Politics - wait for it... wait for it... 2020 isn't over yet

[Malcador]

The guy who got killed in Portland has me wondering why the cops aren't keeping these people apart (well, ignoring the likelihood that one side is themselves, anyway).

[Hurlshort]

12 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

 

Stop excusing rioters, looters and criminals... 

 

The major difference I saw there is the riot police didn't spray tear gas everywhere and they didn't hit anyone, and then they seemed to retreat when things escalated.

So maybe stop excusing the riot police in the US. 

[Malcador]

18 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

 

This is how you protest... These are pictures of peaceful protests. And these can be done against a REAL regime... 

 

 

Stop excusing rioters, looters and criminals... 

 

 

I think this shows how crap US cops are in comparison to Belorussian ones

[Volourn]

"The major difference I saw there is the riot police didn't spray tear gas everywhere and they didn't hit anyone, and then they seemed to retreat when things escalated.

So maybe stop excusing the riot police in the US. "

 

The protests in this pics are during the day. The more violent aggressive protests/riots in the US are at night.

Claiming the p[olice ar e'violent' is reason for 'protestors' to burn down innocent people (often minority owned)'s businesses is ridiculous silly.

It is also funny that a number of cops killed so far are black. But, you know, 'Black Lives Matter'.

How many people have the police killed during these protests? How many people have the 'protestors' (both sides) killed?

So maybe stop excusing the rioters in the US.

In the US when there is a 'peaceful' protestor they get MURDERED by fellow protestors when they try to LEAVE  a VIOLENT riot but you don't care.

 

A white BLMer stabba black man wearing a red hat. You, Grom, and the left didn't care.

But, some white kid protected himself from some white trash pedophile and his psycho buddies and you go nuts. 

 

LMAO

[Malcador]

Wonder when Volo will start gnashing his teeth about White Genocide.

[Volourn]

Nah. I'll be long dead so I won't have to worry about it. L0L

Besdies, I may be 'white skinned trash' but according to the gov't I am technically native. LMAO (at least I qualify for a status card, lmao, my bro already has one).

[Darkpriest]

1 hour ago, Hurlshot said:

The major difference I saw there is the riot police didn't spray tear gas everywhere and they didn't hit anyone, and then they seemed to retreat when things escalated.

So maybe stop excusing the riot police in the US. 

Actually they did, and did it in far more voilent way than US police. Difference is, populace does not respond with voilence buy with more people chanting and grouping. That's how you can have crowds of over 200k and no property damage. 

 

One of many examples:

Gatherings of over 200k people

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Darkpriest

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Googlefu says 39 officers in Belarus were injured on August 9th. https://www.rbc.ru/society/10/08/2020/5f3109a19a79471588e4f57e

These so-called protestors in Belarus are rioters and criminals which makes them EVIL. There is NO excuse for violence (outside of the state's) and they need to express their dissent with civility by voting instead of this.

Stop excusing criminals.

[Darkpriest]

2 minutes ago, KaineParker said:

Googlefu says 39 officers in Belarus were injured on August 9th. https://www.rbc.ru/society/10/08/2020/5f3109a19a79471588e4f57e

These so-called protestors in Belarus are rioters and criminals which makes them EVIL. There is NO excuse for violence (outside of the state's) and they need to express their dissent with civility by voting instead of this.

Stop excusing criminals.

Did the looting and destruction of property happened or was it during detention attempts? How many proteters were injured, detained and beaten during interogations on that day? 

[Zoraptor]

The Bylerussian police are probably disappearing people and torturing people. Probably because western media is happy to acritically report one side of the story but not the other, to whit...

...both Belsat and VoA are state sponsored propaganda channels, and are useful mostly for telling you what the Polish and US governments respectively want you to think (and in Belsat's case, what the Polish government wants Byelorussians to think). Same as RT/ CCTV are mostly good for telling you what the Russian or Chinese want you to think.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

15 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

Did the looting and destruction of property happened or was it during detention attempts? How many proteters were injured, detained and beaten during interogations on that day? 

Why should it matter? Looks like you're excusing violence to cover for "protestors" who like beating and killing.

[Hurlshort]

It seems like it would be healthier to just hope that things get better soon in both the US and Belarus, instead of trying to turn it into a competition. 

[Volourn]

Competition is healthy. For example, Kanada has had the biggest NA mass shooting thus far this year. YAY US!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

15 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

It seems like it would be healthier to just hope that things get better soon in both the US and Belarus, instead of trying to turn it into a competition. 

I agree, I just think it's strange how some folks can be so inconsistent based on how much they like who or what is being protested. Even if some protestors in Belarus were violent or looted it wouldn't change that they're going against a tyrannical state that needs to go.

[Gromnir]

broad generalizations about the protesters isn't fair. however, by now it should be apparent trump and his followers don't care about fair. 

the lack of leadership amongst the protest movements is an excellent way to thwart authoritarian efforts to shut down a movement. if there is no metaphorical head to be severed, then the government loses one of its more effective and time honoured tactics. with the availability of smartphones, social media and the internet to connect it all, you don't need any kinda leader to organize a movement. 

trump, and people like vol, will continue to generalize protests and protesters to an unreasonable degree, and there is no nationally recognizable individual or leadership council to push back on such unfairness. when a protester does engage in violence, there isn't a leader who will go on tv and publicly repudiate the violence, making it clear that the protesters in general reject violence. when elements of the protesters begin arming themselves because of the presence of armed militia groups and cops are using increasingly violent means, there is no leadership council pointing to john lewis' example as a way to convince protesters that violence and carrying firearms will not help the cause.

lack of leadership is an extremely effective way to combat authoritarian government efforts at suppression, and if portland or kenosha was in china, we would advocate such a model.  unfortunate, it's an election year in a country struggling to hold onto its democracy in the face of an administration increasingly dismissive of the rule of law and of personal freedoms. trump's appeals to fear and ignorance will reach more than a few wavering voters. democrats should be worried regardless of the manifest unfairness of the accusations directed at the protests.

however, once again, am admitting we don't have a solution. who is in a position to step forward and become the face and voice of the protests? unlikely any politician would do so as such would put their own career in jeopardy. keep in mind mlk were never particular popular with the population at large during his lifetime. 

we got nothing.

HA! Good Fun!

[Bartimaeus]

Just now, Gromnir said:

trump, and people like vol, will continue to generalize protests and protesters to an unreasonable degree

And as @KaineParker pointed out, it is rather incongruous how it's perfectly well and good to wholly generalize certain groups...say, the protestors...while saying or suggesting it would be totally wrong to do the same to others...say, cops. The reverse situation, of course, happens elsewhere with people on the opposite extreme of things, but given that hardly any (none?) of us are saying "ALL COPS ARE PIGS" or anything of the like, but rather making more pointed criticisms of police as a flawed institution (criticisms that have long been known to and held by many), it seems weird to use us as your sounding board on the radical evils of protestors. Has anybody here extolled the virtues of the protestors/rioters that have gone too far and murdered anyone or razed anything (or attempted to)? Maybe somebody did and I don't remember. Don't think anybody here has even gone so far as to say "defund the police" or anything of the like, either.

[Gromnir]

63% support Black Lives Matter as recognition of discrimination jumps: POLL

those numbers have changed since june. is now close to 50-50 in most national polls, and in a few battlegrounds, blm is underwater, so to speak.

fair isn't part o' trump's vocabulary.  you think trump planned a trip to kenosha to unify the country? he wants fires and mayhem, and if he doesn't get as much pyrotechnics as he wants, he will show images from protests in spain.

trump's supporters don't care 'bout reasons. they want an excuse to continue supporting trump and the excuse need not be unassailable or even believable. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

This myth that BLM or Antifa doesn't have leaders is nonsense. They are official 'organziations' trademarked. They have founders and people who gladly brag about how they 'founded' them. Actual BLM brag about the violence and riots.  They alternate between there 'are no riots and looting' and 'rioting and looting is justified'. It is intellectual dishonest to claim otherwise.  They're organized enough to charter buses to go state to stat and city to city. LMAO

But, I get it.Only the 'good' protestors are actual BLm and Antifa. All the violent ones are Trumptards.

 

You know, that fellow who stabbed the black guy wearing a red hat was clearly pro Trump. I mean, COME ON.

 

But, hey, at least this way here, we can wave the magic wand and claim no BLM/Antifa/left winger has murder anyone in the last 5 years. HAHAHAHA.

 

P.S. I have never claimed 'all protestors' are violent psychopaths. Please don't lie. It is rude.

 

But, hey, keep cheering the black protestor getting murdered by other 'peaceful' protestors when she tries to leave a 'protest' getting more violent. I see zero outrage about that.  But, I guess, to you fellows, she deserved it.  Or those two black kids murdered by those 'peaceful protesters' thatw ere running that 'free country'. That's A-Okay.

 

Seems I'm more pro peaceful protestor than you are.

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Volourn said:

This myth that BLM or Antifa doesn't have leaders is nonsense. They are official 'organziations' trademarked. They have founders and people who gladly brag about how they 'founded' them. Actual BLM brag about the violence and riots.  They alternate between there 'are no riots and looting' and 'rioting and looting is justified'. It is intellectual dishonest to claim otherwise.  They're organized enough to charter buses to go state to stat and city to city. LMAO

 

blm, as o' a couple months ago, were not trademarked. as o' the beginning o' this year, back when we still cared 'bout such stuff and stayed educated, there had been more than a dozen attempts to trademark blm. were even a european attempt. is some slogans which got trademarked, but not "blm," or "black lives matter." am suspecting the trademark efforts has increased since we looked.

the biggest problem facing a blm trademark is all the different groups who use blm as their name and slogan. given how widespread is the usage, is difficult to procure trademark rights, and such should only become more difficult.

honest don't know 'bout antifa as it were founded in europe like 80 years past and am not sure o' the history o' the euro trademark efforts.

regardless, what would be a paradoxical question for a more reflective person is water off a duck's back for vol. such willful indifference must be blissful, no? argument:

any group or organization had a founder or founders and those founders constitute a kind of leadership. all groups, no matter how decentralized has a functional leadership history and cannot be described as leaderless. blm had founders and is a recognizable entity. therefore, blm has leaders.

now is obvious such logic is strained, but vol cannot see the problem. if any o' the premises fail, so too does the argument, and belief founder=leadership, particular years and even decades removed is a curious conclusion, particular for a group purposefully designed to avoid the need for leadership. is literal dozens, if not hundreds o' groups claiming to be part o' blm with no direct involvement with the founders o' blm or any group whose origin might be attributed to those founders. again, is part o' the difficulty with blm gaining trademark protections 'cause is not particular convincing when any one blm group claims to be the blm.

this is another case where vol read something somewhere and got confused... probable 'cause gatewaypundit or breitbart intentional tried to mislead him. blm, as o' june 2020, did not have a trademark, but, for example, a sportswear manufacturer did get a slogan trademarked which included "black lives matter." am honest not recalling the exact slogan, but were ~ a dozen words in length. had to be a bit wordy to be sufficient distinct and unique from blm. 

'course this all undercuts vol's conclusion 'bout the blm organization. nobody has a blm trademark in part 'cause in spite o' multiple efforts to do so, there ain't been anybody who sufficient identified as the blm. 

if vol has a question 'bout trademark, he shouldn't rely on the internet, and particular not the corners where he tends to lurk.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

The irony is if the protesters want Trump gone the violence and destruction that has occurred could easily have the opposite effect. Not suggesting all protests are violent but no one is stopping them when they are. The way I figure it BLM started out as a group with a legit axe to grind. Now it has been subverted by the crazies. 

[Gorth]

4 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

Did the looting and destruction of property happened or was it during detention attempts? How many proteters were injured, detained and beaten during interogations on that day? 

 

"Belarus elections: Shocked by violence, people lose their fear"

"A 25-year-old man died in custody after he was detained on Sunday. His mother said he had been held in a police van for hours.

A street very close to my home in Minsk was at the heart of one of the confrontations between police and protesters this week.

Stun grenades went off and people screamed as riot police struck them with batons. The screams were so loud that they drowned out the sound of the grenades."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53762995

 

Of course, after reporting on the riot polices brutality, non state sanctioned  journalism was no longer welcome

"Belarus: Journalists covering protests stripped of accreditation"

"Authorities in Belarus have withdrawn the accreditation of a number of journalists who have been reporting on post-election protests there for foreign media outlets."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53924922

 

No doubt Trump is envious of a totalitarian state that can just get rid of independent reporting of events and fix the election outcomes with the backing of the riot police

[Gromnir]

Jim Gaffigan

just a comedian and no more relevant than anybody else. nevertheless, has been all too easy to pretend as if the common sense o' salt of the earth midwesterners had disappeared long before their 401ks.  am relieved, even if we know the feeling is fleeting and ephemeral.

HA! Good Fun!

ps @Guard Dog is making the same mistake as vol and is being led down the rabbit hole by trump. there is crazy protesters and violent protesters and stoopid protesters.  look, am the guy who keeps saying is wrong to generalize cops and law enforcement departments even if we do see a problem with training in general. not fair to blame all cops or even all police departments. is similar not fair to blame all protesters or most.

however, it is becoming far easier to blame many protesters even if they is being confronted by unsavory d-bags like the seventeen year old with the ar-15 and by too many cops who is looking to use tear gas and rubber bullets on somebody. for the folks who listen to conservative radio and watch fox news, the streets are running red with blood and only trump can save 'em from anarchy... regardless o' the fact the anarchy is happening now, with trump as President. 

oh, and for gd in particular, am thinking the protest related fatalities dwindle substantial if people recognize just how asinine it is to be carrying 'round firearms at protests. there will be tempers flaring, in the darkness and accidents will happen. what could possibly go wrong if you have people carrying firearms in such a situation? isn't a matter o' second amendment rights. is 'bout good sense. just 'cause law says you can have your loaded ar-15 as you protests or protest the protesters, doesn't mean you should. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

36 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

Jim Gaffigan

just a comedian and no more relevant than anybody else. nevertheless, has been all too easy to pretend as if the common sense o' salt of the earth midwesterners had disappeared long before their 401ks.  am relieved, even if we know the feeling is fleeting and ephemeral.

HA! Good Fun!

ps @Guard Dog is making the same mistake as vol and is being led down the rabbit hole by trump. there is crazy protesters and violent protesters and stoopid protesters.  look, am the guy who keeps saying is wrong to generalize cops and law enforcement departments even if we do see a problem with training in general. not fair to blame all cops or even all police departments. is similar not fair to blame all protesters or most.

however, it is becoming far easier to blame many protesters even if they is being confronted by unsavory d-bags like the seventeen year old with the ar-15 and by too many cops who is looking to use tear gas and rubber bullets on somebody. for the folks who listen to conservative radio and watch fox news, the streets are running red with blood and only trump can save 'em from anarchy... regardless o' the fact the anarchy is happening now, with trump as President. 

oh, and for gd in particular, am thinking the protest related fatalities dwindle substantial if people recognize just how asinine it is to be carrying 'round firearms at protests. there will be tempers flaring, in the darkness and accidents will happen. what could possibly go wrong if you have people carrying firearms in such a situation? isn't a matter o' second amendment rights. is 'bout good sense. just 'cause law says you can have your loaded ar-15 as you protests or protest the protesters, doesn't mean you should. 

Oh no argument from me. People who go looking for trouble tend to find it.  As long as "protesters" stay away from my home we'll be fine. I certainly don't go looking for them. I suggest others do likewise. But, I am not painting them with the broad brush. I'm just pointing out it is happening and the protesters are making it easy to do so. In a normal election year Trump would have no shot. But the more violent protests there are the more the Democrats will be forced to defend it the more Trump benefits. There are many good reasons not to beat people and burn s--t down. I just gave another one. Even if most are not doing that it just won't matter. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Guard Dog

[Volourn]

"gatewaypundit or breitbart"

 

haven't heard of the first. I only read 2nd when people link it. If anything I get my 'news' at yahoo which is clearly left. LMAO

 

"confronted by unsavory d-bags like the seventeen year old"

Talk about FAKE NEWS. They confronted him. He even helped some who got attacked by cops. LMAO But, I guess 'confroNTation' = standing in front of store so it doesn't get pillaged.

They literally tried to assault and murder him multiple times. You just cry because he didn't end up did like that Trumpard last night or that black red hat wearing Trumptard who got stabbed.

Then again, you like putting pedophiles and abusers on a pedestal.

17 year old runs from pedophile, falls down, pedophile tries to rape hi, 17 year old manages to defend himself and shoots pedophile. Somehow 17 year old is bad guy. LMAO

 

Oh, I forgot, only 'lefties' are allowed to be on the streets marching, and looting, and using violence. 

Still, nothing from you about the protestor who got murdered by a protestor because she tried to leave a protest that was getting violent. Or those black cops who got murdered by BLM and Antifa.

Because their lives don't matter. They are the 'wrong' kind of black people to you.

 

Or the 5 year old white kid murdered by BLM. He is just whitey. Not worth Gromnir's time.

Gotta post how BLm and Antifa never use violence EVEN THOUGH they *brag* about doing.

 

 

[Volourn]

BLM at it again: https://streamable.com/vcsuy8