so.. who is that random Lich guy ?

[Belsirk]

I may be wrong. But  I was with the impression that Concelhaut was the first successful lich in Eora. In part that is why his disciples were  able to do things that even Cabiros (the fampyr at Endless Path lvl 8 that had all the Engwithan skills used by Caed Nua and an eternity to improved them) was unable to do (like improving the guls).  And this also why other arch-mages were so worried about him.

 

So, who freaking is that random Lich that you can find at PoE2  on the flooded cave? 

A random  hidden mini-boss battle was good, but it feels like breaking the lore of the setting.

 

[Boeroer]

Maybe Concelhaut stumbled across those ancient dude's small lichdom and was plagiarizing?  

Maybe it's an Engwithan Lich - because the phylactery Concelhaut uses is explicitily called an "Engwithan phylactery". So even if some animancers of Engwith couldn't do this doesn't mean that some ancient Engwithan Archmage couldn't. I guess. Like Helig of Thein Concelhaut combines Necromancy with Animancy. Maybe this isn't all new stuff.

Also the Engwithan Saints emanate a lot of lichy vibes.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Boeroer

[house2fly]

From the monster description, there's enough liches to be plural. Apparently also void seers are the remains of liches, and Concelhaut had a few of those floating around

[thelee]

On 8/15/2020 at 3:24 AM, Belsirk said:

So, who freaking is that random Lich that you can find at PoE2  on the flooded cave? 

being the "first" lich doesn't mean "only," though. he had apprentices in poe1, so clearly unlike traditional d&d liches, concelhaut doesn't mind sharing his knowledge if it furthers his own ends. plus, liches are immortal--who knows how long concelhaut has been around; plenty of time for more liches to arise. even though llengrath has also been around for ages, concelhaut might precede even them since llengrath definitely came about post-wheel, whereas like boeroer points out, concelhaut may have preceded the wheel altogether.

Edited August 16, 2020 by thelee

[xzar_monty]

On 8/15/2020 at 10:02 PM, Boeroer said:

Like Helig of Thein Concelhaut combines Necromancy with Animancy. Maybe this isn't all new stuff.

Sorry to derail this a little bit, but was anyone else slightly disappointed by the fact that Helig of Thein is supposed to be a very old undead wizard but then you can actually kill him at a low level, and it isn't even difficult? The same goes for the "archmages" at Raedric's throne room -- killable at level 4. Some archmages they are.

[Boeroer]

Why is he supposed to be very old? He recently got killed by Moedred of the Sanitarium where they were both doing research and only since then was "undead". 

Also: being great at necromancy and animancy doesn't necessarily lead to being great at fighting random murder hobos.  

But ok: with such an impressive curriculum vitae a group of murder hobos might rightfully expect a bigger challenge. Especially because it was said that Helig single-handedly fought against the Northwatch Rangers and wiped them all except Dalton. Man, those rangers must have had dayflies as animal companions...

[thelee]

also let's remember that poe1 was a per-rest system, not a per-encounter system. Helig just hasn't figured out how to have a good night's rest yet, so all his good stuff wasn't available yet

[house2fly]

I was vaguely disappointed when I found out Helig was part of a quest. When I first played I went straight to the sewers as soon as I got to the city and stumbled on him, and his dialogue was basically "Yeah, I'm an evil necromancer. Go away." I enjoyed that he seemed to be just hanging out there doing his thing

[xzar_monty]

14 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Why is he supposed to be very old? He recently got killed by Moedred of the Sanitarium where they were both doing research and only since then was "undead".

Whoops. I was wrong there, so apologies for that. Anyway, I was still disappointed by how easy he was.

[Belsirk]

On 8/16/2020 at 5:53 PM, house2fly said:

From the monster description, there's enough liches to be plural. Apparently also void seers are the remains of liches, and Concelhaut had a few of those floating around

Yeah, but from the  PoE1 context  sounds more that  liches are something new (or something rediscovered recently)

 

On 8/15/2020 at 9:02 PM, Boeroer said:

Maybe Concelhaut stumbled across those ancient dude's small lichdom and was plagiarizing?  

. So even if some animancers of Engwith couldn't do this doesn't mean that some ancient Engwithan Archmage couldn't. I guess. Like Helig of Thein Concelhaut combines Necromancy with Animancy. Maybe this isn't all new stuff.

Also the Engwithan Saints emanate a lot of lichy vibes.

Yeah, it may be possible. After all between Caed Nua and the creation of the gods  a lot of time passed.  And Cabrio could consider to be on the climax and didn't care any more about improving the stuff.

 

On 8/16/2020 at 7:33 PM, thelee said:

-who knows how long concelhaut has been around; plenty of time for more liches to arise.

Two or Three Llengrath's lifetime . If I remember well from the dialogues. The previous incarnation of Llengrath knew Concelhaut when he was still a normal mortal (or, his words could have been intentionally not clear enough to hide  Concelhaut's age).

Another possibility is that  Wael's cult erased  the second lich from history. But then, how is that  he is still able to roam Deadfire so freely ?  But, again, if he predates the gods it could explain it.  (Still, then it was a good lich who only care about living without interfering with exterior world until some hobbos entered his cave and slaughter him)

[ArnoldRimmer]

I'm not sure how true this is, but I read somewhere on the internet* a while ago that the lich you meet in the cave was actually originally concelhaut, but then Obsidian made a change (maybe due to a stretch goal) and added him to the lighthouse storyline. So the lich in the cave was just a drop in replacement form CH.

 

* I have no idea now where that was, so don't ask for a link please!

Edited November 6, 2020 by ArnoldRimmer

[asnjas]

Ekera, They forgot their own lore ekera. 

Ekera, Haelig was just some guy that kept himself alive. Really good doctors die all the time, what say. 

 

[Boeroer]

Maybe. But Helig was dead.