The Political Thread - Browncoat edition... down with the Alliance!

[Guard Dog]

In the spirit of keeping funny political separate from just funny I'll leave this one here:

 

[SonicMage117]

Oh my, that pic is going to offend Ktchong to level one tillion!!

Edited February 23, 2019 by SonicMage117

[Guard Dog]

If you are a supporter of Bernie Sanders you really, really need some medication. Or education. Try reading a book or two. This would be a good one to start with:

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Guard Dog

[213374U]

You know, I was going to post a snide rebuttal, but I thought to myself... **** it. Just gonna ****post commie memes from now on, since it's a more productive use of everyone's time. Or at least mine's. Enjoy.

 

 

[Malcador]

Hey now, no slandering Pingu

[ktchong]

Yup, it's time for Guard Dog to panic, because if the trend and Blue Wave of the 2018 midterm election continues into 2020, then any of the declared Democratic candidates will beat Donald Trump - and Bernie Sanders is the frontrunner of the Democratic primaries.

Edited February 23, 2019 by ktchong

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

You know, I was going to post a snide rebuttal, but I thought to myself... **** it. Just gonna ****post commie memes from now on, since it's a more productive use of everyone's time. Or at least mine's. Enjoy.

 

 

Get on my level.

[HoonDing]

If you are a supporter of <insert name> you really, really need some medication. Or education. Try reading a book or two. This would be a good one to start with: <google image :basic: .jpeg>

[injurai]

If you are a supporter of Bernie Sanders you really, really need some medication. Or education. Try reading a book or two. This would be a good one to start with:

 

 

If you think Bernie's election will be the start of a disastrous American Red "Blue" Wave, then I think you're sadly mistaken. He'd be president, sure, he won't be able to introduce laws into congress. At a district level people are far less interested in a loony representatives like AOC. They don't believe in a communist or socialist paradise. They might believe in forms of public insurance, safety nets, investment pipelines for human capital, and generating lower skilled jobs through infrastructure spending. But they aren't looking to revoke private property rights. They are looking to close tax avoidance avenues which allows people to disproportionately acquire property rights which they have no business maintaining based on their contributions to society. What people are looking for are a compressed valuation of the dollar so that class mobility comes back, where the incentives align with productivity not merely rent seeking.

 

Populism is already here, and it's here for reasons of central economic policy that have long been in play. There are good reasons why people are turning on the neoliberal center. If Bernie wasn't shutout in the primaries I absolutely think he'd have won. Instead your only option was right-wing populism. People need an ice-breaker, they don't care who captains it. Which has been awful for the culture war, because it's driving classical liberals to the fringes. Since the neoliberals have no economic platform to sell to the people (only the elite) they are left only able to make a case for cultural mores, this is where the illiberal left get's it's strength as it strives to minimize overlap with the right (which happens when you pursue truth.) You don't need Bernie to confuse people towards socialist idealism, that's already baked into the current climate cake. Any sort of fiscal realignment will ultimately still be embedded in capitalism, socialism is merely a reused brand. Which as the side affect of making a smallish pool of reactionary marxist gather on the fringes, but no more. I think the elite are increasingly looking towards ways of making the gig economy more amenable to manage the over leveraged US population that had very little choice but to take out bad loans to get the sorts of training that keeps them competitively employed. We simply can't have colleges continue to be bad lenders in an economy that prevents inflation of any kind, while still not paying wages that even dent debts. Especially with the current state of rent seeking increasingly gutting the middle class. We also can't afford to not train our population to run the form of economy that the US is trending towards next, and the US absolutely can't let it's economy shrink like Japan for international monetary reasons. So either we need lots of cheap immigration, which adds to our inequal class systems. Or we need to shift our training and finance sectors sector as to not produce as much debtor liquidity that merely pools into the gravitation credit sinks of investment portfolios. Where by debts aren't payed but made deeper, only ever increasing the division of the working and empire building classes.

[Guard Dog]

Yup, it's time for Guard Dog to panic, because if the trend and Blue Wave of the 2018 midterm election continues into 2020, then any of the declared Democratic candidates will beat Donald Trump - and Bernie Sanders is the frontrunner of the Democratic primaries.

Exactly how is that going to make me panic? Even if that goes exactly as you hope were trading one set of problems for a slightly different version of the same problems. You're telling me instead of being stung by a scorpion I get to be bitten by a snake. Hooray for us. 

 

Let me tell you a secret ktchong. The left wing and the right wing? They are both part of the same ugly bird. 

 

Here is another little secret... no matter who wins in '20 this gets worse: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

Tick tock tick tock tick tock.....

Edited February 23, 2019 by Guard Dog

[smjjames]

 

Yup, it's time for Guard Dog to panic, because if the trend and Blue Wave of the 2018 midterm election continues into 2020, then any of the declared Democratic candidates will beat Donald Trump - and Bernie Sanders is the frontrunner of the Democratic primaries.

Exactly how is that going to make me panic? Even if that goes exactly as you hope were trading one set of problems for a slightly different version of the same problems. You're telling me instead of being stung by a scorpion I get to be bitten by a snake. Hooray for us. 

 

Let me tell you a secret ktchong. The left wing and the right wing? They are both part of the same ugly bird. 

 

Here is another little secret... no matter who wins in '20 this gets worse: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

Tick tock tick tock tick tock.....

 

 

I think ktchong is messing with you a bit GD Also @ktchong, there are roughly three months (I know the first debate is in June, don't know the specific date) until the first Democratic debates, a bit less than a year before the first primaries and over a year before the final primaries. A LOT can change in that amount of time and as we've seen in 2016, the term 'frontrunner' is quite ephemeral in a crowded primary. He may be the frontrunner now, but how long will he stay there?

 

On free college and whatever, ideas and all are good, but the candidates will still have to figure out how to pay for it.

 

@ the commie/socialist whatever, did you know that two of the most cherished things by conservatives were once bashed as being communist/socialist?

 

https://static.politico.com/dims4/default/08a57a3/2147483647/resize/1160x%3E/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2Fd2%2F26%2F8f8eb9b243b591dcf1fe2504df19%2F6-bill-bramhall-new-york-daily-news.jpg

 

heh (I wanted to link the image directly to here, but forum software won't let me. )

Edited February 23, 2019 by smjjames

[Guard Dog]

 

 

On free college and whatever, ideas and all are good, but the candidates will still have to figure out how to pay for it.

 

 

 

 I disagree with you on that count. I don't think the idea of free social benefits or new "rights" to healthcare etc is all that good an idea. That isn't freedom. Freedom isn't an endlessly expanding list of rights -- the "right" to education, the "right" to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. What they are promising us are the rations of slavery -- hay and a barn for human cattle. Freedom is summed up in only one basic human right: the right to do as you damn well please. Take care of your own business with minimal intrusion from the government or each other so long as you don't intrude on everyone else's one basic right. THEN the government has a job to do. Not before.

 

And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences. Good or bad. 

 

When I look at the Presidential candidates of 2020 I am reminded of a quote from Daniel Webster: "There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters"

Edited February 23, 2019 by Guard Dog

[BruceVC]

If you are a supporter of Bernie Sanders you really, really need some medication. Or education. Try reading a book or two. This would be a good one to start with:

 

 

Bernie Sanders means well as I have said in the past so my view of him is not personal but him also joining the Democratic race just adds to my concern about the overall Democrat ideological message.

 

 

Bernie Sanders is indirectly responsible for a failure of unity amongst his supporters when he lost to Clinton which didnt help with the overall Democrat objective of winning the election , yes he told his supporters to support her but there was too much vitriol and mistrust so some of his supporters refused to endorse her .....Im not sure if that has ever happened before. Normally people align behind the political  party and not the person as the overall political aspirations should matter more than the person because the personality is the party surly ?

 

Anyway he wont be much of an problem for Trump considering what Trump seems to focus on around his base and what he feels matters to him ...like the wall 

[smjjames]

 

 

 

On free college and whatever, ideas and all are good, but the candidates will still have to figure out how to pay for it.

 

 

 

 I disagree with you on that count. I don't think the idea of free social benefits or new "rights" to healthcare etc is all that good an idea. That isn't freedom. Freedom isn't an endlessly expanding list of rights -- the "right" to education, the "right" to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. What they are promising us are the rations of slavery -- hay and a barn for human cattle. Freedom is summed up in only one basic human right: the right to do as you damn well please. Take care of your own business with minimal intrusion from the government or each other so long as you don't intrude on everyone else's one basic right. THEN the government has a job to do. Not before.

 

And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences. Good or bad. 

 

When I look at the Presidential candidates of 2020 I am reminded of a quote from Daniel Webster: "There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters"

 

 

Regardless of whether it's a good idea or not, they still have to figure out how to pay for it, that was my point. 'Ideas and all' are good in the sense in that it's fine to have ideas and debate the merits of them, but when it comes time to actually apply them as policy.... see stuff like Trumps insistence that Mexico will pay for the wall and trickle down theory.

[Guard Dog]

 

 

 

 

On free college and whatever, ideas and all are good, but the candidates will still have to figure out how to pay for it.

 

 

 

 I disagree with you on that count. I don't think the idea of free social benefits or new "rights" to healthcare etc is all that good an idea. That isn't freedom. Freedom isn't an endlessly expanding list of rights -- the "right" to education, the "right" to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. What they are promising us are the rations of slavery -- hay and a barn for human cattle. Freedom is summed up in only one basic human right: the right to do as you damn well please. Take care of your own business with minimal intrusion from the government or each other so long as you don't intrude on everyone else's one basic right. THEN the government has a job to do. Not before.

 

And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences. Good or bad. 

 

When I look at the Presidential candidates of 2020 I am reminded of a quote from Daniel Webster: "There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters"

 

 

Regardless of whether it's a good idea or not, they still have to figure out how to pay for it, that was my point. 'Ideas and all' are good in the sense in that it's fine to have ideas and debate the merits of them, but when it comes time to actually apply them as policy.... see stuff like Trumps insistence that Mexico will pay for the wall and trickle down theory.

 

Doh.... Sorry I misread that. I thought you said the ideas are good. Sorry about that!

[injurai]

Normally people align behind the political  party and not the person as the overall political aspirations should matter more than the person because the personality is the party surly ?

 

This is the most naive thing ever. Not only do people rally behind individual leaders. But party platforms change and are not reliable constants. The last thing people want to do these days is merely tow the party line based on what it represents, not what it does. People become partisan because of their general orientation, but will refuse to vote outright given the wrong lineup of candidates.

[Maedhros]

Free education and healthcare is a given if you can pay for it as a collective. I think free education especially is wonderful, because it gives everyone the freedom to pursue the career they want. Makes for a better society with lower inequality. There's a reason the nordic countries always top the "World Happiness" reports.

[injurai]

How free is free education though? Typically people have to test into schools. The good thing about a lot of European schools is you know whether your on a trade, service, or intellectual labor track earlier. What's wrong with America is largely how it indiscriminately lets people take on debt on the gamble that they'll be able to pay it off. But inflation doesn't chip away at fixed interest rates, instead deflation is gutting the next generation whose label is going straight towards padding out boomers twilight years, while lengthening the non-productive years of an elderly voting class. (Not saying we should let the old die btw.)

 

It would be nice if people had more free time to pursue their passions as second order pursuits, and to ratchet down the high risk stakes of gambling everything on your first order pursuit. One pursuit would be filling a needed societal job, the other on your personal interest. That way you progress at your own rate, don't gamble everything on something you can't monetize. Those that can transition to be dedicate solely on their side pursuit earlier would have done so on their own merit, others still have a chance of making things work but aren't left high and dry. And I'm not just talking about struggling artists, I'm talking about people with hobby research and more. College in America is just the giant holding patter where people are unsure whether they'll make it out the other side or not. If they do there is no guarantee their gamble gets' them where they want to go. So many artists are absolutely chewed up, but even those in the STEM and Medical professions find themselves pinched in a highly competitive market that demands them make larger and larger personal sacrifices. All for what? For the sake of stretching boomers dollar while keeping corporate margins acceptably high? And now they don't even want to be in their roles and will probably decay in their effectiveness as they lack the motivation to stay fresh, all while trying to focus on building up the other half of their life that was delayed so many years?

 

Testing for free education though just means if you aren't at the place others are at during a certain arbitrary chosen cross-section of your life, you've been classified as a certain... class. That's not good because it stifles the sort of independent passion pursuits that others may make possible in a place like America when you take on student debt.

[ShadySands]

[BruceVC]

 

Normally people align behind the political  party and not the person as the overall political aspirations should matter more than the person because the personality is the party surly ?

 

This is the most naive thing ever. Not only do people rally behind individual leaders. But party platforms change and are not reliable constants. The last thing people want to do these days is merely tow the party line based on what it represents, not what it does. People become partisan because of their general orientation, but will refuse to vote outright given the wrong lineup of candidates.

 

 

I dont think this is accurate even if it seems logical 

 

Trump has changed the Republican party in some ways but you can definitely argue he has made some historical and ideological changes that suit the established, conservative base. These have always been important issues to  some Conservatives in the USA. like some of these 

 

• Tax Breaks to improve the economy
• Kavanaugh appointment to ensure the SC is correctly ideological balance (important to some Conservatives )
• Attempts to abolish Obamacare and other changes to Obamas presidency

I doubt Trump would have beaten Hilary Clinton if he ran as an independent and he could have , the Republican party does offer institutions and resources to any presidential candidate once elected that make  there job ostensibly easier 

 

If enough people really wanted radical change then there would be another independent party inn the USA but realistically people in most Democracies vote for the political party. Of courser the candidate matters but his views cant be anathema to most core fundamental party objectives or it would be inconsistent to what the party stands for ?

[Gromnir]

 

image

 

coulda' been almost any o' those scandinavian countries, and they choose norway?

 

https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/nor/

 

norway is almost as dependent on raw resource exports as is russia, which ain't a compliment, and nearly 60% o' all exports is petroleum-based. as such, norway suffers from extreme volatility o' currency.  

 

is also geographical much smaller and cultural far more homogenized than US.  problems facing norway is a bit different. 

 

 

got vast stretches o' highway in the west and midwest o' US with absolute nothing to mark passage save mileage markers.  is no wonder infrastructure improvements is so daunting. just one example.

 

coulda' used any scandinavian nation as an example, but we get home o' whale killers and recreational seal clubbers who is as over dependent on oil as russia? 

 

however, we get the point.  there is examples o' socialism working okie dokie for folks.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[injurai]

There is a massive difference between socialism, and earning a honest and fair living without fear of the financial sector screwing you to kingdom come. One thing I find odd is how Rutger Bregman's recent soapbox at Davos and elsewhere have been pretty well received. Him calling out hippocrates is commendable, but his alternatives are rather myopically ironic. In paraphrase. "Necessitating philanthropy bad, pay your god damn share of taxes." Well how is socialism any different national philanthropy? In some ways it's not. What if we maintained sensible tax regulations (I'll get back to this.) Problem is American finance bets on growth and we have to make good on the debt we've taken on. It's hard to socialize when your nation's asset and liability portfolios are so askew. Anything that looks like socialism will not even be national philanthropy but a new paradigm of credit lending, where everyone is seeded with what they need because they have no choice to have a high percentage of their wages garnished forever more (we just got back.)

 

When you really start looking at economics. You realize that anything could be anything else. It's the time frame of "lock ins" that tends to be the problem. With socialism it's forever, but at least everything is well amortized. With capitalism the lock in is as long as your debt is large. With either, as long as your asset's life-cycle is long.

[ktchong]

 

In a MEXICAN restaurant.

 

And, btw, he certainly spoke better English than the current First Lady, Melania Trump; she really should go tell Melania to GTFO of America.

 

The manager should have called the cops and tell that white woman to NOT ever go back to that restaurant.

Edited February 24, 2019 by ktchong

[SonicMage117]

Lol It reminded me of

[Gromnir]

the irish were treated like garbage.

 

the italians were treated like garbage.

 

the poles were treated like garbage.

 

etc.

 

cubans, mexicans and the new wave o' immigrants from africa?  treated like garbage.

 

maybe is a weird cultural hazing kinda thing.

 

warning: sweary

 

 

each group, after a few generations, gets to treat next group o' immigrants like... garbage.

 

and immigrants keep coming to the US, and they keep succeeding.  in spite o' misinformation, immigrants typical outwork natural born americans.  commit less crime too. 

 

...

 

perhaps ironic is native americans, original occupants, has been consistent treated like garbage.  never has gotten their fair shot at hazing the next guy.

 

HA! Good Fun!