The Ultimate discussion thread Pt 2

[cohlin]

17 hours ago, Waski said:

-blade cascade on

-trigger reforge and extend it, if you knocked yourself out you will stand up and won't be paralyzed, otherwise save/reload and you good

-any recovery will be permament (that's why blade cascade should be triggeret first) so no weapon switching or black jacket + quick switch, wizards are f@ckd ? (nothing reduces to 0 grimoire switch recovery ??)

all out of combat with cheese

 

Umm I'm trying to understand it, you mean trigger reforge, extend it and then find something else to knock you out? Does that mean you cannot do it while soloing?

[Waski]

nope, you can knock yourself out while triggering it via scroll or rakhan boots, especially if you have a lot of lash from deltro etc

 

[Kaylon]

19 hours ago, Waski said:

-any recovery will be permament (that's why blade cascade should be triggeret first) so no weapon switching or black jacket + quick switch, wizards are f@ckd ? (nothing reduces to 0 grimoire switch recovery ??)

Do you mind explaining what does it mean? 

[Waski]

24 minutes ago, Kaylon said:

Do you mind explaining what does it mean? 

If you incur any recovery phase (attack, cast, weapon switching etc) you will be unable to do anything, that's why you need blade cascade first (otherwise you can't do anything besides walking). For weapon switching you need black jacket and quickswitch or do what Vic explain few posts up.

 

[Boeroer]

I think Kaylon meant why you'll have endless recovery to begin with.

 

[Waski]

33 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I think Kaylon meant why you'll have endless recovery to begin with.

 

if I had to guess it's because of reforge (it was always there when i triggered it) don't ask me why, I don't know  I just tinkered with it a little to check if there is workaround from it

[Boeroer]

I think any hard CC freezes the recovery? 

[abot]

something I realized recently in case it is not already common knowledge: I think that to avoid the first risky fight in the Oracle of Wael small room, you should not steal things in the rooms with big Wael Eyes looking at you and not use the mages quest scrolls on the machine in the Memory Hoarder room until you have already talked with the oracle

[thelee]

On 2/21/2021 at 7:43 AM, abot said:

I think that to avoid the first risky fight in the Oracle of Wael small room, you should not steal things in the rooms with big Wael Eyes looking at you and not use the mages quest scrolls on the machine in the Memory Hoarder room until you have already talked with the oracle

wowowow i never knew this.

[abot]

another interesting effect I realized can be prolonged swapping strand/gambeson/ooblit:
unstable soul essence bomb, +1 health restored per sec

 

[abot]

A revised table about number of item swappings needed to prolong effects for X days, based on hopefully more correct formula:
1 in game day = 27 hours, game real time speed = 24x so 1 sec = 24/(3600*27) = 1/4050 days
APPLY EFFECT SWAPS TIMES TO ACHIEVE DURATION IN real time SECONDS and in game DAYS
e.g. starting form 3 real time sec effect duration, you would need about 134 - 11 = 123 swaps to reach 80 in game days effect duration,
starting form 30 real time sec effect duration, you would need about 134 - 36 = 98 swaps to reach 80 in game days effect duration...

SWAPS	SECONDS	DAYS
0	1,0000	0,00
1	1,1000	0,00
2	1,2100	0,00
3	1,3310	0,00
4	1,4641	0,00
5	1,6105	0,00
6	1,7716	0,00
7	1,9487	0,00
8	2,1436	0,00
9	2,3579	0,00
10	2,5937	0,00
11	2,8531	0,00
12	3,1384	0,00
13	3,4523	0,00
14	3,7975	0,00
15	4,1772	0,00
16	4,5950	0,00
17	5,0545	0,00
18	5,5599	0,00
19	6,1159	0,00
20	6,7275	0,00
21	7,4002	0,00
22	8,1403	0,00
23	8,9543	0,00
24	9,8497	0,00
25	10,8347	0,00
26	11,9182	0,00
27	13,1100	0,00
28	14,4210	0,00
29	15,8631	0,00
30	17,4494	0,00
31	19,1943	0,00
32	21,1138	0,01
33	23,2252	0,01
34	25,5477	0,01
35	28,1024	0,01
36	30,9127	0,01
37	34,0039	0,01
38	37,4043	0,01
39	41,1448	0,01
40	45,2593	0,01
41	49,7852	0,01
42	54,7637	0,01
43	60,2401	0,01
44	66,2641	0,02
45	72,8905	0,02
46	80,1795	0,02
47	88,1975	0,02
48	97,0172	0,02
49	106,7190	0,03
50	117,3909	0,03
51	129,1299	0,03
52	142,0429	0,04
53	156,2472	0,04
54	171,8719	0,04
55	189,0591	0,05
56	207,9651	0,05
57	228,7616	0,06
58	251,6377	0,06
59	276,8015	0,07
60	304,4816	0,08
61	334,9298	0,08
62	368,4228	0,09
63	405,2651	0,10
64	445,7916	0,11
65	490,3707	0,12
66	539,4078	0,13
67	593,3486	0,15
68	652,6834	0,16
69	717,9518	0,18
70	789,7470	0,19
71	868,7217	0,21
72	955,5938	0,24
73	1051,1532	0,26
74	1156,2685	0,29
75	1271,8954	0,31
76	1399,0849	0,35
77	1538,9934	0,38
78	1692,8927	0,42
79	1862,1820	0,46
80	2048,4002	0,51
81	2253,2402	0,56
82	2478,5643	0,61
83	2726,4207	0,67
84	2999,0628	0,74
85	3298,9690	0,81
86	3628,8659	0,90
87	3991,7525	0,99
88	4390,9278	1,08
89	4830,0206	1,19
90	5313,0226	1,31
91	5844,3249	1,44
92	6428,7574	1,59
93	7071,6331	1,75
94	7778,7964	1,92
95	8556,6760	2,11
96	9412,3437	2,32
97	10353,5780	2,56
98	11388,9358	2,81
99	12527,8294	3,09
100	13780,6123	3,40
101	15158,6736	3,74
102	16674,5409	4,12
103	18341,9950	4,53
104	20176,1945	4,98
105	22193,8140	5,48
106	24413,1954	6,03
107	26854,5149	6,63
108	29539,9664	7,29
109	32493,9630	8,02
110	35743,3594	8,83
111	39317,6953	9,71
112	43249,4648	10,68
113	47574,4113	11,75
114	52331,8524	12,92
115	57565,0377	14,21
116	63321,5414	15,63
117	69653,6956	17,20
118	76619,0651	18,92
119	84280,9717	20,81
120	92709,0688	22,89
121	101979,9757	25,18
122	112177,9733	27,70
123	123395,7706	30,47
124	135735,3477	33,51
125	149308,8824	36,87
126	164239,7707	40,55
127	180663,7477	44,61
128	198730,1225	49,07
129	218603,1348	53,98
130	240463,4482	59,37
131	264509,7931	65,31
132	290960,7724	71,84
133	320056,8496	79,03
134	352062,5346	86,93
135	387268,7880	95,62
136	425995,6668	105,18
137	468595,2335	115,70
138	515454,7568	127,27
139	567000,2325	140,00
140	623700,2558	154,00
141	686070,2814	169,40
142	754677,3095	186,34
143	830145,0404	204,97
144	913159,5445	225,47
145	1004475,4989	248,02
146	1104923,0488	272,82
147	1215415,3537	300,10
148	1336956,8891	330,11
149	1470652,5780	363,12
150	1617717,8358	399,44
151	1779489,6194	439,38
152	1957438,5813	483,32
153	2153182,4394	531,65
154	2368500,6834	584,81
155	2605350,7517	643,30
156	2865885,8269	707,63
157	3152474,4096	778,39
158	3467721,8505	856,23
159	3814494,0356	941,85
160	4195943,4391	1036,04
161	4615537,7830	1139,64
162	5077091,5613	1253,60
163	5584800,7175	1378,96
164	6143280,7892	1516,86
165	6757608,8681	1668,55
166	7433369,7549	1835,40

Edited April 22, 2021 by abot

[Boeroer]

How did you determine the time need for a swap? 

And did you guys know that you can swap SoF etc. a lot faster if you move the mouse cursor a tiny bit on the icon after each click? That way you will prevent the game from registering a double-click.

[abot]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

How did you determine the time need for a swap? 

And did you guys know that you can swap SoF etc. a lot faster if you move the mouse cursor a tiny bit on the icon after each click? That way you will prevent the game from registering a double-click.

well you start from the effect duration description in seconds, usually it is at least 3 sec. Then you can in theory calculate 5% increase per point of intelligence > 10, but not really needed. if you don't have Wael challenge enabled it should be already visible in the tooltip.
then in that table you look for the row having about that duration in seconds e.g. assuming I have a 3sec positive effect and 16 INT, it would be something like 3 + 30% = 3.9 sec, so about line 14
then you look for the desired duration e.g. to prolong for about 80 days max challenge duration it would need in theory about line 134 - 14 (the starting time line) --> at least 120 swaps

about the swapping time, there are a couple ways to do it that I found working well
first one is to select an alternative object to swap e.g. strand of favor - another necklace, and single click while hovering over the (e.g. neck) slot. This is slow but the most important thing is to count the swaps so you would not be able to do it super fast anyway on the ultimate challenge (and this is what people playing the challenge usually do).
second one is to put the alternative object in the player personal objects area and double click it, it is faster but harder to count. this option can be used e.g. with a mouse macro to do it really super fast and easily if you are not doing the ultimate/not using wael/on a test playthrough as you can just start the macro, wait a minute and stop it when you see duration: infinite (it works more or less like swapping the Lethandria shield from AI script)

Edited April 22, 2021 by abot

[Raven Darkholme]

After not having touched my Ultimate for over 3 months due to personal issues, I finally revisited it today and lost it in a very unexpected manner.

I wanted to have an Avenging Storm scroll for water dragon fight, but didn't have wind essence (or whatever it's called :P), and the Scrooge in me let me go in Watershapers Guild first to avoid having to buy it in shops, because there are Storm Blights in there and quite a few of them.

Ofc I didn't get any, never lucky, and decided to be 100% sure for Nery fight, even tho Avenging Storm is not needed whatsoever and go out and buy either an essence or a scroll, whatever the shops have.

Unfortunately on my way out I talked to the Guildmaster, since i recovered her staff, which triggered the next step of the quest, and when I exited the watershaper's guild the dragon escaped and berath said hi immediately.

[Waski]

wtf Vic

[dgray62]

1 hour ago, Raven Darkholme said:

Unfortunately on my way out I talked to the Guildmaster, since i recovered her staff, which triggered the next step of the quest, and when I exited the watershaper's guild the dragon escaped and berath said hi immediately.

So do you die if the dragon escapes without you freeing or killing it? I've always done one of the latter options, and have never left the guild mid quest.

[abot]

20 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

So do you die if the dragon escapes without you freeing or killing it? I've always done one of the latter options, and have never left the guild mid quest.

it is one of the Ultimate targets, and this is the one place you can kill it so if it escapes it is game over (same as Red Dragon)

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by abot

[Raven Darkholme]

Well I knew that I have to kill the dragon, but I had no idea you can't talk to the Guildmaster or you'll be forced to kill it before leaving the guild, lessons learned.

[abot]

I am not sure, but I think I remember it even triggers after receiving the quest to investigate the guild events from Onekaza.  After that, once you enter the underground floor of the guild you cannot go out without killing the dragon even if you don't talk with the guildmaster. I think I died like that during one of the test runs ([EDIT] or at least got the message about the dragon going away if that was a non-ultimate test run)

[EDIT2]
by the way, for anybody interested in swapping times, I realized 2nd table I posted some time ago  is probably not realistic, as when swapping/buffing with inventory opened time goes at 24x probably only during the few animation frames, compared to the time you spend on combat (where I think spell duration = real time seconds) or traveling (where you don't buff, time is stopped when you don't move and goes much faster when you move) it should be less relevant so a more practical table is probably like this (with day = 27 hours instead of 26 like assumed in 1st table)

SWAPS    SEC    DAYS
0    1,0000    0,00
1    1,1000    0,00
2    1,2100    0,00
3    1,3310    0,00
4    1,4641    0,00
5    1,6105    0,00
6    1,7716    0,00
7    1,9487    0,00
8    2,1436    0,00
9    2,3579    0,00
10    2,5937    0,00
11    2,8531    0,00
12    3,1384    0,00
13    3,4523    0,00
14    3,7975    0,00
15    4,1772    0,00
16    4,5950    0,00
17    5,0545    0,00
18    5,5599    0,00
19    6,1159    0,00
20    6,7275    0,00
21    7,4002    0,00
22    8,1403    0,00
23    8,9543    0,00
24    9,8497    0,00
25    10,8347    0,00
26    11,9182    0,00
27    13,1100    0,00
28    14,4210    0,00
29    15,8631    0,00
30    17,4494    0,00
31    19,1943    0,00
32    21,1138    0,00
33    23,2252    0,00
34    25,5477    0,00
35    28,1024    0,00
36    30,9127    0,00
37    34,0039    0,00
38    37,4043    0,00
39    41,1448    0,00
40    45,2593    0,00
41    49,7852    0,00
42    54,7637    0,00
43    60,2401    0,00
44    66,2641    0,00
45    72,8905    0,00
46    80,1795    0,00
47    88,1975    0,00
48    97,0172    0,00
49    106,7190    0,00
50    117,3909    0,00
51    129,1299    0,00
52    142,0429    0,00
53    156,2472    0,00
54    171,8719    0,00
55    189,0591    0,00
56    207,9651    0,00
57    228,7616    0,00
58    251,6377    0,00
59    276,8015    0,00
60    304,4816    0,00
61    334,9298    0,00
62    368,4228    0,00
63    405,2651    0,00
64    445,7916    0,00
65    490,3707    0,01
66    539,4078    0,01
67    593,3486    0,01
68    652,6834    0,01
69    717,9518    0,01
70    789,7470    0,01
71    868,7217    0,01
72    955,5938    0,01
73    1051,1532    0,01
74    1156,2685    0,01
75    1271,8954    0,01
76    1399,0849    0,01
77    1538,9934    0,02
78    1692,8927    0,02
79    1862,1820    0,02
80    2048,4002    0,02
81    2253,2402    0,02
82    2478,5643    0,03
83    2726,4207    0,03
84    2999,0628    0,03
85    3298,9690    0,03
86    3628,8659    0,04
87    3991,7525    0,04
88    4390,9278    0,05
89    4830,0206    0,05
90    5313,0226    0,05
91    5844,3249    0,06
92    6428,7574    0,07
93    7071,6331    0,07
94    7778,7964    0,08
95    8556,6760    0,09
96    9412,3437    0,10
97    10353,5780    0,11
98    11388,9358    0,12
99    12527,8294    0,13
100    13780,6123    0,14
101    15158,6736    0,16
102    16674,5409    0,17
103    18341,9950    0,19
104    20176,1945    0,21
105    22193,8140    0,23
106    24413,1954    0,25
107    26854,5149    0,28
108    29539,9664    0,30
109    32493,9630    0,33
110    35743,3594    0,37
111    39317,6953    0,40
112    43249,4648    0,44
113    47574,4113    0,49
114    52331,8524    0,54
115    57565,0377    0,59
116    63321,5414    0,65
117    69653,6956    0,72
118    76619,0651    0,79
119    84280,9717    0,87
120    92709,0688    0,95
121    101979,9757    1,05
122    112177,9733    1,15
123    123395,7706    1,27
124    135735,3477    1,40
125    149308,8824    1,54
126    164239,7707    1,69
127    180663,7477    1,86
128    198730,1225    2,04
129    218603,1348    2,25
130    240463,4482    2,47
131    264509,7931    2,72
132    290960,7724    2,99
133    320056,8496    3,29
134    352062,5346    3,62
135    387268,7880    3,98
136    425995,6668    4,38
137    468595,2335    4,82
138    515454,7568    5,30
139    567000,2325    5,83
140    623700,2558    6,42
141    686070,2814    7,06
142    754677,3095    7,76
143    830145,0404    8,54
144    913159,5445    9,39
145    1004475,4989    10,33
146    1104923,0488    11,37
147    1215415,3537    12,50
148    1336956,8891    13,75
149    1470652,5780    15,13
150    1617717,8358    16,64
151    1779489,6194    18,31
152    1957438,5813    20,14
153    2153182,4394    22,15
154    2368500,6834    24,37
155    2605350,7517    26,80
156    2865885,8269    29,48
157    3152474,4096    32,43
158    3467721,8505    35,68
159    3814494,0356    39,24
160    4195943,4391    43,17
161    4615537,7830    47,48
162    5077091,5613    52,23
163    5584800,7175    57,46
164    6143280,7892    63,20
165    6757608,8681    69,52
166    7433369,7549    76,47
167    8176706,7304    84,12
168    8994377,4035    92,53
169    9893815,1438    101,79
170    10883196,6582    111,97

APPLY EFFECT ROW NUMBER + 1 SWAPS TO ACHIEVE DURATION IN SEC/DAYS (ASSUMING 1 EORA DAY = 27 HOURS, GAME SPELLS DURATION IN COMBAT = REAL TIME

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by abot

[Raven Darkholme]

41 minutes ago, abot said:

I am not sure, but I think I remember it even triggers after receiving the quest to investigate the guild events from Onekaza.  After that, once you enter the underground floor of the guild you cannot go out without killing the dragon even if you don't talk with the guildmaster. I think I died like that during one of the test runs ([EDIT] or at least got the message about the dragon going away if that was a non-ultimate test run)

Nah I've been down there on this run before just for triggering the xp from talking to her the first time.

(I had slippers of the assassin active from smth else so I could move freely without fighting, so why not xd)

[abot]

Ah, that may be different, I think I got the few loot from the underground floor well before receiving the quest, when the Naga were not yet there, then that one time I went down after getting the quest with the naga already there and tried to go out without fighting the dragon went away

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by abot

[Raven Darkholme]

Well the Naga  were there for me too, I just didn't fight them, since I had slippers xd.

[abot]

Same build next try, or something different?

[Raven Darkholme]

I'm feeling something cipher, but not sure what, obvious choice would be priest or mage, but thats boring...

Maybe I'll take a break from Ultimate ....

[Boeroer]

SC Mage Slayer!