Fire Shield + Swift Flurry

[Boeroer]

Hello,

another little discovery I wanted to share:

Fire Shield (the enchantment on Magran's Blessing, NOT the wizard's Flame Shield) can trigger Swift Flurry and Heartbeat Drumming. Those will not proc further fire shield attacks but instead proc main hand attack rolls. So for example if you have a Battle Axe with Bleeding Cuts in the main hand (probably Magran's Favor) and Magran's Blessing as shield, then crits from Fire Shield can proc additional attacks from the Battle Axe with Bleeding Cuts. So this shield might increase your damage output even though the Fire Shield itself is pretty whimpy itself. For a Monk that is...  

Don't know if that's already common knowledge - but I didn't read about it.

Have fun!    

[Elric Galad]

I think it's technically categorized as "Weapon" Attack, so everything applying to weapon should apply to it. That was my impression when modding it with the help of Noqn.

I guess it generates Focus.

[Boeroer]

The Fire Shield retaliation seems to be not only a "weapon" but a "melee weapon" attack I guess (inherited from the bash or the shield as melee weapon itself?) - since Swift Flurry usually only gets triggered by those?

Other retaliation effects I tested (Ragged Cloak, Flame Shield, Darcozzi's Lay on Hands etc.) don't want to proc SF/HBD as far as I can tell. 

Speaking of Darcozzi/Flame Shield: made a Darcozzi/Bloodmage with Magran's Blessing and all Fire/Flame Shields will stack (as a side note).

[Elric Galad]

7 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

The Fire Shield retaliation seems to be not only a "weapon" but a "melee weapon" attack I guess (inherited from the bash or the shield as melee weapon itself?) - since Swift Flurry usually only gets triggered by those?

Other retaliation effects I tested (Ragged Cloak, Flame Shield, Darcozzi's Lay on Hands etc.) don't want to proc SF/HBD as far as I can tell. 

Speaking of Darcozzi/Flame Shield: made a Darcozzi/Bloodmage with Magran's Blessing and all Fire/Flame Shields will stack (as a side note).

And Fire Godlike ?

[Boeroer]

Oh, didn't check, haha.

[Boeroer]

So, Battle Forged (Fire Godlike) stacks with all of them but doesn't seem to trigger Swift Flurry - at least I couldn't see it while trying. During the same test Fire Shield triggered it several times.

Still: Battle-Forged + Lay on Hands (Darcozzi) + Magran's Blessing + Flame Shield is pretty cool in combination with Combusting Wounds. You get hit and create 4 instances of CW on the enemy right away. Sacred Immolation helps to get to Blooded pretty quickly.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Boeroer

[L4wlight]

You could as well add One Dozen Stood for another instance of fire retaliation.

[Elric Galad]

7 hours ago, Boeroer said:

So, Battle Forged (Fire Godlike) stacks with all of them but doesn't seem to trigger Swift Flurry - at least I couldn't see it while trying. During the same test Fire Shield triggered it several times.

Still: Battle-Forged + Lay on Hands (Darcozzi) + Magran's Blessing + Flame Shield is pretty cool in combination with Combusting Wounds. You get hit and create 4 instances of CW on the enemy right away. Sacred Immolation helps to get to Blooded pretty quickly.

Does going Fire Godlike worth it though ? Even with CP added scaling, it has a weak base of 2-4 damages and I'm not even sure PR scales...

[Boeroer]

I never take it. The +1 AR is not bad though. The retaliation is nothing to write home about. 

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

I never take it. The +1 AR is not bad though. The retaliation is nothing to write home about. 

OK, I'll consider looking at it.

Do you think Moon Godlike are OK after CP buff ?

[dgray62]

It sounds like a fiery sage (helwalker/bloodmage) might be an interesting build with Magran's shield. You'd get the swift flurry/heartbeat drumming procs with the turning wheel flame lash, and would be pretty durable with the added deflection from the shield, You could use Magran's Favor or Keeper of the Flame in the MH, and, when fighting fire resistant or immune foes, go unarmed with the MH and the shield in the OH, and cast Concelhaut's draining touch.

[Boeroer]

44 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Do you think Moon Godlike are OK after CP buff ?

Can't say, never took one either.

[Elric Galad]

10 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Can't say, never took one either.

While we are here.

I feel that Nature and Death Godlike are fine. And you ?

[Boeroer]

Can't say a lot about Death Godlike because I only used that once or twice for thematic reasons and it didn't feel very impactful - I didn't use BDD shenanigans to unlock he really good part often though (Pallid Fate's +3 PL). If you do then it's certainly great. Maybe some ranged build which lowers its health to near death and stays there would also be ok, no idea. The +20% against enemies who are near death (Death's Usher): meeeeh.

Nature Godlike's Wellsprig of Life is fine. The +1 PL is very easy to trigger and it's as good as any headgear in my opinion.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Boeroer

[Haplok]

Not nearly as good as Deltro's Cage for offensive casters with access to shock... 

[Boeroer]

Yeah what is?

[Elric Galad]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Can't say a lot about Death Godlike because I only used that once or twice for thematic reasons and it didn't feel very impactful - I didn't use BDD shenanigans to unlock he really good part often though (Pallid Fate's +3 PL). If you do that it's certainly great. Maybe some ranged build which lowers its health to near death and stays there would also be ok, no idea. The +20% against enemies who are near death (Death's Usher): meeeeh.

Nature Godlike's Wellsprig of Life is fine. The +1 PL is very easy to trigger and it's as good as any headgear in my opinion.

Death's Usher isn't great on its own, but since you get it in addition to Pallid Fate, I like it. It helps mitigating sitiuationl issue of Pallid Fate.

Moon Godlike 3 procs healas much as a Tier 1 Priest spell. Even with better PL scaling from CP, it is still not much. 10 health per proc is OK at level 1, it could get +2 per level without feeling too strong I think.

Fire Godlike : I'm hesitating between rising the health threshold to 75%, adding +1AR (for total +2) below the threshold and/or simply increasing damages. I have to check the PEN too, since passive usually doesn't scale. 12 PEN at level 20 would make sense, and if it requires 12 PEN at level 1, I'll do it (low damages could compensate).
I've already set Fire AR to +4 instead of +2 (this is minor but logical, so they have as much fire AR as pale elves). 

[Elric Galad]

On 6/2/2020 at 11:28 PM, Boeroer said:

Can't say, never took one either.

So for Godlikes, what I am thinking about :

I'm trying to make the effect weak at low level, since you don't get good helmets at this point.

Moon Godlike : 10 health +2/PL (I think it's pseudo-PL like Monastic Unarmed Training) so it would sit around 30 at max level.
CP made it 10 health +1/PL
This would be comparable to restore (except for PL scaling) but with much greater AoE.
This 3x per encounter would feel enough, even if you don't control it. Maybe even a tad strong. It's around 100 party health for the price of a Helmet and Racial.

Fire Godlike :
(I have already set ashen skin to +4 Fire AR to match Pale Elves)
+1AR under 50% -> +2
Base Damages 2-4 -> 4-5
Damage increase : +20%/PL ((I think it's pseudo-PL  too), so ultimately close to fire shield.
PEN scaling (from base 7) : +0.5/PL (so it would be comfortable at high levels).

[dunehunter]

@Elric Galad MaxQuest had an old mod about races balance before the CP, I wonder why he didn't integrate it into CP? Here is the link if u don't know it yet https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/274?tab=description

And here's the quote of changes:

Version 1.0.0: 
Includes changes to playable godlike races:
  - Moon Godlike: 

• Silver Tide: healing value is now scaling with character's level: 10 -> 6 + 2 * CL.
• Moon Blessed (new racial during the night has a 10% chance to completely avoid an incoming attack.

  - Fire Godlike: 

• Ashen Skin: AR bonus vs burn damage increased from +2 -> +3.
• Battle Forged: retaliation attack now has Fire keyword.
• Battle Forged: retaliation damage has now better scaling {2..4} + 5% per PL -> {2..4} + 50% per PL.
• Battle Forged: base penetration increased from 7 + 0.25 per PL -> 7 + 0.50 per PL.

  - Nature Godlike:

• Nature Sense (new racial has +5 perception bonus while stealthed, invisible or are out of combat.

[Elric Galad]

19 minutes ago, dunehunter said:

@Elric Galad MaxQuest had an old mod about races balance before the CP, I wonder why he didn't integrate it into CP? Here is the link if u don't know it yet https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/274?tab=description

And here's the quote of changes:

Version 1.0.0: 
Includes changes to playable godlike races:
  - Moon Godlike: 

• Silver Tide: healing value is now scaling with character's level: 10 -> 6 + 2 * CL.
• Moon Blessed (new racial during the night has a 10% chance to completely avoid an incoming attack.

  - Fire Godlike: 

• Ashen Skin: AR bonus vs burn damage increased from +2 -> +3.
• Battle Forged: retaliation attack now has Fire keyword.
• Battle Forged: retaliation damage has now better scaling {2..4} + 5% per PL -> {2..4} + 50% per PL.
• Battle Forged: base penetration increased from 7 + 0.25 per PL -> 7 + 0.50 per PL.

  - Nature Godlike:

• Nature Sense (new racial has +5 perception bonus while stealthed, invisible or are out of combat.

This is somewhat close from 1.2 version of my mod. I think his version of Moon godlike silver tide might be a tad strong.

I wondered if Nature godlike needed another passive too but I eventually did nothing.

[Kaylon]

The fire shield stays if you switch from Magran's Favor?

[Waski]

11 minutes ago, Kaylon said:

The fire shield stays if you switch from Magran's Favor?

No

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, Waski said:

No

"Sad Black Jacket noise"

[hansvedic]

Interesting stuff.

Quick question: Does the "Righteous Bash" chance to interrupt work with the retaliation effect of Magran's Blessing or only with regular attacks with it?

[dunehunter]

So in general, crit from offhand will trigger swift furry from mainhand?