Political Point and Counterpoint

[Guard Dog]

Everything wrong with Brexit right now is an object lesson against joining such union to begin with. Once things like this are put together it is a hell of a lot harder to take them apart. 

 

That is actually a pretty good argument against marriage too. 

[Pidesco]

Everything wrong with Brexit right now is an object lesson against joining such union to begin with. Once things like this are put together it is a hell of a lot harder to take them apart. 

 

That is actually a pretty good argument against marriage too. 

 

That's also an argument against any sort of society or even any vague assemblage of beings for a common purpose. Also against sexual relations of any sort. A pretty nonsensical line of reasoning all in all, unless you are an extreme existential nihilist.

 

 

 

Edit: Also ecosystems! What sort of idiot came up with that nonsense, I say! I mean if some stupid chemical compound hadn't decided to go ahead and change willy-nilly, we could have avoided the climate disaster that's coming.

[Guard Dog]

. Also against sexual relations of any sort.

 

What? You've never had a one night stand?

 

 

Also ecosystems! What sort of idiot came up with that nonsense, I say! I mean if some stupid chemical compound hadn't decided to go ahead and change willy-nilly, we could have avoided the climate disaster that's coming.

 

Not the same thing. Molecules don't choose to combine. Chemical reactions happen because they can. Two protein chains didn't just hook up in the Primordial Soup night club dance floor and decide "what the hell let's go out to the car and start all life as we know it".

 

 

unless you are an extreme existential nihilist.

Your point being 

[213374U]

That's also an argument against any sort of society or even any vague assemblage of beings for a common purpose. Also against sexual relations of any sort. A pretty nonsensical line of reasoning all in all, unless you are an extreme existential nihilist.

There's some evidence that homo sapiens evolved to be more gregarious and have more complex social structures than neanderthals, which may be why we are around today but they aren't. Philosophical foundations like Rousseau's Social Contract came after humans organized themselves in societies across the world, rather than acting as a catalyst for their formation.

 

I remain somewhat skeptical that bureaucratic monstrosities like the EU are in any way an inevitable result of natural forces beyond our control like evolution or electronegativity.

 

I may be a bit on the "extreme existential nihilist" side, though.

[smjjames]

@KTchong: Does Afghanistan even HAVE oil? It does have other mineral resources though.

 

I thiiinnnk GD is being not-so-serious there with being nihilist in an ironic fashion.

 

Anyways, they've also been bungling it pretty much every step of the way, not deciding what they want before pulling the trigger on article 50, wasting time with a snap election, and a bunch of other things. Granted, hindsight is 20/20, but still.

[Chilloutman]

@KTchong: Does Afghanistan even HAVE oil? It does have other mineral resources though.

 

I thiiinnnk GD is being not-so-serious there with being nihilist in an ironic fashion.

 

Anyways, they've also been bungling it pretty much every step of the way, not deciding what they want before pulling the trigger on article 50, wasting time with a snap election, and a bunch of other things. Granted, hindsight is 20/20, but still.

 

No, Afghanistan got only tons of poppy

[Malcador]

Seems Afghanistan does have have oil and natural gas.

 

https://afghanistan.cr.usgs.gov/oil-and-natural-gas-publications-maps

 

 

https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2006/3031/

 

 

 

Using a geology-based assessment methodology, the U.S. Geological Survey–Afghanistan Ministry of Mines and Industry Joint Oil and Gas Resource Assessment Team estimated mean volumes of undiscovered petroleum in northern Afghanistan; the resulting estimates are 1,596 million barrels of crude oil, 15,687 billion cubic feet of natural gas, and 562 million barrels of natural gas liquids. Most of the undiscovered crude oil is in the Afghan-Tajik Basin, and most of the undiscovered natural gas is in the Amu Darya Basin.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Malcador

[Pidesco]

 

That's also an argument against any sort of society or even any vague assemblage of beings for a common purpose. Also against sexual relations of any sort. A pretty nonsensical line of reasoning all in all, unless you are an extreme existential nihilist.

There's some evidence that homo sapiens evolved to be more gregarious and have more complex social structures than neanderthals, which may be why we are around today but they aren't. Philosophical foundations like Rousseau's Social Contract came after humans organized themselves in societies across the world, rather than acting as a catalyst for their formation.

 

I remain somewhat skeptical that bureaucratic monstrosities like the EU are in any way an inevitable result of natural forces beyond our control like evolution or electronegativity.

 

I may be a bit on the "extreme existential nihilist" side, though.

 

 

There are plenty of arguments against gargantuan bureaucracies like the EU, but Brexit isn't one of them. More like the other way around, probably, although Brexit is mainly an argument for throwing the British political class from very high into a fiery lake of lava lamps.

[Guard Dog]

@KTchong: Does Afghanistan even HAVE oil? It does have other mineral resources though.

 

I thiiinnnk GD is being not-so-serious there with being nihilist in an ironic fashion.

 

Anyways, they've also been bungling it pretty much every step of the way, not deciding what they want before pulling the trigger on article 50, wasting time with a snap election, and a bunch of other things. Granted, hindsight is 20/20, but still.

About half f what I say around here is with my tongue stuck in my cheek.

[Chilloutman]

 

 

That's also an argument against any sort of society or even any vague assemblage of beings for a common purpose. Also against sexual relations of any sort. A pretty nonsensical line of reasoning all in all, unless you are an extreme existential nihilist.

There's some evidence that homo sapiens evolved to be more gregarious and have more complex social structures than neanderthals, which may be why we are around today but they aren't. Philosophical foundations like Rousseau's Social Contract came after humans organized themselves in societies across the world, rather than acting as a catalyst for their formation.

 

I remain somewhat skeptical that bureaucratic monstrosities like the EU are in any way an inevitable result of natural forces beyond our control like evolution or electronegativity.

 

I may be a bit on the "extreme existential nihilist" side, though.

 

 

There are plenty of arguments against gargantuan bureaucracies like the EU, but Brexit isn't one of them. More like the other way around, probably, although Brexit is mainly an argument for throwing the British political class from very high into a fiery lake of lava lamps.

 

 

Brexit is not argument against EU, its results of it

[smjjames]

 

Seems Afghanistan does have have oil and natural gas.

 

https://afghanistan.cr.usgs.gov/oil-and-natural-gas-publications-maps

 

 

https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2006/3031/

 

 

 

Using a geology-based assessment methodology, the U.S. Geological Survey–Afghanistan Ministry of Mines and Industry Joint Oil and Gas Resource Assessment Team estimated mean volumes of undiscovered petroleum in northern Afghanistan; the resulting estimates are 1,596 million barrels of crude oil, 15,687 billion cubic feet of natural gas, and 562 million barrels of natural gas liquids. Most of the undiscovered crude oil is in the Afghan-Tajik Basin, and most of the undiscovered natural gas is in the Amu Darya Basin.

 

 

How much of it would be recoverable though? If that's the estimated recoverable amounts, that's not very much compared to most of the world. Though the natural gas field sounds like it'd be one of the larger ones out there.

 

Probably too late for Afghanistan to jump on the oil train, but it could still be part of a diverse economy since it's pretty rich in other mineral resources.

[Guard Dog]

If you knew the room you were about to walk into was completely inescapable would you still walk in? If someone told you beforehand it would be would you still do it? I would have been leery of joining the EU right from the get go. Free trade, free travel, etc that's all great. But giving some aspects of the governance of you home over to people not from your home? That is a big "no" from me. 

[Gfted1]

The EU is almost 26yo. Some posters have never known a life otherwise.

[BruceVC]

If you knew the room you were about to walk into was completely inescapable would you still walk in? If someone told you beforehand it would be would you still do it? I would have been leery of joining the EU right from the get go. Free trade, free travel, etc that's all great. But giving some aspects of the governance of you home over to people not from your home? That is a big "no" from me. 

This is the actual conundrum or real debate which I still think staying in the EU is worth it considering access to the single market and the immense economic benefits this brings 

 

But of course if you want to create an economic and political union of separate countries you have to accept certain aspects of sovereignty  will be sacrificed and you need to accept certain laws and regulations driven from a central government structure. Other countries have tried to create models like the EU and they have failed, like the African Union and the Arab League because there is no consistency with laws, governance and more importantly enforcing of the laws of these  unions

 

It would be very hard for most Americans to agree to this because your federal system, despite its challengers, does work and delivers real examples of prosperity and quality of life for many  Americans. You dont need anymore federal influence in the affairs of states and I doubt it would be accepted in many US states 

 

And  obviously the political models are fundamentally different   due to several reasons  like the USA being one country. Not a myriad of countries before the formation of the  EU that initially had many differences like language, constitutions, currency and views around trade 

[BruceVC]

 

 

Seems Afghanistan does have have oil and natural gas.

 

https://afghanistan.cr.usgs.gov/oil-and-natural-gas-publications-maps

 

 

https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2006/3031/

 

 

 

Using a geology-based assessment methodology, the U.S. Geological Survey–Afghanistan Ministry of Mines and Industry Joint Oil and Gas Resource Assessment Team estimated mean volumes of undiscovered petroleum in northern Afghanistan; the resulting estimates are 1,596 million barrels of crude oil, 15,687 billion cubic feet of natural gas, and 562 million barrels of natural gas liquids. Most of the undiscovered crude oil is in the Afghan-Tajik Basin, and most of the undiscovered natural gas is in the Amu Darya Basin.

 

 

How much of it would be recoverable though? If that's the estimated recoverable amounts, that's not very much compared to most of the world. Though the natural gas field sounds like it'd be one of the larger ones out there.

 

Probably too late for Afghanistan to jump on the oil train, but it could still be part of a diverse economy since it's pretty rich in other mineral resources.

 

Also investing in Afghanistan for most  global oil and gas companies is simply not worth the investment due to the risk , the country is far too unstable due to the interminable belligerence and destabilizing actions of the Taliban who still want the country to be governed like some medieval, barbaric,  anachronistic fiefdom where they can practice there own corrupted form of Islam 

[213374U]

If you knew the room you were about to walk into was completely inescapable would you still walk in? If someone told you beforehand it would be would you still do it? I would have been leery of joining the EU right from the get go. Free trade, free travel, etc that's all great. But giving some aspects of the governance of you home over to people not from your home? That is a big "no" from me.

It isn't really the EU bureaucracy making it difficult for Britain, though. Mostly British politicians refusing to accept the result of the referendum on one side of the aisle, and hardliners frontally rejecting any kind of deal that may "bind the UK to Europe" and who are banking on a no-deal hard Brexit on the other, making it impossible to break the legislative stalemate.

 

 

Brexit is mainly an argument for throwing the British political class from very high into a fiery lake of lava lamps.

No argument from me.

[Elerond]

The EU is almost 26yo. Some posters have never known a life otherwise.

 

EU's foundation was over 66 years ago, when European Coal and Steel Community was formed in 1952. EU as we know it is result of decades of trade and other political dealings over that foundation. Like European Atomic Energy Community (1958), European Economic Community (1957), Terrorism, Radicalism, Extremism and Violence Internationally (TREVI) [1975], Franco-British alliance (1947) -> Western Union (WU) [1948] -> Western European Union (WEU) [1954], European Political Cooperation (1986), Schengen Treaty (1985) and European Communities (European Council and Commission 1965).

 

In Maastricht Treaty in 1992 these things were combined behind singular entity which we know as EU.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Elerond

[Zoraptor]

 

There are plenty of arguments against gargantuan bureaucracies like the EU, but Brexit isn't one of them. More like the other way around, probably, although Brexit is mainly an argument for throwing the British political class from very high into a fiery lake of lava lamps.

 

 

Brexit is an argument against the EU- it's also an argument for trebucheting 90kg british politicians over a distance of 300m 330yd as well.

 

If you join a monolithic authoritarian entity like the EU you want a way out, even more so if you actually joined the far less monolithic and authoritarian EEC. The EU has made the exit difficult as well as there being political incompetence on the brit side; and the EU (well, protoEU mostly) has a history of ignoring democracy/ end running referenda whose results they don't like. It may not be in the EU's interests to offer an easy way out and to be obstructive pour décourager les autres who might be thinking that the increasingly constrictive EU isn't a great idea, but from an individual country's perspective you always want a way out just in case Germany is looking for another country to Greece.

 

Let's be frank, Article 50 was added as a sop to euroskeptics and was never in a million years intended to be used. As much as the British response was been shambolic the EU also had no plan for anyone daring to leave either, their job is just a lot easier since in the end their goal is to make sure no one else ever tries to leave- so a bad process is a net plus to them and almost certainly part of a plan to get the referendum invalidated or have the UK return later.

[smjjames]

They still can't decide: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47781009 Theres gotta be a better way to resolve this...

 

Also, a week or two ago, I saw an article saying that a former Irish PM (well, a former politician, I forget who) said that they could ttry public commissions or something which are common in NI or something. That idea would have been good to suggest two years ago.....

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Brexit is mainly an argument for throwing the British political class from very high into a fiery lake of lava lamps.

To risk the ire of the NSA*, I can't think of any event in recent history that didn't support doing that to the political class of every country and the top .1% who own everything.

 

*How ya doin there bucko?

[Volourn]

Gotta love Turdeau. I can't believe my country elected a real life SJW Nazi to run our country. LMAO

 

And, MAN, does he LOATHE women.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Volourn

[BruceVC]

Gotta love Turdeau. I can't believe my country elected a real life SJW Nazi to run our country. LMAO

 

And, MAN, does he LOATHE women.

What has he done that has irked you so ?

 

I like Trudeau but Im not sure everything he has done is as helpful to the SJ cause as I use to believe 

Edited April 3, 2019 by BruceVC

[Pidesco]

https://twitter.com/funder/status/1113193681211801600

 

The oranges of the Mueller report.

[Malcador]

Gotta love Turdeau. I can't believe my country elected a real life SJW Nazi to run our country. LMAO

 

And, MAN, does he LOATHE women.

How are you seeing him loathe women?

 

Philpott was stupid as **** to give that Maclean's interview. But political parties are a mafia.

[Volourn]

He's known toi sexually harass women, he's known to physically assault women, he's known to hate strong women who stand up to him when he tries to intimidate and bully them into abusing power to twist and and bend the alw for his evil purposes than he ****cans them . Rememebr, one of these women he threw in the trash he bragged that she was the first Native woman MP now he claims she is crappy at her job. Funny enough, the gov't has made laws to protect whistleblowers in business but who will protect gov't whistleblowers who call out the PM and his cronies when they do immoral Nazi stuff?

 

The guy is a piece of crap. It's that simple.