Politics XXXV (Life in the Vault is about to change)

[Orogun01]

I don't know if people are being contrarian or they really want China to be the only World Superpower. For all its faults the US still has a Constitution that guarantees individual rights, way better than whatever China has.

[Malcador]

5 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Ah, thats what the mewling is about, we're the biggest teat. How typical.

And still owe ~$180MM

[Gfted1]

Seems like we're always the biggest contributor to these various international clubs. What is the dues based on, GDP or something?

[Elerond]

3 minutes ago, Malcador said:

And still owe ~$180MM

They owe membership fees for 99 million as they have not paid for couple years now. USA has only given WHO money to projects in which WHO buys things from USA.

https://www.who.int/about/finances-accountability/funding/account_statement/2020/usa_en_2020.pdf

 

[Malcador]

https://undocs.org/en/a/res/70/245

At least for UN seems based on gross income, debt load, caps off at 22% of the UN budget.   WHO has voluntary payments as well.

 

 

[Elerond]

1 minute ago, Malcador said:

https://undocs.org/en/a/res/70/245

At least for UN seems based on gross income, debt load, caps off at 22% of the UN budget.   WHO has voluntary payments as well.

 

 

USA contributes to lots of specific research projects organized by WHO, but that money doesn't really go WHO, but different medical and pharmaceutical companies that need to do world wide test for their drugs and devices. 

[Orogun01]

8 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Seems like we're always the biggest contributor to these various international clubs. What is the dues based on, GDP or something?

Well, if  NATO is anything to go by; whomever is the biggest chump.

[Zoraptor]

Trouble is, some in the US would withdraw from NATO because others aren't pulling their weight, then wonder why Europe doesn't pay any attention to them and won't support them any more and rail about how US influence has dropped without drawing any connection between the two.

And the US can always unilaterally reduce military spending, if she wants to.

8 minutes ago, Orogun01 said:

I don't know if people are being contrarian or they really want China to be the only World Superpower. For all its faults the US still has a Constitution that guarantees individual rights, way better than whatever China has.

Nobody wants China to be the sole superpower, that's a false dichotomy. It is a potential result of Trump continually taking enormous dumps on former friends and international institutions for naked domestic political purposes though.

If people end up actually taking China's side against the US what does that say about the diplomatic abilities of the US? These things don't happen in a vacuum, they happen as a consequence to deliberate US policies. Trump and Pompeo have asterisked off literally everyone who isn't Bibi Netanyahu, many multiple times on multiple issues. The ongoing collapse of US soft power is an inevitable consequence of that. It may play well to elements of the US domestically, but all the extortion, amnerican exceptionalism and unilateralism doesn't play well with anyone outside the US.

[Malcador]

11 minutes ago, Orogun01 said:

Well, if  NATO is anything to go by; whomever is the biggest chump.

Well, they are the leading member of the alliance, for direct spending they put in 22% of a pretty small budget.  The complaints about defense spending in general seems like something to drum up purchasers for arms companies more than anything.

[Orogun01]

40 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Trouble is, some in the US would withdraw from NATO because others aren't pulling their weight, then wonder why Europe doesn't pay any attention to them and won't support them any more and rail about how US influence has dropped without drawing any connection between the two.

And the US can always unilaterally reduce military spending, if she wants to.

Nobody wants China to be the sole superpower, that's a false dichotomy. It is a potential result of Trump continually taking enormous dumps on former friends and international institutions for naked domestic political purposes though.

If people end up actually taking China's side against the US what does that say about the diplomatic abilities of the US? These things don't happen in a vacuum, they happen as a consequence to deliberate US policies. Trump and Pompeo have asterisked off literally everyone who isn't Bibi Netanyahu, many multiple times on multiple issues. The ongoing collapse of US soft power is an inevitable consequence of that. It may play well to elements of the US domestically, but all the extortion, amnerican exceptionalism and unilateralism doesn't play well with anyone outside the US.

That would be true if our allies didn't do things like rely on Huawei for their 5G and if they hadn't taken the US for granted whilst pretending to be antiwar for their own political ends. NATO was made to resist the USSR, if the West fails to realize that we are in a cold war against the CCP as they have for the last few years then China will end up winning. Rather than let a careless ally put USA in a bad position it might be better to cut ties and become mostly self sufficient while forging new alliances and strengthening those that have strategic interests that align with us.

[Elerond]

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/493044-trump-threatens-to-adjourn-both-chambers-of-congress

"President Trump on Wednesday threatened to use his executive power to force both chambers of Congress to adjourn if the Senate did not confirm his nominees for vacancies across the administration."

Congressional oversight but only if president agrees 

[Zoraptor]

Because I forgot to mention it previous, the WHO definitely did make one major mistake that should not have been made- opposing travel bans up to at least early February. On that, Trump definitely has a point, and also a point against most Democrats. In hindsight travel bans were the bare minimum that should have happened, and the WHO recommended against them despite acknowledging a month earlier there was human to human transmission.

2 hours ago, Orogun01 said:

That would be true if our allies didn't do things like rely on Huawei for their 5G and if they hadn't taken the US for granted whilst pretending to be antiwar for their own political ends. NATO was made to resist the USSR, if the West fails to realize that we are in a cold war against the CCP as they have for the last few years then China will end up winning. Rather than let a careless ally put USA in a bad position it might be better to cut ties and become mostly self sufficient while forging new alliances and strengthening those that have strategic interests that align with us.

The troubles with that are that the US still hasn't provided any evidence, let alone proof, for their accusations against Huawei. As such, it's being treated by everyone else as being part of Trump's trade war with China- and since he's simultaneously fighting or threatening to fight trade wars with just about everyone else there's no goodwill or benefit of the doubt. Instead, you have Europe wondering if Trump will decide that Airbus or BMW should be the next target after Huawei and China and not wanting to encourage him. Huawei is the typical Chinese loss-leader-to-drive-others-out-of-business (then jack up prices and drop down quality) model of Chinese company, but that isn't the same as it spying.

There would be few people (maybe just Sarex) on this forum who'd be happier than I to see NATO fold. But NATO is irrelevant as a counter to China anyway, as it is explicitly a greater North Atlantic 'defensive' pact with its members literally half a world away from China. I tend to agree that the US should pull out of it or reduce commitments to it because I think NATO has long outlived its supposed purpose- but if that happens it will massively reduce US influence, and that has to be accepted as an obvious consequence beforehand. If you want quid pro quo for being in NATO and the largest contributor you got the return in soft power. If Obama claimed Huawei was spyware he'd be taken more seriously than Trump because Obama didn't spend his term(s) deliberately setting diplomatic fires everywhere. A leadership that everyone dislikes has a lot more difficulty getting its way than one that people want to believe is acting in their interests.

The anti China treaties are with the likes of Japan, ROK, Philippines, Australia; ie greater Pacific countries. Trouble being that Trump has managed to have problems with every single country on that list too, except Australia. So much so that the Philippines- hardly friendly with China- kicked the US out wholesale a few months ago. Any China containment strategy also requires at least the tacit support of both India and Russia (who can being along ex soviet 'stans) to be effective.

[Bartimaeus]

2 hours ago, Elerond said:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/493044-trump-threatens-to-adjourn-both-chambers-of-congress

"President Trump on Wednesday threatened to use his executive power to force both chambers of Congress to adjourn if the Senate did not confirm his nominees for vacancies across the administration."

Congressional oversight but only if president agrees 

Sacred laws, institutions, and traditions that "guarantee" that we'll always be some semblance of a "stable democracy" only function so long as people are willing to uphold them, and Congress as a whole has been utterly abdicating its responsibilities and duties to the executive for many, many years now.

[ktchong]

6 hours ago, Elerond said:

"President Trump on Wednesday threatened to use his executive power to force both chambers of Congress to adjourn if the Senate did not confirm his nominees for vacancies across the administration."

Congressional oversight but only if president agrees 

 

Let's worry about it if and when Trump actually does it.  By now people should have realized he is just an attention whore who likes to say ****s to get negative attention but he rarely follows through on his words.

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, Orogun01 said:

I don't know if people are being contrarian or they really want China to be the only World Superpower. For all its faults the US still has a Constitution that guarantees individual rights, way better than whatever China has.

Why would anyone want China to be the worlds only superpower? This virus has revealed many things to us....key amongst them is how far China is from ever being the worlds most influential and effective superpower 

[BruceVC]

9 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Why would anyone want China to be the worlds only superpower? This virus has revealed many things to us....key amongst them is how far China is from ever being the worlds most influential and effective superpower 

For example China was telling the W.H.O and the world in early January there was no evidence the virus could transfer from human to human...yeah great world superpower China 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/who-haunted-by-january-tweet-saying-china-found-no-human-transmission-of-coronavirus/ar-BB11nU34

https://dailycaller.com/2020/03/18/flashback-who-china-coronavirus-contagious/

[Guard Dog]

13 hours ago, Gromnir said:

again, "knowing" doesn't mean you ain't actual bought chinese. buy made in usa products does not mean such purchases is absent china contributions 'bout which you is unaware. made in rochester or san jose does not preclude possibility (likely) more than one component or part required a chinese contribution. 

gd hasn't used a nail in last five years? even if the nail were made in usa, is a good chance were chines steel involved. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps sunpower

Now that is a shame about Sun Power. 

You are right of course. Complex products are a sum of components whose origin is impossible to know. The only power tools for example that I know are manufactured in the US are Porter Cable and it's a safe bet at least some of the components are Chinese. What can you do? But it IS not difficult to choose not to buy finished products from China. And it is not difficult to find alternatives.

Whatever you might think of the wisdom of such an idea, it is a choice everyone can make. And it is a choice that, if enough people make it, can hurt China. It's like deciding to not drink Coca Cola. They will probably be fine and YOU might be better off. At the very least your teeth will be. But enough people see the example and follow it CC is hurt in the long run. After all how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. 

Individual actions are all that is left to us in the end. They are not significant in and of themselves unless you can persuade others to join you. But before you can persuade them to do a thing you have to inform them of the course of action. That is what discussion like that are for.  I voted for Gary Johnson. That did not make him President. But it did lead to interesting discussion that, just maybe, made some folks see a different perspective. Plus I was OK with the guy in the mirror after making that choice and that is important to me. 

It's logical and maybe even wise to look up at an insurmountable mountain and flatly state "it cannot be climbed". But if you move from hand hold to foot hold to hand hold to foot hold you might even reach the summit. Or not. Sometimes the climb is all there is. 

[Guard Dog]

19 hours ago, Malcador said:

Why though ? The idea of the WHO is a good one, no ? 

Huh, the US in arrears with its payments as well.  I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise.

Ad here is another reason the WHO is a pile of steaming male bovine feces. In the article I posted on the start of the CPBL season they pointed out that the WHO has excluded Taiwan from it's "services" at the insistence of China. F--k the WHO. Not another dollar... ever!

[Elerond]

5 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Ad here is another reason the WHO is a pile of steaming male bovine feces. In the article I posted on the start of the CPBL season they pointed out that the WHO has excluded Taiwan from it's "services" at the insistence of China. F--k the WHO. Not another dollar... ever!

WHO can't give Taiwan membership outside linked membership through China until UN recognizes Taiwan and UN can't do that until its members like USA recognizes Taiwan as independent entity.

[Guard Dog]

It seems to me the best form of government is repressive authoritarian. The more human rights abuses the better. Slavery? Good. Mass murder? Better! The world will just fall all over themselves to kiss your ass and make you happy. But Republican or Parliamentary Democracy?  Not only will the world hate you but they will pitch a fit when you stop funding the lipstick they buy to properly kiss the tyrants asses. 

Past time this BS stopped. But it won't. 

[213374U]

Doesn't seem to work so well for Kim's Land. The amount of ass-kissers, lickspittles and assorted brown-nosers seems rather tied to economic power. In spite of Trump's seemingly dogged efforts to alienate allies and partners, the US still has its fair share, and that isn't likely to change soon. Money talks, bull**** Constitutional checks and balances walks.

Edited April 16, 2020 by 213374U

[Malcador]

4 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

It seems to me the best form of government is repressive authoritarian. The more human rights abuses the better. Slavery? Good. Mass murder? Better! The world will just fall all over themselves to kiss your ass and make you happy. But Republican or Parliamentary Democracy?  Not only will the world hate you but they will pitch a fit when you stop funding the lipstick they buy to properly kiss the tyrants asses. 

Past time this BS stopped. But it won't. 

Rosy view of the US you have, people don't hate America because of The Freedom.  But people ignore it as the US has money.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Malcador

[HoonDing]

China could invade Taiwan tomorrow and nobody would lift a finger to help.

[Malcador]

2 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

China could invade Taiwan tomorrow and nobody would lift a finger to help.

Dulce et decorum est, pro TMSC mori

[Volourn]

"The troubles with that are that the US still hasn't provided any evidence, let alone proof, for their accusations against Huawei. "

 

China is the evidence. China controls all aspects of Chinese life including business. It is a Chinese company so you should not be entrusting it with sensitive things. one thing to get cheap China labour for random toy parts 9which can actually be dangerous) but sensitive computer stuff in the computer age? Risk is too high, imo. But, I get it. That's 'racist' to point out China's basic dicttaorship where they control everything. Just ask any success businessman in China who sucks up to the dictatorship one day and is doing great and the next criticizes them and magically somehow they are deemed 'worst criminal ever'. LMAO

 

China and Russia are two peas of the same pod. Untrustworthy dictatorships that are given mostly a free pass because of their size. One is white one isn't. Wgich one gets bashed more in the West? LMAO

To me, the West is racist because it tend to work on the basic of low expectations because Europe especially feels it is superior to all others despite both world wars originating there.