Gromnir Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 48 minutes ago, BruceVC said: Those are not acceptable or even remotely effective odds.....even if they turn out to be true with the v1.0 vaccines The good news this is a unique virus, albeit similar to others , and we cannot prognosticate with any real accuracy how effective the vaccine will be or how more effective V.xxxx will be until its released and we see the real outcome So Im much more optimistic than a 50 % efficacy IF virtual everybody took the vaccine, 50-60% efficacy would be fantastic even if it sounds uninspired. Dr. Anthony Fauci says chance of coronavirus vaccine being highly effective is 'not great' current basement number is described as 50% but obviously that kinda number is more for public benefit than real world. Scientists are hoping for a coronavirus vaccine that is at least 75% effective, but 50% or 60% effective would be acceptable, too, Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said during a Q&A with the Brown University School of Public Health. "The chances of it being 98% effective is not great, which means you must never abandon the public health approach." "You've got to think of the vaccine as a tool to be able to get the pandemic to no longer be a pandemic, but to be something that's well controlled," he said. The Food and Drug Administration has said it would authorize a coronavirus vaccine so long as it is safe and at least 50% effective. Dr. Stephen Hahn, the FDA's commissioner, said last month that the vaccine or vaccines that end up getting authorized will prove to be more than 50% effective, but it's possible the U.S. could end up with a vaccine that, on average, reduces a person's risk of a Covid-19 infection by just 50%. "We really felt strongly that that had to be the floor," Hahn said on July 30, adding that it's "been batted around among medical groups." HA! Good Fun! 1 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Gromnir said: IF virtual everybody took the vaccine, 50-60% efficacy would be fantastic even if it sounds uninspired. Dr. Anthony Fauci says chance of coronavirus vaccine being highly effective is 'not great' current basement number is described as 50% but obviously that kinda number is more for public benefit than real world. Scientists are hoping for a coronavirus vaccine that is at least 75% effective, but 50% or 60% effective would be acceptable, too, Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said during a Q&A with the Brown University School of Public Health. "The chances of it being 98% effective is not great, which means you must never abandon the public health approach." "You've got to think of the vaccine as a tool to be able to get the pandemic to no longer be a pandemic, but to be something that's well controlled," he said. The Food and Drug Administration has said it would authorize a coronavirus vaccine so long as it is safe and at least 50% effective. Dr. Stephen Hahn, the FDA's commissioner, said last month that the vaccine or vaccines that end up getting authorized will prove to be more than 50% effective, but it's possible the U.S. could end up with a vaccine that, on average, reduces a person's risk of a Covid-19 infection by just 50%. "We really felt strongly that that had to be the floor," Hahn said on July 30, adding that it's "been batted around among medical groups." HA! Good Fun! I will only be happy with at least a 70-75% efficacy, the spread risk and its continuing, negative impact on our lives is to great with much less than that number People dont want to go back to work or live like they use to primarily due to real fears and some unnecessary concerns, but its occurring on levels unseen and unprecedented in the history of mankind or rather the way the worlds economies work.....the negative impact to the prolonged, global economic shutdown cannot be underestimated Edited September 2, 2020 by BruceVC 1 "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, BruceVC said: I will only be happy with at least a 70-75% efficacy, the spread risk and its continuing, negative impact on our lives is to great with much less than that number People dont want to go back to work or live like they use due primarily to real fears and some unnecessary concerns, but its occurring on levels unseen and unprecedented in the history of mankind or rather the way the worlds economies work.....the negative impact to the prolonged, global economic shutdown cannot be underestimated isn't so much 'bout bruce satisfaction as it is 'bout convincing people to take the vaccine. again, the vaccine is not anticipated to be a guarantee o' individual safety. much like masks and social distancing, the vaccine, with wide enough use, will "starve" covid-19 to the point where people may go back to something approximating pre 2020 life. the thing is, if people do not understand the benefits o' the vaccine or are too stubborn to listen to health experts, far too many people will fogoe taking the vaccine for it to be effective in halting the pandemic. is so utter disappointing that as efficacy o' the vaccine drops, willingness to take the vaccine similar dips. reality is that as the vaccine's individual efficacy drops, is actual more incumbent 'pon people to take it when it is available. again, much like masks, take the vaccine, particular if you are younger or healthy, will go a long way towards saving some rando person whose name you will never learn, a person three or four degrees of separation from you who becomes infected because you didn't take the vaccine. as were made clear with vol, am not advocating mandatory vaccinations (though private companies and possibly even schools may indeed decide that their services will be off limits to those who do not take.) however, once the government refuses to make behaviour mandatory, that means the responsibility to do the right thing is 'pon individuals. you can public burn a quran and post youtube video o' such. right to is not same as wise to. similar, refusal to take a safe and 50% effective vaccine is arguable irresponsible... and am gonna suggest the argument is strong. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-russia-vaccine/results-of-russias-covid-19-vaccine-produced-antibody-response-the-lancet-idUSKBN25V1I2 Russian vaccine had good results https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31866-3/fulltext 1 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Malcador said: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-russia-vaccine/results-of-russias-covid-19-vaccine-produced-antibody-response-the-lancet-idUSKBN25V1I2 Russian vaccine had good results https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31866-3/fulltext Good news, anything and any country that can help us globally acquire an effective ( 70-75 % )vaccine I applaud and support "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 "Russian vaccine had good results " better dead than red 1 The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 9 hours ago, HoonDing said: "Russian vaccine had good results " better dead than red Yes this applies to ideological views but not things like Russian vaccines, Russian PC games/software products , Russian strippers, Russian tourism ...all of that is fine What you must always reject is Communism\Socialism and its attempts to weaken and destroy our societies "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skarpen Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 15 hours ago, BruceVC said: Good news, anything and any country that can help us globally acquire an effective ( 70-75 % )vaccine I applaud and support Let's see if politics will play into this. My bet is that this vaccine if proven succesful will be shunned by many because the "wrong country" made it. 4 hours ago, BruceVC said: Yes this applies to ideological views but not things like Russian vaccines, Russian PC games/software products , Russian strippers, Russian tourism ...all of that is fine What you must always reject is Communism\Socialism and its attempts to weaken and destroy our societies Did you seriously just slipped Russian strippers in the list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 BVC has a long and distinguished history with Russian strippers. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidSeal Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 I remember when Corona was just a beer. Take me back, jack! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Today South Africa is releasing there second quarter economic data, not third quarter as we are 3 months behind Before the virus we had been downgraded and we were in a recession and then the virus happened and then we all experienced the economic lockdown which made things economically even worse ....we saved lives with the economic lockdown but destroyed livelihoods. Its going to be a bloodbath in SA with our results and sadly I predict the worst economic data in living memory "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/south-african-economy-contracts-51-q-q-in-q2-2020-09-08 The SA economy has shrunk by 51 % in the second quarter. Its unequivocally, absolutely terrible data but not as bad as I thought....not that it makes a difference because its going to take us years to recover "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agiel Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Vaccine Makers Plan Public Stance to Counter Pressure on FDA How many people had the "Drug Makers push FDA for more caution & regulation" headline on their 2020 bingo card? Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 On 9/5/2020 at 1:23 AM, BruceVC said: What you must always reject is Communism\Socialism and its attempts to weaken and destroy our societies You're a banker, right ? 1 2 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azdeus Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Agiel said: Vaccine Makers Plan Public Stance to Counter Pressure on FDA How many people had the "Drug Makers push FDA for more caution & regulation" headline on their 2020 bingo card? I'll say this much, in Sweden there's a public fund for anyone that gets damages from a vaccine, but even so I'm not to keen on taking a vaccine with such a short development cycle and quite possibly testing cycle. When the H1N1 "Swine flu" hit and people were vaccinated left and right, Sweden and Finland had a bunch of people get hit very bad from the Pandemrix flu shot. I have two friends that has had their lives ruined and didn't get any proper reimbursement for years because it had to be scientifically proven that the shot was behind it. (Not really against that part, it is needed) Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/08/oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-trial-hold-suspected-adverse-reaction/ A very concerning development around the vaccine trails that are globally ongoing, the Oxford trial has been temporarily suspended due to a bad reaction on a volunteer I suppose this is to be expected considering the number of ongoing trails but it does raise the question and reality " how many of these trials are going to fail and or have a negative outcome " ? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 1 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 12 minutes ago, Gfted1 said: Well many people have raised concerns with V1.0, you made me realize this is a legitimate concern ...the whole " guinea pig " analogy. It doesnt matter if its all 100 % true or exaggerated , its the fact that the view exists that we need to realize is legitimate These vaccines cannot be rushed and definitely shouldn't be politicized "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 But...but...what about the rando 3 or 4 degrees separated, that may possibly get infected if you are asymptomatic? It was hard to say that with a straight face. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartimaeus Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) Link contains audio recordings of Trump saying that he knew it was airborne, that he knew that it could actually be deadly for even young people, that it was much more deadly than the flu, and that he was deliberately "playing it down" in public, etc. all back in February and March. I don't know what possessed him to give this candid interview to Bob Woodward of all people, but I don't think it was a good idea...for him, that is. Edited September 9, 2020 by Bartimaeus Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 50 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said: I don't know what possessed him to give this candid interview to Bob Woodward of all people, but I don't think it was a good idea...for him, that is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 just imagine everything he revealed to Putin, Kim Jong-un and Xi Jinping The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 7 hours ago, Bartimaeus said: he knew that it could actually be deadly for even young people What Trump "knows" at any given point is always better taken with a grain of salt. I just wish people were more consistent about it. CDC, as of 9/5/2020, lists a grand total of 377 dead aged 0-24 which represents about 1% of total dead from all causes in that age bracket, with 90%+ of fatalities involving rona being people over 55. So yeah, technically deadly for young people (as in "someone died of it ever") but not really remarkable in a public health discussion context. 2 - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, 213374U said: What Trump "knows" at any given point is always better taken with a grain of salt. I just wish people were more consistent about it. CDC, as of 9/5/2020, lists a grand total of 377 dead aged 0-24 which represents about 1% of total dead from all causes in that age bracket, with 90%+ of fatalities involving rona being people over 55. So yeah, technically deadly for young people (as in "someone died of it ever") but not really remarkable in a public health discussion context. I agree and also there have been several countries that sadly suffered a terrible price initially due to none of us understanding the real nature of the virus spread and certain things about the virus that we now know like asymptomatic carriers , the deadly risk that medical staff face with being exposed to multiple sick people without PPE , the fact the virus molecules float in the air and thats why confined spaces like clubs and bars become virus spread breeding grounds and also how younger people can get the virus but the mortality is very low and how most young people are asymptomatic This understanding of the virus we now have was gained at a cost to many countries like Italy, Spain and parts of the USA but particularly NY. One day when the virus spread has been addressed with the vaccine this will be properly discussed and the sacrifice these places made needs to be recognized. And of course many other countries also have suffered and there contribution also matters like China and SK. But what happened around the initial virus impact in Italy, Spain and NY was the first time international news networks had complete and unrestricted access to the reality of the virus and the rest of the world got to see it ......and it was huge shock to most of us I will never forget the haunting and evocative images of the initial deaths of medical staff in these countries, the hospitals overflowing and people literally dying in the corridors and this famous video in Spain of people paying tribute to medical staff going to work in a time where the virus had killed and was killing medical staff due to lack of global understanding in correct PPE Anyway in summary I just want to say I wish some people and some media houses in the USA would stop being surprised with Trumps lack of knowledge around the virus or constantly focusing and being " shocked " on what he says about the virus when the scientific data is globally available around certain things we should already know Edited September 10, 2020 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 another in the file o' callous d-bags who do not care 'bout the 3-4 degrees o' separation 'tween infected (but otherwise healthy) to the eventual and predictable covid riddled corpses. WE ALL HAVE COVID, LET'S PARTY!!! HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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