26M5O2

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/senate-orders-big-tech-ceos-testify-liability-shield-election-day

 

45 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

Bingo!  2016 Trump was far more viable and understandable than 2020 Trump.  The former get a pass, the latter do not.  The usual GOP rank and file are expected to vote Trump, agnostic swing voters have no excuse this time around.  Really says something about those who do, and none of it is good.

 

43 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

If anyone is truly concerned by Fascism and Nazism rising it's ugly head again, look no further then all time classic Germany. 

Just yesterday Katarina Barley VP of EU had a flashback of her grandfather child stories and she wants to starve Poland and Hungary. 

https://newsbeezer.com/hungaryeng/ep-vice-president-member-states-like-hungary-and-poland-must-be-starved-financially/

EU is on the way to become Fourth Reich.

 

14 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

le sigh

again, the white supremacy question were not meant to appease pundits or change hearts and minds. undecideds and the demographics which trump was strong in 2016, but has lost ground considerable particular o' late (women and the elderly) were given a chance to see trump reject white supremacists on national tv. were ez.  identify how the far left or pundits weren't gonna be budged utter misses the point. multiple posters are strawmanning this one to death.

and identify why 2016 voters got suckered in by trump is preaching to the choir but more important ignores how Americans demand more from Presidents as 'posed to less. this is not europe. we don't have a prime minister and a parliament. we got an extreme centrist tradition and a system which promotes moderation 'cause our government can't LEGAL function w/o cooperation from both sides o' the aisle. the reason why trump keeps resorting to unconstitutional is 'cause the system is designed to prevent exact what is happening. 

working class had not improved under pre-covid trump anymore than were happening in the second half o' obama's term, and his handling o' the pandemic made situation far worse for folks w/o a college degree. even before the pandemic, the rate o' farmer bankruptcies were at highs not seen in many decades and suicides by farmers were also nearing post ww2 highs. is not just that what were bad under obama were continuing to be bad. the trade war with china were killing american farmers and trump policies were making situation worse save for the largest corporate farms.

Americans has always expected more from Presidents and the ideology nonsense has never been convincing on this side of the pond. nevertheless, trump has sold the his base on the existential threat o' democrats and blm and muslims and immigrants. of course folks more familiar with european politics ain't shocked, but the US has been different for a long time... intentional so.  our extreme right and extreme left has, until recent, looked positive centrist by euro standards. our system makes centrist the norm. 

nevertheless, an unpopular populist ushers in new kinda American politics? we got an unpopular President who is able to get away with almost daily violations o' the Constitution, and is not possible to stop him unless our senate, which is current answerable to a distinct minority o' the population, chooses to say, "no." the senate, btw, is designed to be more remote from the will o' the people with their six-year terms... which is ordinary the case... at least it was until citizens united.  centrist. moderation. 

until trump?

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pidesco]

https://twitter.com/brianschatz/status/1311711755534577669

[ComradeYellow]

33 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

https://twitter.com/brianschatz/status/1311711755534577669

Love the comments here.  The 'Radical Center' really can't get over their Russiagating Putin Puppet **** can they?  I'd say if anything will cost them the election, it's 1950's grade Cold War rhetoric by the same party that's historically against such nonsense.

[majestic]

3 hours ago, Skarpen said:

If anyone is truly concerned by Fascism and Nazism rising it's ugly head again, look no further then all time classic Germany. 

Just yesterday Katarina Barley VP of EU had a flashback of her grandfather child stories and she wants to starve Poland and Hungary. 

https://newsbeezer.com/hungaryeng/ep-vice-president-member-states-like-hungary-and-poland-must-be-starved-financially/

EU is on the way to become Fourth Reich.

 

Heh. Mr. Law and Order gets all "Fourth Reich incoming" when the one of the vice presidents of the European Parliament is talking about potentially cutting the subsidies of member nations that do not abide by the rules and regulations set forth and required by membership in the European Union.

So what's our take on Trump trying to slash federal funding for cities or states governed by the Democrats? All fine, yeah? Or fascist?

edit: This is not an endorsement of the terminology used ("aushungern") nor an endorsement of any sanctions against member nations. That's an entirely different topic, and a really tricky one. Personally I'd rather not slash subsidies because that just hurts the general population, misses the mark and allows for politicians to use such sanctions to double down on an already entrenched us vs. them divide. Proof in the quote, and all that.

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Law and Order for my enemies, FREEDOMtm for me.

[Darkpriest]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

 

Heh. Mr. Law and Order gets all "Fourth Reich incoming" when the one of the vice presidents of the European Parliament is talking about potentially cutting the subsidies of member nations that do not abide by the rules and regulations set forth and required by membership in the European Union.

So what's our take on Trump trying to slash federal funding for cities or states governed by the Democrats? All fine, yeah? Or fascist?

edit: This is not an endorsement of the terminology used ("aushungern") nor an endorsement of any sanctions against member nations. That's an entirely different topic, and a really tricky one. Personally I'd rather not slash subsidies because that just hurts the general population, misses the mark and allows for politicians to use such sanctions to double down on an already entrenched us vs. them divide. Proof in the quote, and all that.

 

Too drunk now to answer properly, but there is a difference in an economic and political union of 1000s of years old countries/nations and US, a constitual federation and an upstart empire, already showing signs of decline on par with late Roman empire, after barely 75yrs of world dominance. 

[ComradeYellow]

14 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

Too drunk now to answer properly, but there is a difference in an economic and political union of 1000s of years old countries/nations and US, a constitual federation and an upstart empire, already showing signs of decline on par with late Roman empire, after barely 75yrs of world dominance. 

Heh, sounds like the USSR!

It appears modern empires are much harder to hold together because information flows rapidly and it doesn't take much to spot the internal contradictions of global powers.

[Gorth]

The tl;dr version of current Australian economic policy...

 

 

[MedicineDan]

I've always wanted to visit the Land Down Undah.  'Course, right now would be a bad time.  I'd be treated to a hotel... kind of like Hotel California.  Check out any time you like, but you can never leave.  Wait, that's the damned Kiwis, isn't it?  <.<

Anyhow, I'm starting to be more convinced I was right and Trump came out better after the debate.  I get the point about softening his image, but that's too late.  I moreso get the point about him letting Biden stumble all over himself.  I think the left and right are wrong on this one.  Conventional wisdom is that Trump really blew it by being rude, but I don't think so.  I'm not saying I like the fact that he was rude.  I just don't think it hurt him.  As usual, I'm more looking at how it went down than pushing an agenda.  That is to say, when I want to exhort people to put aside the ridiculous nonsense and vote a certain way, I'm up front about it.  Most of the time, I'm merely making observations.  Scoff at me. Fair enough.  The proof isn't in holding forth here.  The proof is in the result.  Now, I've said Biden is probably winning this thing, but that's because I believe in putting my money where my mouth is.  The reality is, I can't sort this election at all.  I was pretty much spot on about the spread of the popular vote in the 2016 election.  I also figured the house would fall in 2018 (yeah, genius!), but I also thought the republicans would hold on to Florida's governor's manion despite the polls. Republicans are generally outperforming the polls in Florida for the past few cycles, at least statewide, so maybe there's something amiss with the methodology or something.  I think Trump probably wins Fla.  If he doesn't, no need to worry about a long election night.  I also have my doubts about Ohio being a tossup, but I think overall Trump's in trouble. The polls could be wrong.  However, this isn't like the lying media (yeah, I know, hur hur hur FOX NEWS!  I undoubtedly get news from more sources, and a wider variety, than most folks here).  Anyhow, the media can get it wrong and even need to fire or call for resignations for bad stories.  :waves to CNN:  Pollsters and polling organizations have to protect their cred. Even if you want to shade the election by shading the polls, it doesn't work as well as it did and you can't move the needle if you're entirely discredited.  Whatevah.  We'll see.

[Skarpen]

5 hours ago, majestic said:

Heh. Mr. Law and Order gets all "Fourth Reich incoming" when the one of the vice presidents of the European Parliament is talking about potentially cutting the subsidies of member nations that do not abide by the rules and regulations set forth and required by membership in the European Union.

Please refer to a specific rule or regulation set forth and required that Poland or Hungary agreed to by joining EU that they not abide by. I will wait. Hungary was criticized by ABIDING to the rules set forth by EU regarding illegal immigrants that Angela Merkel by herself changed on the fly. Poland is criticized by not following EU guideline (not laws!) in matters of internal politics that EU treaty specifically states are internal matters of membership countries and EU have no jurisdiction over.

So yeah. Mr Law And Order gets upset when EU breaks their own rules to hurt countries that don't obey ideology and are using such morbid terminology to do so.

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by Skarpen

[MedicineDan]

Yep, crazy just went insane.  The Covid has shaped our world.  I would chastise the disgusting people who will crow about the President testing positive, but I'm the disgusting person who's first thought is how it will impact the election.  What a bunch of bastards we are.

[Gorth]

Let's see if both parties even have live candidates when we get to November...

 

US President Donald Trump has said he and First Lady Melania Trump have tested positive for coronavirus and are now in quarantine.

The president, aged 74 and therefore in a high-risk group, announced the news in a tweet. "We will get through this together," he wrote.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54381848

 

[Gorth]

Double post, rather than editing the previous one, I guess if there is a god, maybe he/she does have a sense of humour

 

Hypothetical situation, if the covid kills Trump in say 3 weeks time, where would that leave the Republican party? Iirc, they didn't have anything like the process of voting for a candidate, appointing runners ups etc. Do they just take whoever he had designated his running mate as the new presidential candidate or what? Curious how that would work, because there would be very little time left.

 

[MedicineDan]

Well, the only currently alive candidate just came down with Covid.  I had this long explanation typed up, Garth, but it was too much.  I have an appt in the morning, so I'm going to sit on this.  IIRC, I think the party gets to put in the candidate if the candidate dies or drops, but I'm not sure and need to get sleep.  God bless.  Interesting Times.

[Gromnir]

6 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Double post, rather than editing the previous one, I guess if there is a god, maybe he/she does have a sense of humour

 

Hypothetical situation, if the covid kills Trump in say 3 weeks time, where would that leave the Republican party? Iirc, they didn't have anything like the process of voting for a candidate, appointing runners ups etc. Do they just take whoever he had designated his running mate as the new presidential candidate or what? Curious how that would work, because there would be very little time left.

 

wrong question, but understandable. the rnc could choose somebody. period. is something like 100 people on the republican party committee and getting an agreement might be tough, but practical is different from possible. committee doesn't need to use the primary system to replace trump on the ticket. could pick a name out of a hat. literal. no joke. 

bigger problem is ballots, which has already been printed, sent out, and in some cases returned. most states have voting laws which include time deadlines for printing o' ballots. is also deadlines for when a party may submit a name to individual states so as to appear on a ballot. that date has universal past. in theory, is too late for the republicans to offer a backup candidate in a few states. am suspecting a few states has provisions for backup candidates to have already been identified, but am pretty confidant such ain't true everywhere. very complicated.

one thing to keep in mind, an issue often overlooked, is that there is no Constitutional right for Americans to vote for President. am knowing we has mentioned previous, but is doubtful it genuine sank in... and our observation is also why we are concerned 'bout trump and barr hijinks post november 3. based on the Constitution, the President is not elected democratic. Constitution says President is chosen by the electoral college and that states decide how electoral college delegates is chosen. most states make clear that electoral delegates is appointed based on votes by citizens, but is a state-by-state thing. furthermore, and here is the kicker, if a state can't agree 'pon their delegates, there is a process whereby the fed takes over and Congress decides who becomes President.

let's all hope the President recovers. our personal first thought were that acute respiratory distress is a horrible condition to suffer.  drown on dry land. second thought were all the people exposed to covid-19 unnecessarily 'cause the President went on with his itinerary for a full day, exposing any number o' people after we knew hope hicks had tested positive... and we only knew 'bout hope hicks 'cause o' the fake news media. is a whole 'lotta folks unnecessarily exposed and who should be entering quarantine... yesterday.

 

[Pidesco]

 

[Pidesco]

24 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

wrong question, but understandable. the rnc could choose somebody. period. is something like 100 people on the republican party committee and getting an agreement might be tough, but practical is different from possible. committee doesn't need to use the primary system to replace trump on the ticket. could pick a name out of a hat. literal. no joke. 

bigger problem is ballots, which has already been printed, sent out, and in some cases returned. most states have voting laws which include time deadlines for printing o' ballots. is also deadlines for when a party may submit a name to individual states so as to appear on a ballot. that date has universal past. in theory, is too late for the republicans to offer a backup candidate in a few states. am suspecting a few states has provisions for backup candidates to have already been identified, but am pretty confidant such ain't true everywhere. very complicated.

one thing to keep in mind, an issue often overlooked, is that there is no Constitutional right for Americans to vote for President. am knowing we has mentioned previous, but is doubtful it genuine sank in... and our observation is also why we are concerned 'bout trump and barr hijinks post november 3. based on the Constitution, the President is not elected democratic. Constitution says President is chosen by the electoral college and that states decide how electoral college delegates is chosen. most states make clear that electoral delegates is appointed based on votes by citizens, but is a state-by-state thing. furthermore, and here is the kicker, if a state can't agree 'pon their delegates, there is a process whereby the fed takes over and Congress decides who becomes President.

let's all hope the President recovers. our personal first thought were that acute respiratory distress is a horrible condition to suffer.  drown on dry land. second thought were all the people exposed to covid-19 unnecessarily 'cause the President went on with his itinerary for a full day, exposing any number o' people after we knew hope hicks had tested positive... and we only knew 'bout hope hicks 'cause o' the fake news media. is a whole 'lotta folks unnecessarily exposed and who should be entering quarantine... yesterday.

 

 

There's a bunch of people who are on a tight schedule that should be quarantined now, I guess. This would include Coney Barrett, some senators(?), and the majority of White House and/or campaign staff? Trump himself is going to be missing rallies for two weeks. What about Biden and Wallace?

 

Nothing will probably happen, but there's a small chance Trump might go into intensive care before election day.

[Raithe]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

Let's see if both parties even have live candidates when we get to November...

 

US President Donald Trump has said he and First Lady Melania Trump have tested positive for coronavirus and are now in quarantine.

The president, aged 74 and therefore in a high-risk group, announced the news in a tweet. "We will get through this together," he wrote.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54381848

 

But the odds of it being some form of psych-out, that he'll turn around and do a "See, surviving Covid is easy and no hassle and it isn't as serious as people say it is" while at the same time using this news to drown out the questions over his support of white supremacy... ?

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Raithe said:

But the odds of it being some form of psych-out, that he'll turn around and do a "See, surviving Covid is easy and no hassle and it isn't as serious as people say it is" while at the same time using this news to drown out the questions over his support of white supremacy... ?

this doesn't seem plausible, but by the same token, trump claimed he were only tested on thursday immediate before his hannity interview. hope hicks were tested and were known to be positive thursday morning and she were displaying symptoms on wednesday. that timeline is no more plausible than your suggestion.

again, the wh were aware hope hicks might be covid-19 positive wednesday afternoon and knew she were positive thursday morning but trump went on with his day as usual and were not personal tested 'til late thursday eve? 

so, if this is the trump version o' a practical joke that he is gonna play out to its conclusion, at a minimum, everybody exposed to hicks, trump and melania (will no doubt be others) which is pretty much all the most essential persons in the executive branch, assuming they don't test positive, needs at least ten days o' isolation... with +30 days before the election? 

even if trump stays asymptomatic, which is the statistical most likely scenario...

...

gotcha?

ps am expecting a creative wh editing o' the timeline o' events which a few o' our more gullible board regulars will accept w/o any question.

pps extreme late edit after watching a bit o' fox news. am avoiding a double-post.

and speaking o' fake news, over at fox, the folks is suggesting that those wh persons who has tested negative may resume face-to-face meetings immediate. not true. it may take days for a virus load to build enough to show a positive test result. folks such as pompeo and meadows should stay isolated until they has had multiple negative test results for covid, depending on timelines... and again, who is gonna believe wh timelines given what we has been told so far. 

Edited October 2, 2020 by Gromnir

[Skarpen]

This is something to worry about. Trump not being able to make his rallies will hurt him as much as it would hurt Biden if they made him make rallies.

[Raithe]

Although you do have to enjoy the potential irony of the situation.

Trump possibly caught Covid off a woman.

A woman named "Hope"...

[Guard Dog]

2 hours ago, Pidesco said:

 

 What about Biden and Wallace?

 

 

I was wondering about that too.

[Elerond]

People joked about debates over zoom, after the debate, but looks like that it may actually be only way how remaining debates can be organized now 

[Guard Dog]

Covid is hardly a death sentence. It does have a survival rate north of 99%. Even though quite a few folks have died. But this will certainly sideline Trump and possibly Biden right in the middle of the campaign. That means the next two debates are likely a no-go. So Trump loses two opoprtunities to make an even bigger jackass of himself. 

[Gromnir]

3 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Covid is hardly a death sentence. It does have a survival rate north of 99%. Even though quite a few folks have died. But this will certainly sideline Trump and possibly Biden right in the middle of the campaign. That means the next two debates are likely a no-go. So Trump loses two opoprtunities to make an even bigger jackass of himself. 

survival rate is significantly worse for obese folks in their 70s with heart conditions. a number curious overlooked is the folks who get ill enough to require hospitalization, which is closer to 20% last we reviewed, but that were admitted a while ago and before increased testing, so could be lower... but again, whatever is the base rate for all population won't apply to trump as he presents multiple comorbidities. require hospitalization for a respiratory disease is no freaking joke, particular for old, fat and bad ticker. 

even so, most likely scenario is trump remains asymptomatic. 

HA! Good Fun!