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Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Owlcat Games' next isometric Pathfinder RPG


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10 hours ago, Chilloutman said:

I thought 5e rules in BG3 were pretty close to paper ones? 

There are many major and minor changes/additions/mechanics missings. A lot of changes to monsters and a lot of homebrew stuff imported over from D:OS2. 

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1 minute ago, Wormerine said:

There are many major and minor changes/additions/mechanics missings. A lot of changes to monsters and a lot of homebrew stuff imported over from D:OS2. 

got any example?

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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16 hours ago, ShadySands said:

So...

Best game ever or best game all-time? 

Not even close to either, I'd wager.

Hey, does any one of you have an idea about the reasons for this recent move from RtwP to turn-based? Is the whole thing based on the success of D:OS2, or is there something else behind it, too? I'm really curious, because in my view, turn-based combat is a mightily poor idea(*) in CRPGs like these. But clearly there's a demand for it, since they added the option to Deadfire after its release...

 

Heck, it's such a poor idea that that alone keeps me away BG3, as it's turn-based only.

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9 hours ago, Gromnir said:

am thinking that when chapter four became available via the beta, more than a few diehard owlcat fans were surprised at the instability. we haven't even seen chapter five and six, but the most recent build, which added content, resulted in another step back in stability.  the current state o' the beta, with the release date quick approaching, has managed to make even a few o' the more vocal message board defenders o' owlcat question whether a september release is wise. 

keep in mind, when the beta were first available, we were optimistic 'bout the game release and we were pleasant surprised by how stable the game played, and this from a crpg fan who were extreme critical o' kingmaker. however, much has changed since february, and owlcat's efforts to improve ain't as enjoyable as a springsteen tune

recognize how kingmaker is a buggy mess even today is also not encouraging. 

expectations should be tempered. we will be playing wotr in september 'cause for us is just a functional continuation o' the beta, but am recognizing many is gonna be less forgiving o' what is a work in progress with a whole lotta progress needing happen before the game is anything but a frustrating charlie fox experience for all but the most dedicated kingmaker fans.

HA! Good Fun!

I keep thinking about how poorly this update has aged:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/owlcatgames/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/posts/2759746

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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6 hours ago, Chilloutman said:

got any example?

I am not superwell versed in 5e so some of those might be off, but those that come to mind

Reactions - there is no reaction system as such, you don't get to choose to act during enemy turn if circumstances allow. Some stuff, like opportunity attack is a toogle and characters will attack at first opportunity, with first toggled reaction available. We are yet to see what they will do with stuff like paladin's smite, or counterspell, and at the moment to me it feels like reactions are barely in the game. Not something I minded at first, but after paying Solasta, it seems like BG3 is missing a chunky part of action economy.

Free advantage for highground (and till recently attacking from behind the enemy) - that's a powerful boost to chance-to-hit, making buff spells somewhat irrelevant. That's been changed for better in the last patch, as there is no longer free advantage for melee characters. I think rogues can still get it if they attack from behind from stealth.

In stealth there are view cones, that make it rather easy to be invisible as everyone can attack and hide on the same turn. Could be fixed with better AI (at the moment they will stand and do nothing, if there is no visible enemy)

quite a few main actions were made bonus actions - hide, push, drink/use potion, jump (though thank goodness since recent patch disengage is a speperate action that cost's main action)

Scrolls can be cast by anyone (is that Larian or 5e? Not sure).

Surfaces, special arrows and granades, (which create surfaces) explosives (welcome nerf to those in recent patch) moved over from D:OS2 - guaranteed sources of damage, that really mess with concentration mechanic - good luck maintaining concentration when 5 goblins throw guaranteed damage granades in your face.

You can throw stuff - never used it myself but I hear it is pretty broken (don't know if patch 5 fixed anything). Apparently, heavy items, like armors, do quite a bit of damage when thrown.

Treat it as second hand information, but I hear a lot of ACs were changed, and hitpoints increased for the sake of having less misses in combat. Before recent patch I would rarely miss - be it thanks to always having advantage or lowered AC - I don't know. Just recently someone raged on Larian's forum, because they changed Phase Spiders, from stealthy meele enemies, to ranged teleporting away enemies (ranged attacks of course level a puddle of poison). Intellect Devourer's are this game equivalent of "rats", though I am unfamiliar with TT version. I fought level 5 NPC with over 80 hitpoints, which was odd as my high constitution character had about half of that on level 4. I hear 80 is not a norm.

Lots of small things, like rogue's sneak attack being one per turn activable ability, rather then activating automatically with hit. etc. 

My impressions is that gameplay revolves a lot around surfaces, and high ground - generally winning or loosing encounter depends on whenever you or the enemy is on highground. Being elevated and pushing down enemies is by far the best strategy one can take. Enemies like to have ridiculus jump and throw distances to counteract being thrown down. Buffing became somewhat more useful to melee characters, but with how many surfaces and guaranteed sources of damage there are, it's difficult to maintain spells for any meaningful amount of time. 

Edited by Wormerine
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I get the reaction thing, but honestly from what you wrote it seems those are just things which they didn't implemented yet (especially reactions). I really don't mind that environment tactics carried over from D:OS2 - i think they are good addition - Its more like its missing from PnP E5 and usually its somehow homebrewed by DM on spot

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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33 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

Scrolls can be cast by anyone (is that Larian or 5e? Not sure).

You need to have a class capable of casting the spell in 5e.

 

Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken

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49 minutes ago, Chilloutman said:

I get the reaction thing, but honestly from what you wrote it seems those are just things which they didn't implemented yet (especially reactions).

We will see. Larian did state before that they don't believe that reactions as they are in PnP are suitable for a computer game. I believe they are working on an upgrade to the system - we will see if it will be a meaningful improvement. 

50 minutes ago, Chilloutman said:

I really don't mind that environment tactics carried over from D:OS2 - i think they are good addition - Its more like its missing from PnP E5 and usually its somehow homebrewed by DM on spot

I don't mind, as long as they don't detract from the game. They introduced many nerfs in recent patch - IMO it made the game far better. But they still have a long way to go. It might be just the case of balancing and experimenting. However, if entire DnD system is overshadowed by "stand on high ground" then we are having problems. Things are getting better, and there is no release in sight, so we will see where Larian will take it. 

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3 hours ago, Wormerine said:

I think rogues can still get it if they attack from behind from stealth.. 

For the record Flanking is a highly used homebrew rule that people say should've been included in the PnP game by default, though it's not for rogues only.

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1 hour ago, Oner said:

For the record Flanking is a highly used homebrew rule that people say should've been included in the PnP game by default, though it's not for rogues only.

I read that since last patch flanking (if enemy is engaged by someone else) will also allow for triggering sneak attack, most likely to overcompansate for removing easy access to advantage. Sounds good, though didn't had a chance to test it yet.

As a side note, I am not a DnD purist, mostly due to now knowing much about DnD. Most of the things I took offence too, were just things that IMO don't make for fun gameplay.

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19 hours ago, Wormerine said:

I read that since last patch flanking (if enemy is engaged by someone else) will also allow for triggering sneak attack, most likely to overcompansate for removing easy access to advantage. Sounds good, though didn't had a chance to test it yet.

As a side note, I am not a DnD purist, mostly due to now knowing much about DnD. Most of the things I took offence too, were just things that IMO don't make for fun gameplay.

Sneak attacks for ganging up are standard, since they don't make landing the actual hit any likelier.

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so I checked what companions awaits me and... i can stomach maybe 3 of them, so I hope they kept option to create your own team :)

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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3 hours ago, Chilloutman said:

so I checked what companions awaits me and... i can stomach maybe 3 of them, so I hope they kept option to create your own team :)

You mean class or personality? 'cause if personality, sometimes it's tricky to guess just from the picture and info blurb. I had quite a few companions that I was predisposed against  before playing then took them about and they turned to be awesome. :yes:

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4 hours ago, ShadySands said:

 

 

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"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

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6 hours ago, ShadySands said:

vid

am thinking this solid puts to rest the question o' whether or not owlcat is considering a delay of the release. sure, a delay appeared unlikely, but given the state o' the beta, such a move were warranted and even the hardcore owlcat fans at their boards were/are voicing concerns 'bout day 1 game stability.

*shrug*

had already resigned self to september being a continuation o' the beta, but am perhaps naïve in our hope that at least the first three chapters and crusade management will offer better than the current level o' stability... would also be nice if a few broken class features were addressed in the next few weeks. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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13 hours ago, bugarup said:

You mean class or personality? 'cause if personality, sometimes it's tricky to guess just from the picture and info blurb. I had quite a few companions that I was predisposed against  before playing then took them about and they turned to be awesome. :yes:

some companion in kingmaker have such painful build

most companion in wotr seems to have functional build

though only a few of them have decent strength score to contribute to carry weight

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19 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

some companion in kingmaker have such painful build

most companion in wotr seems to have functional build

though only a few of them have decent strength score to contribute to carry weight

lol. Melee weapons for everyone, eh?

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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On 8/10/2021 at 6:06 PM, Chilloutman said:

so I checked what companions awaits me and... i can stomach maybe 3 of them, so I hope they kept option to create your own team :)

Did you play P:K? I'm just curious because I'd like to know what you thought of the companions in that game.

I mean, every single one of them was an over-the-top bunch of cliches. Cheesy as can be. Amiri, the female barbarian was probably the worst (for me anyway), as the butch stuff was just... so poor. For me, every single companion in both in PoE and Deadfire was a lot more believable and easier to relate to than any companion in P:K. Tristian had a bit of an internal struggle going on, which was good, but Owlcat went way over the top with his naivety and the image of good-goodiness.

Anyway, I finished and enjoyed P:K, so that's there, too. 😀

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yeah I played P:K and I totally agree about that barbarian chick, that was something i booted out of the team asap. I kinda liked that elven mage lady, I liked that ranger guy. I think those are 2 only ones I remember that were decent to be around. I really disliked the rest.

Mind you I am also very racist against short races. I can't have shorties with giant heads running around my team

 

Edited by Chilloutman

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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4 hours ago, Chilloutman said:

Mind you I am also very racist against short races. I can't have shorties with giant heads running around my team

Aw, too bad. One of 'em bobbleheads was the bestest character out there.

Anyway, my favorite was Jubilost the gnome because we were in agreement about my barony and setting altogether (it sucked), and second favorite was Reg the orc because we were in agreement in what we wanted to do to the said world (burn).

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gnome and leshy have cutest art in pathfinder books

unable to romance linzi and jubilost still seems to be greatest mistake in kingmaker

now owlcat are repeating the same mistake in wotr with nenio

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