Politics Generations

[smjjames]

41 minutes ago, smjjames said:

From what that one congressman said, sounded like those at the briefing (or maybe just that one congressman) were a little confused too, I think.

Anyways, The Guardian has some info. Basically it's about, or at least in part, potential political retaliation against career officials over Ukraine.

And yes, that presser with the Finnish President was a clusterbleep all right.

Actually, edit to my previous post, apparently what they got was a 'packet of propoganda' according to some of the Dems. It also has more of what Rep. Raskin said as I didn't catch the whole thing earlier. Given what the WaPo link said about the guy being a 'straight shooter' and the given reason for the briefing, I find it hard to believe that he would allow his position to be used that way. So, I'm not sure what to think of it atm.

edit: and apparently just strange overall since it appears to basically been just handing over a bunch of papers without explaination.

Edited October 2, 2019 by smjjames

[Gorth]

6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Its simple, he is a white male not an extreme  left Democratic candidate and he can resonate with independent voters

There, fixed it for you. The guy is only a year younger than Sanders though, so just as likely to keel over from a heart attack before the final vote is counted.

 

Elizabeth Warren might surprise you. She's the bookmakers favourite too... at least at the time of writing. No, not going to post link to gambling sites, but lets just say Aussies give her 1.91 times money back, Biden 4.33 (and Sanders 11.0)

[ShadySands]

40 minutes ago, Gorth said:

There, fixed it for you. The guy is only a year younger than Sanders though, so just as likely to keel over from a heart attack before the final vote is counted.

 

Elizabeth Warren might surprise you. She's the bookmakers favourite too... at least at the time of writing. No, not going to post link to gambling sites, but lets just say Aussies give her 1.91 times money back, Biden 4.33 (and Sanders 11.0)

Bruce, if I remember correctly, likes more Clinton and Corporate-crats and those who will let the banks more or less do whatever they want

And Biden is probably the least likely current candidate that Sanders would back

Edited October 2, 2019 by ShadySands

[smjjames]

6 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Bruce, if I remember correctly, likes more Clinton and Corporate-crats and those who will let the banks more or less do whatever they want

And Biden is probably the least likely current candidate that Sanders would back

Bruce is also South African, not that he isn't entitiled to his own opinion.

Also, Bernie Sanders has said he'd back whoever wins the nomination 'because we need unity' (paraphrased). His supporters though, are another matter entirely.

[ShadySands]

I'm pretty sure they've all said that they'll back the eventual nominee but my point was that if Bernie were to drop out now I'd bet money against him backing Biden over Warren or even Gabbard for that matter

Edited October 2, 2019 by ShadySands
Darmok and Jalad and Tanagra to the tune of Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds

[Bartimaeus]

10 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

I'm pretty sure they've all said that they'll back the eventual nominee but my point was that if Bernie were to drop out now I'd bet money against him backing Biden over Warren or even Gabbard for that matter

I just hope that the majority of his base is sensible enough to realize Warren is the closest to him, and not Biden...if he drops out at all, that is.

[Hurlshort]

I've been actively avoiding most of the democrat front running convention, but I do have a sneaking feeling that Kamala Harris might be the most electable of the candidates. Let's face it, policy and track records have been out the window for awhile now. It is a straight up popularity contest, and neither Biden or Warren can fight the cult of personality that Trump has. Harris, on the other hand, is going to attract people based on race, gender, and then she has a decent amount of charm to get them to turn out to the polls. Just my gut instinct, but the party nomination is probably the hardest thing she has to win. I think she beats Trump.

[smjjames]

@Bartimaeus @ShadySands True, though it'd be more of a concern for the general. However, unless Biden somehow does something to alienate Sanders supporters, the Democrats are united enough against Trump that it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

5 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

I've been actively avoiding most of the democrat front running convention, but I do have a sneaking feeling that Kamala Harris might be the most electable of the candidates. Let's face it, policy and track records have been out the window for awhile now. It is a straight up popularity contest, and neither Biden or Warren can fight the cult of personality that Trump has. Harris, on the other hand, is going to attract people based on race, gender, and then she has a decent amount of charm to get them to turn out to the polls. Just my gut instinct, but the party nomination is probably the hardest thing she has to win. I think she beats Trump.

She's been kind of struggling in the polls though, so if she is the most electable, that message hasn't gotten out. She will make the November debate though, so, she probably just has to at minimum stay afloat and keep getting into the debates until voting actually starts.

Besides, anything could happen between now and Iowa, as the Ukraine stuff shows and Sanders health scare.

[ShadySands]

I think Harris is pretty much done for as well and I'm not sure if anyone else still in the running were to drop out that she's be the main beneficiary. Maybe if both Biden and Sanders dropped out then she'd pick up the majority of the black vote but that's a better advantage in the primary than it is in the general so we need to occur before the south starts voting

This doesn't really have anything to do with anything and isn't indicative of anything either but I think I've mentioned several times now that I recently had family come up from AZ to visit. Anyway, I was for sure they'd be for Biden or maybe Harris due to their demographics and me knowing them forever but it turns out that they and most in their circle thought Biden wasn't up to the task and didn't trust or care much for Harris. Wasn't what I expected from religious older black women.

[Zoraptor]

39 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

I've been actively avoiding most of the democrat front running convention, but I do have a sneaking feeling that Kamala Harris might be the most electable of the candidates. Let's face it, policy and track records have been out the window for awhile now. It is a straight up popularity contest, and neither Biden or Warren can fight the cult of personality that Trump has. Harris, on the other hand, is going to attract people based on race, gender, and then she has a decent amount of charm to get them to turn out to the polls. Just my gut instinct, but the party nomination is probably the hardest thing she has to win. I think she beats Trump.

Judging by the one Democratic debate I saw a decent amount of she's going to get absolutely crucified on her prosecutorial record. That may not be such a detriment when it comes to running against Trump, but she's going to have to deal with it a lot better to get anywhere near getting the D nomination first.

[smjjames]

20 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

I think Harris is pretty much done for as well and I'm not sure if anyone else still in the running were to drop out that she's be the main beneficiary. Maybe if both Biden and Sanders dropped out then she'd pick up the majority of the black vote but that's a better advantage in the primary than it is in the general so we need to occur before the south starts voting

This doesn't really have anything to do with anything and isn't indicative of anything either but I think I've mentioned several times now that I recently had family come up from AZ to visit. Anyway, I was for sure they'd be for Biden or maybe Harris due to their demographics and me knowing them forever but it turns out that they and most in their circle thought Biden wasn't up to the task and didn't trust or care much for Harris. Wasn't what I expected from religious older black women.

Well, if the DNC continues the pattern of two sets of debates having the same qualifying rules, she'll definitely make the December debate. I don't know how much more they might increase their requirements since any further restriction might start being seen as unfair, especially as it gets close to the Iowa caucases.

 

4 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Judging by the one Democratic debate I saw a decent amount of she's going to get absolutely crucified on her prosecutorial record. That may not be such a detriment when it comes to running against Trump, but she's going to have to deal with it a lot better to get anywhere near getting the D nomination first.

Yeah, theres lots of contradictions on her prosecutorial record vs what she is talking about as far as policy. I've also heard that she isn't doing great here in California either, her home state.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, Malcador said:

Cop got 10 years
 

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/courts/2019/10/02/jurors-hear-testimony-sentencing-phase-amber-guygers-murder-trial/

 

 

...aren't there people doing longer stints for weed? What a country.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, ShadySands said:

Bruce, if I remember correctly, likes more Clinton and Corporate-crats and those who will let the banks more or less do whatever they want

Well Bruce is the kid of a banker who lives a boujee lifestyle, so go figure.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

My city made the NYT. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/02/climate/hurricane-adaptation-houston.html

Where I grew up may be underwater in several decades, but Bill Koch got to build a replica of an old west town so I guess it's all worth it.

[BruceVC]

7 hours ago, ShadySands said:

Bruce, if I remember correctly, likes more Clinton and Corporate-crats and those who will let the banks more or less do whatever they want

And Biden is probably the least likely current candidate that Sanders would back

I dont believe in no regulation especially in the financial sector. I just dont believe in unreasonable regulation and also these populist objectives like " breaking up the investment banks" is unnecessary as the banks have  already  made major changes since 2008 in the financial sector around governance and allowing government oversight ...so we dont need to address something that is not a major issue anymore, lets focus on real problems   

[Gromnir]

8 hours ago, ShadySands said:

I think Harris is pretty much done for as well and I'm not sure if anyone else still in the running were to drop out that she's be the main beneficiary. Maybe if both Biden and Sanders dropped out then she'd pick up the majority of the black vote but that's a better advantage in the primary than it is in the general so we need to occur before the south starts voting

This doesn't really have anything to do with anything and isn't indicative of anything either but I think I've mentioned several times now that I recently had family come up from AZ to visit. Anyway, I was for sure they'd be for Biden or maybe Harris due to their demographics and me knowing them forever but it turns out that they and most in their circle thought Biden wasn't up to the task and didn't trust or care much for Harris. Wasn't what I expected from religious older black women.

we were talking 'bout juries earlier, so kinda a segue. 

has been explained to us that older women is notorious critical o' younger women. complete ignores ethnic. defendants and attorneys who is younger women, particular if the younger women is forceful, get extreme slim margin o' error from older women.  am suspecting the tendency o' older women to be hypercritical o' younger women is not limited to jurors. 

am personal not a fan o' harris so somewhat skews our judgment o' her electability. the way she went after biden on the busing issue were calculated and underhanded, particular as harris, when asked day after the debate, admitted she were not necessarily advocating federal forced busing either. 

that said, while am not a fan o' harris, we can see how she might appeal to independents. in a close election, particular given polarization which exists today, independents is the folks who nevertheless have potential to be swayed, and given their numbers, they would once again determine the winner o' the election. yeah, harris is gonna immediate be dismissed as viable by any 2nd amendment advocate, but as with much o' the country, independents is trending towards increased gun regulation... though 'course such trends only matters in battleground states. am suspecting harris' tough-on-crime record as a prosecutor is gonna play well with those conservative independents who is losing patience with trump but who might similar be unable to vote for bernie or warren.

but again, am not a fan o' harris. she has kinda adopted trump's style o' rhetoric which is heavy on making promises impossible to fulfill, promises which nevertheless resonate with the electorate. am not saying harris is as bad as trump, but am not wanting to see appeals to fear and ignorance becoming the winning strategy for Presidential candidates. call us provincial.

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

we were talking 'bout juries earlier, so kinda a segue. 

has been explained to us that older women is notorious critical o' younger women. complete ignores ethnic. defendants and attorneys who is younger women, particular if the younger women is forceful, get extreme slim margin o' error from older women.  am suspecting the tendency o' older women to be hypercritical o' younger women is not limited to jurors. 

am personal not a fan o' harris so somewhat skews our judgment o' her electability. the way she went after biden on the busing issue were calculated and underhanded, particular as harris, when asked day after the debate, admitted she were not necessarily advocating federal forced busing either. 

that said, while am not a fan o' harris, we can see how she might appeal to independents. in a close election, particular given polarization which exists today, independents is the folks who nevertheless have potential to be swayed, and given their numbers, they would once again determine the winner o' the election. yeah, harris is gonna immediate be dismissed as viable by any 2nd amendment advocate, but as with much o' the country, independents is trending towards increased gun regulation... though 'course such trends only matters in battleground states. am suspecting harris' tough-on-crime record as a prosecutor is gonna play well with those conservative independents who is losing patience with trump but who might similar be unable to vote for bernie or warren.

but again, am not a fan o' harris. she has kinda adopted trump's style o' rhetoric which is heavy on making promises impossible to fulfill, promises which nevertheless resonate with the electorate. am not saying harris is as bad as trump, but am not wanting to see appeals to fear and ignorance becoming the winning strategy for Presidential candidates. call us provincial.

HA! Good Fun!

Gromnir I havent read any previous posts you made about the question  I want to get your opinion on so I apologize if you have already answered this

But legally and based on historical precedent  do you think the Democrats  can impeach Trump around the Ukrainian phone call, the basic argument seems to be "  a US president cannot get other countries to interfere in the US election process in any way ".  So when Trump expected Ukraine to investigate Hunter Biden and then literally held back on aid to Ukraine this seems like a real impeachable offense because this would be used to undermine Joe Biden in 2020

But is this correct legally and what makes sense, in other words you could inadvertently strength Trump at the end if he is not found guilty like when Bill Clinton became more popular at the end of his impeachment 

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by BruceVC

[Guard Dog]

So Trump can be removed prior to the election and STILL be re-elected huh? Now wouldn't THAT be a lit torch in the hay barn! That would be funny as hell! 

 

Hey Bruce. Since you haven't been around lately FYI: I no longer have any political affiliations. I just want to see the whole thing burn.  And it's happening! 

[Malcador]

12 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I just want to see the whole thing burn.  And it's happening! 

Apathy is death

[Guard Dog]

12 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Apathy is death

Giving a s—t about what cannot be changed is frustrated death.  If the train is going over the cliff no matter what anyone does might as well enjoy the ride!

[Gfted1]

Nah, vote for a socialist and GET THE BAG.

[BruceVC]

22 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

So Trump can be removed prior to the election and STILL be re-elected huh? Now wouldn't THAT be a lit torch in the hay barn! That would be funny as hell! 

 

Hey Bruce. Since you haven't been around lately FYI: I no longer have any political affiliations. I just want to see the whole thing burn.  And it's happening! 

GD, you know I like to get your opinion on these matters 

When you say "burn "  I assume you mean metaphorically ? And if not what do you mean by that, for example the principle of any Democracy never fails. Democracies fail sometimes due to failure of other things that need to be implemented, like the importance of a Constitution and a freedom of speech 

But the idea of Democracy and what that gives us as citizens and how we have a better overall life generally has many examples but of course that doesnt mean people cant have valid criticisms so just to summarize what are your biggest concerns ?

[Guard Dog]

6 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Nah, vote for a socialist and GET THE BAG.

 LOL, if “real“ socialists ever get power men like us will be the first ones to be lined up and shot. 

[Guard Dog]

8 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

GD, you know I like to get your opinion on these matters 

When you say "burn "  I assume you mean metaphorically ? And if not what do you mean by that, for example the principle of any Democracy never fails. Democracies fail sometimes due to failure of other things that need to be implemented, like the importance of a Constitution and a freedom of speech 

But the idea of Democracy and what that gives us as citizens and how we have a better overall life generally has many examples but of course that doesnt mean people cant have valid criticisms so just to summarize what are your biggest concerns ?

 Republican democracy is a terrible system of governance. In fact it’s the worst kind. Except of course for all of the others. The problem is not that the system is flawed. The problem is that all of the choices are wrong. Gromnir  has going on at some length about all of the damage that Trump has done to the executive office and the balance of power. And he’s right. Is the thing though, it was only going to be Trump or Hillary Clinton. Is there anything about Hillary Clinton’s past, present, pattern of behavior, or reputation that leads any sane person to believe she would’ve been the kind of president that respects the  limitations of the office?  Or the ethics that are expected of the executive? The answer to that is obviously no.   So with a contest of two villains we’re told voting third-party is throwing our vote away.  Do you know the old adage when the sheep have to choose between the lion or the wolf they are only voting for which belly they end up in. 

 

 Next year‘s election will be the same. With just two exceptions neither of which has a realistic shot of winning, no one currently running for president will make a capable or ethical leader that respects the limitations of the office. So you see? No matter what happens we are f——d.

[Skarpen]

12 hours ago, KaineParker said:

...aren't there people doing longer stints for weed? What a country.

Well the answer to the question is well yes, but actually no. Depends on what you mean by "for weed". Possession, selling, distribution, smuggling, running a criminal empire that whacks people?

19 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Nah, vote for a socialist and GET THE BAG.

...over your head, before the execution?