Contemplative Xoti

[MortyTheGobbo]

Yep, it's me again, once more wondering how to specialize a companion. I decided to make Xoti a Monk/Priest in this playthrough, and she's doing okay, but it feels like something is missing. Mostly I have her cast buffs and fight, but that kind of leaves her as doing the same thing as she did as a pure priest, but worse. She doesn't really do a lot of damage in melee. She's using her sickle and lantern; maybe a better weapon choice would help.

[Boeroer]

Like... dual mortars?

[MortyTheGobbo]

For some reason I'm unable to put my finger on, I feel unenthusiastic about dual mortal strategies. So I'd rather not.

[thelee]

a few thoughts:

6 hours ago, MortyTheGobbo said:

She's using her sickle and lantern; maybe a better weapon choice would help.

i had a similar experience in one of my first run or so. the sickle is a trap. it's decent, but not on a monk. use fists instead, at least until you get (if you bother going this route) the upgrade that lets you use melee weapons at range. i think sickle/lantern is a better choice for xoti as pure priest; but even then i would ditch the sickle and give it to someone else more martial-y, and if i need damage diversity i'd pick up spiritual weapon instead, which gives you a sickle that autoscales and has a lash (but no companion-related upgrade).

6 hours ago, MortyTheGobbo said:

Mostly I have her cast buffs and fight, but that kind of leaves her as doing the same thing as she did as a pure priest, but worse.

multiclassing with a caster (especially a support class like priest) really requires you to find the synergies. otherwise you'll run into a feeling like what you're feeling, where you just feel worse at being a monk and worse at being a priest instead of something that is more than the sum of its parts. On PotD especially, putting a priest that close to the front line and in a position where they need to take damage to power the monk half is going to make you feel *real* fragile and feel like you're running into action economies a lot.

some basic ideas:

• ditch fists altogether for a while and use a reach weapon (quarterstaff or pike) for safety. then use dance of death. dance of death will give you huge accuracy bonuses that also applies to spellcasting. priest part will rely more on debuffing (which requires accuracy rolls) instead of buffing. use xoti bonus spell blessed harvest to help get finishing blows to gain wounds for free which the bonus accuracy will help with; the bonus accuracy will help with xoti's other unique spells (vile thorns, wicked briars)
• mid-game pick up duality of mortal presence and switch it to the intellect version. getting up to +10 intellect makes you real good at casting spells. (won't stack with prayer/litany for the spirit so don't bother)
• pick up priest spells that really help the monk side in particular; dire blessing will really help you land efficient anguish. salvation of time you could use on blade turning a couple times to face-tank huge mobs; run in and out a few times to force disengagement attacks that get bounced. (be warned that devotions of the faithful won't stack with dance with death)

unfortunately, xoti's contemplative isn't really a top-tier contemplative you can put together, but i've gotten good mileage out of her on PotD + challenges so she's viable. 

 

[thelee]

Just to add; Xoti's monk subclass is a little underpowered and really relies on you landing killing blows to do well (especially while using the lantern). The sickle just does so much less damage than normal monk fists and not dual-wielding fists reduces your attack speed so much that you start creating a negative feedback loop. Add-on additional action economy from casting buffs and you'll find a xoti contemplative a *really* mediocre monk experience. Hence ditch the sickle at the very least, and be more judicious about spellcasting.

Regenerating mortification via the lantern is such a good effect that I'm partial to not ditching it, but if you can't reliably land killing blows you're better off ditching the lantern as well.

Edited December 15, 2019 by thelee

[Boeroer]

I had nice results with a Morning Star on Xoti Contemplative as well. Body Blows lowers Fortitude by 25 which is a huge debuff that early in the game. And it helps to land Blessed Harvest a LOT which tends to miss often otherwise. That can be frustrating. Once you get Stunning Blows and Enervating Blows it only gets better (or lower: now -25 & -20 fortitude on top). Also Force of Anguish + Body Blows and friends is just awesome. You can keep most annoying enemies away from you that way. Aaand Morning Star was a preferred weapon of Eothas in PoE, too (besides flails) - so that kind of fits as well.

If you choose Willbreaker then it also helps to land Divine Mark and other will spells.

Fists are good, too.

I honestly gave up on her monk subclass and ignored the wound-on-kill mechanic - which is awful. It's only nice a SC Monk when going full on Whispers of the Wind. Kills with Resonant Touch don't count. It doesn't even work with ranged weapons - only melee weapon kills -which totally is an insult to my best buddies: Hand Mortar & Fire in the Hole.  Also not with Blessed Harvest which is a bit of a bummer and not optimal design (theme-wise and mechanical).

But seriously: trying to melee-kill-steal with Xoti in order to get 1 or 2 (with that lantern-kill the restrictions of melee are not there I think) more wounds is absolutely not worth the hassle if you can instead just use a decent weapon or fists and use Enduring Dance and Hylea's Talons to give you a steady stream of wounds.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Boeroer

[Ascaloth]

I actually have a particular build with Xoti that optimised her subclasses' traits to the fullest, and has worked pretty well for me all things considering. Never really got around to writing it out, but since I recently picked this game back up to complete the DLCs I haven't gotten around to previously... give me a week or so, and I'll have a build thread up.

[MortyTheGobbo]

I've already given Willbreaker to Konstanten and he's doing well with it, so I guess Xoti will stick to fists. Maybe a quarterstaff. Or maybe fist + lantern? Or a flail, that's also Eothas' weapon.

[thelee]

14 hours ago, MortyTheGobbo said:

Maybe a quarterstaff. Or maybe fist + lantern? Or a flail,

There's a good quarterstaff very late game (in forgotten sanctum) for caster/martial types - gives you 15% hit to crit buff every time you cast a spell, and gives you concentration everytime you crit. Something to consider. (Though honestly Street Sweeper--another quarterstaff--is one of the best weapons in the game IMO)

If you're going to use a lantern, you should definitely stick to fists. While I agree in part with Boeroer's assessment in that you shouldn't over-index on just trying to land killing blows all the time, if you give up on it altogether Xoti is just a super underpowered monk. (The lantern's on-kill effect does work on non-melee attacks; it took me a while to realize that Blessed Harvest was the reason why I kept finding myself with spare Mortification.) If you're using the lantern, the only real way to make up for such a DPS deficit is to use fists (at least until you get some very good superb/legendary items with powerful damage buffs; multiclass monk fists while very good don't scale up as well as single class). If you don't care about using the lantern specifically but still want to use a small shield, I would use tuolito's palm, which gets buffed from the monk fists, and you can pair that with a non-fist weapon like a decent flail.

Edited December 16, 2019 by thelee

[Enoch]

14 hours ago, MortyTheGobbo said:

Or a flail, that's also Eothas' weapon.

Sun and Moon is lovely if you buy into the Monk's Crit-seeking abilities (Swift Flurry, Enervating Blows, Stunning Surge, and Heartbeat Drumming).  Because every attack gets you 2 attack rolls, you'll generate crits at a faster rate than other melee weapons do.  And you buy it at Legendary enchantment, which saves on long-term costs and lets you get it ahead of the leveling curve.  A Priest can also make use of its bonus to Fire PL in the daytime. 

[Gromnir]

On 12/14/2019 at 9:17 AM, MortyTheGobbo said:

Yep, it's me again, once more wondering how to specialize a companion. I decided to make Xoti a Monk/Priest in this playthrough, and she's doing okay, but it feels like something is missing. Mostly I have her cast buffs and fight, but that kind of leaves her as doing the same thing as she did as a pure priest, but worse. She doesn't really do a lot of damage in melee. She's using her sickle and lantern; maybe a better weapon choice would help.

why not make her more tanky? w/o any discussion o' weapon choices, xoti will have plenty o' damage potential with priest spells though chances are you get stuck in the buff & heal cycle into which most folks fall. make certain you got another, better healer than xoti in the party and then let the priestess o' gaun rain down pillars o' fire and whatnot. we tend to use xoti as an off-tank when leveling her as a pure priest, but she is actual better in the role when working as a contemplative-- gets multiple interrupt options from the monk ability tree and numerous defensive powers which will make her nigh invulnerable.  only annoying aspect o' building xoti as a reliable interrupter off-tank is obsidian went ahead and made most end-game bosses immune to interrupts. 

marux amanth is a nice priestly dagger alternative to the sickle or fists and is a heck o' a boss fight weapon as it functional ends such battles when you has brought health o' such foes down to 25%... is an anti-climactic weapon and its use is a bit like killing bg2 dragons with a chromatic orb. the dagger is not capable o' legendary, but it is inherent accurate and you will be getting 10% to double offensive spells, so don't hesitate to cast offensive spells as many deadfire priests are wont to do.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Boeroer]

@thelee: thanks for the heads-up on the lantern and its wound-on-kill mechanic. That it doesn't need melee weapons is good. Does it only work with weapons though or will it also work with any type of killing blow (like Blessed Harvest etc.)?

But still I wonder: why did Obsidian restrict the subclass mechanic to melee only? It's already bad (+1 Wound const is a harsh penalty, especially for cheap abilities like Efficient Anguish etc. - which more than balances out the +3 Wound on kill).  Resonant Touch, Rooting Pain, Long Pain, Inner Death (not a weapon attack) - maybe even the AoE of Torment's Reach - won't trigger it. This is a bad decision. 

Edit: just checked: Inner Death does trigger the wound refill. It is considered a melee attack but not a melee weapon attack. The restirction seems to be that it has to be a melee attack but not necessarily a melee weapon attack. 
Also the lantern works with every kill (no matter what caused it). So it works fairly well with spells like Blessed Harvest and Pillars of Holy Fire etc. because you can get back Mortification and Wounds (+1/+1) that way. The two +2 PL bonuses are also nice obviously.

Edit2: just dabbled around with Xoti as SC Monk and Contemplative a bit. Grave Calling's Chilling Grave (Chillfog) will trigger the wound gain. So if you kill enemies with a Chillfog you will get +3 Wounds from subclass and +1 from Lantern. Since the Chillfog profits from all weapon dmg bonuses (and Monk's lashes) it's a very strong combo. You only need vessels...

Morning Star is still my preferred method even if I lose the Lantern. Also because it's very easy to trigger Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming once you use Enervating Blows + Stunning Surge + Body Blows and then do Efficient Anguish. You'll lose the lantern refill but do a lot more killshots because of chained additional attacks. 

Have tried Sun&Moon but it's not as good in my opinion. 

One thing though: Blessed Harvest seems to be broken somehow. My tooltip says I can do 160 dmg with it (base + PL + MIG). But when I crit with it (easy since the fortitude is so low) I get very low numbers like 45 or 70 slash damage (no PEN issue). Also the combat log gives me no dmg calculation, the window is empty...?

 

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by Boeroer

[JackalTornMoons]

Tangentially related, but Xoti is better in the turn based mode because Mortification of the Soul is a free action and essentially negate the penalty of her sub class.

[thelee]

9 hours ago, Boeroer said:

One thing though: Blessed Harvest seems to be broken somehow. My tooltip says I can do 160 dmg with it (base + PL + MIG). But when I crit with it (easy since the fortitude is so low) I get very low numbers like 45 or 70 slash damage (no PEN issue). Also the combat log gives me no dmg calculation, the window is empty...?

odd. yeah, there's no damage calculation, you have to hover over the "hit" effect and it tells you how much damage done with no context (kind of like how carnage works in the combat log). Even on a graze I remember getting very high numbers though (even triple digits i feel like). Maybe something weird happens on crits? Or something else? Maybe it's based in part on enemy health, like finishing blow? How does one decompile/look at the game code?

Edited December 16, 2019 by thelee

[Ascaloth]

Now, I don't know how you guys are using Xoti, but personally I always run her with The Twin Eels greatsword, and set her AI to behave like a killstealer. Every time she killsteals, she gains 4 wounds plus heals a tonne of health plus gets 4 rolls at proccing Rooting Pain, all at once. What's not to like?

Everything else about my personal build for her is designed to make her better at killstealing, and to make her party tougher just by existing. She can be such a valuable party member if you know how to build her, guys.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Ascaloth

[thelee]

2 minutes ago, Ascaloth said:

Now, I don't know how you guys are using Xoti, but personally I always run her with The Twin Eels greatsword, and set her AI to behave like a killstealer. Every time she killsteals, she gains 4 wounds plus heals a tonne of health plus gets 4 rolls at proccing Rooting Pain, all at once. What's not to like?

Everything else about my personal build for her is designed to make her better at killstealing, and to make her party tougher just by existing. She can be such a valuable party member if you know how to build her, guys.

as contemplative or pure monk though?

[Ascaloth]

11 minutes ago, thelee said:

as contemplative or pure monk though?

As a Contemplative. I don't have to make her a pure Monk, because using Twin Eels means she's not using monk fists anyway... oh right, I gave her St Omaku's Mercy as her second weapon too, for the Sacred Sacrifice enchant.

The other core piece of my build for Xoti is Furrante's Breastplate, with the Take The Hit enchant. That's the piece that helps her make the rest of the party that much more survivable, at the cost of self-damage... which fuels her Wound generation. Win-win all around.

[Boeroer]

21 minutes ago, Ascaloth said:

Now, I don't know how you guys are using Xoti, but personally I always run her with The Twin Eels greatsword, and set her AI to behave like a killstealer. Every time she killsteals, she gains 4 wounds plus heals a tonne of health plus gets 4 rolls at proccing Rooting Pain, all at once. What's not to like?

Everything else about my personal build for her is designed to make her better at killstealing, and to make her party tougher just by existing. She can be such a valuable party member if you know how to build her, guys.

How does she get 4 wounds when killing with Twin Eels? The passive gives her +3 on kill and you can't use the Lantern with a Great Sword...?

Besides that: why Twin Eels in the first place? Because of the AoE heal on kill? Wouldn't Engoliero or Oathbreaker's End be better on-kill effects?

I wonder if Magistrate's Cudgel wouldn't be  good with Xoti since it's bindable to Monk and kills lower level kith on crit right away. 

Also Death Sentence on Saru Sichr seems to be a fitting thing. Doesn't trigger too often though...

Edited December 16, 2019 by Boeroer

[Ascaloth]

Just now, Boeroer said:

How does she get 4 wounds when killing with Twin Eels? The passive gives her +3 on kill and you can't use the Lantern with a Great Sword...?

Besides that: why Twin Eels in the first place? Because of the AoE heal on kill? Wouldn't Engoliero or Oathbreaker's End be better on-kill effects?

Oh, it's 3 wounds? For some reason I thought it was 4, maybe something's changed in the patches since I left off at BoW...

Yes, Twin Eels because of the AoE heal on kill; with maxxed Religion it's a massive burst of health, about more than 150 for her and every other party member nearby. My Xoti build is not really DPS; she's more of a melee support and killstealer for fun and profit. I set her AI so that she always beelines for the Near Death enemy with the lowest Health.

[Boeroer]

Oh, I didn't realize that the healing scaled so well with Religion, given that it only starts at 10. That's cool then.

You are right by the way: Rooting Pain is quite nice on Xoti IF you can manage to kill often (also when you combine it with Endurung Dance and Hylea's Talons or Furrante's Breastplate or Voidwheel or even Keeper of the Flame - although KotF will remove Endurnig Dance and also give you Resonant Touches if you are an SC Monk).

Edited December 16, 2019 by Boeroer

[thelee]

14 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

You are right by the way: Rooting Pain is quite nice on Xoti IF you can manage to kill often

yeah silly me i never thought of that interaction, that's a fun little synergy.

[MortyTheGobbo]

Hmm, interesting. I like the Sun and Moon idea, because I haven't really used flails before. But I'm also intrigued by the Twin Eels option. The former would cost a lot of copper, but it's not like that's a problem in this game, and the latter would need me to go to the BoW area, but I'm the right level for it now. Or I could switch between fist and Marux Amanth, as Gromnir suggested.

I did notice the caster/martial quarterstaff, but I'd need to go to the Forgotten Sanctum for it. I don't like the DLC/endgame weapons for this reason - by the time you get it, you won't be able to actually use it for much longer.

Edited December 16, 2019 by MortyTheGobbo

[Ascaloth]

@Boeroer Okay, so I fired the game up again, and I have to clarify; the 150 Health healing was a figure I somehow pulled out of my ass for I dunno what reason.

The Twin Eels' AoE heal with max Religion is actually somewhere around 50-60 Health per kill... which, when applied to every party member in range, is still fairly substantial burst healing.

[Boeroer]

Ok, lower but still in the "decent" category.

[Madhofd]

On 12/15/2019 at 8:23 AM, Boeroer said:

It doesn't even work with ranged weapons - only melee weapon kills -which totally is an insult to my best buddies: Hand Mortar & Fire in the Hole. 

Hi, what's so great about these blunderbusses? I'm thinking of making a Scout Streetfighter with blunderbusses modal on. But these weapons don't seem that great to me. Maybe I'm missing something...