Why is Naval combat so broken?

[Verde]

Incidentally, I'm playing on Veteran difficulty, and I've had no problems beating every enemy captain I've wanted to with my boarding strategy. Mind you, there have been a couple of ships I've stayed away from, because their crew has been well above my level.

Raise the difficulty to PotD and/or fight these other ships.

 

Naval combat isn't broken it's just not a major focus.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Verde

[xzar_monty]

 

Incidentally, I'm playing on Veteran difficulty, and I've had no problems beating every enemy captain I've wanted to with my boarding strategy. Mind you, there have been a couple of ships I've stayed away from, because their crew has been well above my level.

So the ship combat is too easy on the second to hardest difficulty, and you stayed away from some of the hardest ships?

 

I think the solutions are quite obvious - raise the difficult to PotD and/or fight these other ships. At this point it seems you're unreasonably frustrated with the game not catering to your every whim.

 

 

Where, exactly, did I say the combat is too easy? Where, exactly, did I say I am frustrated? Please, explain. It is really quite difficult to discuss stuff if you take a stance on something I have never even alluded to.

 

What I have said in this thread is that the naval combat is broken in the sense that other ships just disappear from the universe once boarded, i.e. they cannot be stolen in any way whatsoever. This is indisputable, as far as I'm concerned.

[Verde]

 

 

Incidentally, I'm playing on Veteran difficulty, and I've had no problems beating every enemy captain I've wanted to with my boarding strategy. Mind you, there have been a couple of ships I've stayed away from, because their crew has been well above my level.

So the ship combat is too easy on the second to hardest difficulty, and you stayed away from some of the hardest ships?

 

I think the solutions are quite obvious - raise the difficult to PotD and/or fight these other ships. At this point it seems you're unreasonably frustrated with the game not catering to your every whim.

Where, exactly, did I say the combat is too easy? Where, exactly, did I say I am frustrated? Please, explain. It is really quite difficult to discuss stuff if you take a stance on something I have never even alluded to.

 

What I have said in this thread is that the naval combat is broken in the sense that other ships just disappear from the universe once boarded, i.e. they cannot be stolen in any way whatsoever. This is indisputable, as far as I'm concerned.

You clearly and obviously implied that with the post I quoted. If not, what was the pt of it? And the tone of this entire thread is frustration. So yes, my post is 100% correct. Edited January 16, 2019 by Verde

[AeonsLegend]

So far the only post in this thread that expressed frustration is the OP and it is well understandable. I don't get any frustration from Xzars posts at all. I do get that from yours and I think it is unfounded.

 

Concerning the OP, I remember playing this game for the first time and not understanding naval combat and just losing to every ship because I couldn't hit them. The game doesn't explain how it works, you just have to figure it out by yourself. I finally did by just copying what the enemy ships did. They turn and then hold before firing. And voila, this increases your to hit chance by about 40-50%. Having experience with something obviously makes something easier. What we need to be aware of is that people that start off do not have this experience. And unlike games such as League of Legends I would like to believe that in this community we can treat eachother with enough respect to speak to eachother normally and actually help.

[xzar_monty]

Verde: I am sorry but the clear and obvious implication is only in your head, i.e. it does not exist. That kind of thing where you first erroneously infer something and then have the gall to claim you are 100% correct is quite dangerous, psychologically speaking. I really wouldn't do it. Here's the thing: I know what I mean, and I absolutely did not mean any of what you said. Please, have at least a modicum of common sense. For more evidence, look at AeonsLegend above. Thus, no more replies from me to you on this topic, there is simply no point.

 

And yes, as AeonsLegend says, for some reason the game often does a fairly bad job of explaining how stuff works. There are at least two or three abilities whose descriptions are self-contradictory. The game, as a whole, is great, in my opinion, but every once in a while the documentation/explanations leave rather a lot to be desired.

[Verde]

So you weren't implying ship combat was easy with your post about boarding on Veteran difficulty?

 

Also you're misusing the term broken. That sort of hyperbole can easily lead one to the conclusion you are frustrated and not willing to listen to critique or solutions. And based off your response I'm correct in that assumption as well.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Verde

[Wormerine]

@AeonsLegend: At what point (say, level) would you buy a new ship? And for what purpose, specifically?

 

I am very interested. I have played up to level 16, and I'm still using the original ship I have at the start of the game. I have not felt any need to invest in a better one, since I have won all my battles. My tactic is always the same: I never fire my cannons, I approach as quickly as possible and then board.

There is little need to upgrade your ship for ship to ship combat, if you are not doing ship to ship combat. 

 

If you were to use ship combat system, other ships pack more firepower - Galleon or Junk can disable enemy ship in a single volley. 

[xzar_monty]

 

@AeonsLegend: At what point (say, level) would you buy a new ship? And for what purpose, specifically?

 

I am very interested. I have played up to level 16, and I'm still using the original ship I have at the start of the game. I have not felt any need to invest in a better one, since I have won all my battles. My tactic is always the same: I never fire my cannons, I approach as quickly as possible and then board.

There is little need to upgrade your ship for ship to ship combat, if you are not doing ship to ship combat. 

 

If you were to use ship combat system, other ships pack more firepower - Galleon or Junk can disable enemy ship in a single volley. 

 

 

Incidentally, I just went to that guy in Neketaka who sells ships, and the prices are exorbitant. If you get the best possible ship and equip it as best you can, I wonder if you can make it work, financially. I suppose you can, the game is probably designed that way, but the prices are really something.

 

I'm at level 15, and I haven't seen that much extra money just lying around (which is good). For instance, there's a really good firearm available in the Brass Citadel, and even that is something you really have to save money for.

[thelee]

 

@AeonsLegend: At what point (say, level) would you buy a new ship? And for what purpose, specifically?

 

I am very interested. I have played up to level 16, and I'm still using the original ship I have at the start of the game. I have not felt any need to invest in a better one, since I have won all my battles. My tactic is always the same: I never fire my cannons, I approach as quickly as possible and then board.

There is little need to upgrade your ship for ship to ship combat, if you are not doing ship to ship combat. 

 

If you were to use ship combat system, other ships pack more firepower - Galleon or Junk can disable enemy ship in a single volley. 

 

 

random observation - with rymrgand's challenge (working on my second run with it on), even if you avoid ship-to-ship combat upgrading your ship for speed can be very useful, simply because some food ingredients spoil and getting to places faster means stretching them more. for example, with my travel speed completely kitted out on the fastest ship I can go from harbinger's watch to nekataka in a couple days or less, which is enough to stock/craft/rest for some food bonuses in harbinger's watch, and do some nekataka stuff while still having non-spoiled fish and roe and stuff for crafting or more resting if needed.

 

it's niche, but it's something for upgrading your ship even if you don't participate in ship combat.

 

(I could say somethign similar for Eothas, but if you're smart about it the time limits really don't matter enough to warrant upgrading your ship just for that.)

[thelee]

 

 

@AeonsLegend: At what point (say, level) would you buy a new ship? And for what purpose, specifically?

 

I am very interested. I have played up to level 16, and I'm still using the original ship I have at the start of the game. I have not felt any need to invest in a better one, since I have won all my battles. My tactic is always the same: I never fire my cannons, I approach as quickly as possible and then board.

There is little need to upgrade your ship for ship to ship combat, if you are not doing ship to ship combat. 

 

If you were to use ship combat system, other ships pack more firepower - Galleon or Junk can disable enemy ship in a single volley. 

 

 

Incidentally, I just went to that guy in Neketaka who sells ships, and the prices are exorbitant. If you get the best possible ship and equip it as best you can, I wonder if you can make it work, financially. I suppose you can, the game is probably designed that way, but the prices are really something.

 

I'm at level 15, and I haven't seen that much extra money just lying around (which is good). For instance, there's a really good firearm available in the Brass Citadel, and even that is something you really have to save money for.

 

 

eventually you can fight enemies that drop all sorts of superb gear which sells for $$$$. I've had a few games where I've fully loaded up the most expensive ship.

 

YMMV depending on how aggressively you pay money to craft or upgrade items, and whether or not you have some money-sink challenges enabled (Abydon and Rymrgand will cost you).

[AeonsLegend]

 

 

@AeonsLegend: At what point (say, level) would you buy a new ship? And for what purpose, specifically?

 

I am very interested. I have played up to level 16, and I'm still using the original ship I have at the start of the game. I have not felt any need to invest in a better one, since I have won all my battles. My tactic is always the same: I never fire my cannons, I approach as quickly as possible and then board.

There is little need to upgrade your ship for ship to ship combat, if you are not doing ship to ship combat. 

 

If you were to use ship combat system, other ships pack more firepower - Galleon or Junk can disable enemy ship in a single volley. 

 

 

Incidentally, I just went to that guy in Neketaka who sells ships, and the prices are exorbitant. If you get the best possible ship and equip it as best you can, I wonder if you can make it work, financially. I suppose you can, the game is probably designed that way, but the prices are really something.

 

I'm at level 15, and I haven't seen that much extra money just lying around (which is good). For instance, there's a really good firearm available in the Brass Citadel, and even that is something you really have to save money for.

 

Late game gear sells for so much that you will be swimming in money. In older patches the ships were really cheap and you could get enough money to buy a Junk before leaving Neketaka. So they changed that, which I think is for the better. Now I buy a Dhow and build up to something else later.

 

If you exit Neketaka on foot and complete all areas there are some Xaurips there that drop Superb and Exceptional gear. You should have about 30K just from those few encounters. There's many more such enounters in the game.

Edited January 16, 2019 by AeonsLegend

[InsaneCommander]

I think there is more money in the main quest line. I avoided it and the only time I was swimming in money was after I reached level 19. I had sunk every boat in the map long before that, so I never bothered buying another ship (although I had a Galleon since the time I could buy it).

[xzar_monty]

I think there is more money in the main quest line. I avoided it and the only time I was swimming in money was after I reached level 19. I had sunk every boat in the map long before that, so I never bothered buying another ship (although I had a Galleon since the time I could buy it).

 

Right. This could be what's going on in my game as well. I haven't really been involved with the main story line, and I'm definitely not swimming in money at level 15.

 

However, I do agree with a couple of posts above in the sense that once enemies start dropping superb gear, earnings go up by quite a lot.

[daven]

I kinda wish they scrapped the ship combat and did the sea monsters stretch goal instead.

 

Ah well, I haven't actually gone into ship combat that much maybe i'll try it out some more give it a chance.

[xzar_monty]

The main loading screen rather strongly suggests there are going to be big naval battles with legendary sea monsters, or at least one such battle with a very specific legendary sea monster. I haven't had it yet, but if it doesn't exist, I'll be disappointed.

[daven]

The main loading screen rather strongly suggests there are going to be big naval battles with legendary sea monsters, or at least one such battle with a very specific legendary sea monster. I haven't had it yet, but if it doesn't exist, I'll be disappointed.

Yeah it implies that you will encounter the Kraken at some point. I have no idea if it actually happens and don't want anyone to spoil it here!

[xzar_monty]

 

The main loading screen rather strongly suggests there are going to be big naval battles with legendary sea monsters, or at least one such battle with a very specific legendary sea monster. I haven't had it yet, but if it doesn't exist, I'll be disappointed.

Yeah it implies that you will encounter the Kraken at some point. I have no idea if it actually happens and don't want anyone to spoil it here!

 

 

I was very impressed by how the Beast of Winter loading screen played around with what happens in the DLC (there is no false information, but you may well be surprised), but I cannot see how the main loading screen could point to anything other than a sea battle with the Kraken.

[InsaneCommander]

The main loading screen rather strongly suggests there are going to be big naval battles with legendary sea monsters, or at least one such battle with a very specific legendary sea monster. I haven't had it yet, but if it doesn't exist, I'll be disappointed.

Yeah it implies that you will encounter the Kraken at some point. I have no idea if it actually happens and don't want anyone to spoil it here!

 

No spoilers here. I'll just say that when I started Deadfire I had that PoE1 book in mind (Monsters of the Deadfire Archipelago). The Polpovir looked particularly interesting.

[daven]

 

The main loading screen rather strongly suggests there are going to be big naval battles with legendary sea monsters, or at least one such battle with a very specific legendary sea monster. I haven't had it yet, but if it doesn't exist, I'll be disappointed.

Yeah it implies that you will encounter the Kraken at some point. I have no idea if it actually happens and don't want anyone to spoil it here!

 

No spoilers here. I'll just say that when I started Deadfire I had that PoE1 book in mind (Monsters of the Deadfire Archipelago). The Polpovir looked particularly interesting.

 

Yes, that was the most interesting book in the first game!

[Nssheepster]

 

If you blast them with your cannons enough, the ship sinks. You're TOLD that it sinks, and yet you still get loot.

 

As for capturing them.... You would need enough crew on YOUR ship to crew your current ship AND the new one, unless you wanted to sink your old ship. Since you don't actually have enough space to do that, unless you've already bought a Junk and are capturing a Voyager.....

Also, if anyone comes across you while you're swapping ships in the middle of the ocean, you're a sitting duck and totally unable to defend yourself. So it'd be a risk of an immediate death if you tried this insanity.

 

I'm not perfect on my history but I don't recall ship stealing really being a thing that went on mid-ocean, usually more in port....

 

As I said, I have never seen any mention of me sinking any ships. I have also never once fired my cannons, ever. There's no need.

 

Stealing ships at sea was something that actual pirates actually did, so your calling it insanity is not the brightest thing.

 

The fact that enemy ships simply disappear from the universe after boarding is a broken feature in the game, and the only reasonable option is just to let it lie, as it won't be changed.

 

 

So...You've only interacted with PART of the Naval Combat system, and you're commenting here? Not sure you really have enough perspective then.

 

As I said, unless you either ditch your ship, or have double crew, you can't steal a ship... I suspect any stories you've heard of pirates stealing ships involve one or the other. BOTH of which can't really be done in game, making your point totally moot outside of very specific circumstances as I already mentioned.

 

The fact that enemy ships dissapear is because you killed literally everyone on them when you boarded, so with no one to guide it, it will eventually run into a storm or sea formation and sink... Just like a real ship would if it had no crew and was left adrift in the ocean. It'll eventually hit something and go down. There's no real option to board and NOT kill everyone, so.... Outside the Fonferuss, Ghost Ships just aren't happening in Deadfire. Sorry for that added realism.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Since this seems to be the active ship combat discussion thread --

 

Has anyone noticed differences in ship loot from prior patches? I can't seem to find Vailian Hullbreakers in loot from anything any more, even the vailian ships I used to get them from, and even when boarding all the way for max loot.

[xzar_monty]

 

 

If you blast them with your cannons enough, the ship sinks. You're TOLD that it sinks, and yet you still get loot.

 

As for capturing them.... You would need enough crew on YOUR ship to crew your current ship AND the new one, unless you wanted to sink your old ship. Since you don't actually have enough space to do that, unless you've already bought a Junk and are capturing a Voyager.....

Also, if anyone comes across you while you're swapping ships in the middle of the ocean, you're a sitting duck and totally unable to defend yourself. So it'd be a risk of an immediate death if you tried this insanity.

 

I'm not perfect on my history but I don't recall ship stealing really being a thing that went on mid-ocean, usually more in port....

 

As I said, I have never seen any mention of me sinking any ships. I have also never once fired my cannons, ever. There's no need.

 

Stealing ships at sea was something that actual pirates actually did, so your calling it insanity is not the brightest thing.

 

The fact that enemy ships simply disappear from the universe after boarding is a broken feature in the game, and the only reasonable option is just to let it lie, as it won't be changed.

 

 

So...You've only interacted with PART of the Naval Combat system, and you're commenting here? Not sure you really have enough perspective then.

 

As I said, unless you either ditch your ship, or have double crew, you can't steal a ship... I suspect any stories you've heard of pirates stealing ships involve one or the other. BOTH of which can't really be done in game, making your point totally moot outside of very specific circumstances as I already mentioned.

 

The fact that enemy ships dissapear is because you killed literally everyone on them when you boarded, so with no one to guide it, it will eventually run into a storm or sea formation and sink... Just like a real ship would if it had no crew and was left adrift in the ocean. It'll eventually hit something and go down. There's no real option to board and NOT kill everyone, so.... Outside the Fonferuss, Ghost Ships just aren't happening in Deadfire. Sorry for that added realism.

 

 

I hate to say this so bluntly, but your arguments are worthless to the extent that you're not even clutching at straws.

 

It is true that I have only interacted with a part of the naval combat system, i.e. I have only boarded ships, never shot at them. However, if I had interacted with the other part (i.e. shot at other ships with my cannons), it would make no difference to what we're talking about now, because the only thing that that kind of combat can do is increase the likelihood of the enemy ship sinking (which would make it impossible to capture said ship). There is no way it can decrease it. So, it's irrelevant to what I'm talking about.

 

Let's dissect some of what you're saying:

 

1) You don't need *double* crew. As you should have noticed, different ships require different amounts of crew, and you can have some extra crew on board. There are plenty of opportunities to have enough extra crew to be able to manage a change of ships. Especially if you eventually leave you previous ship behind, which is a perfectly reasonable option -- except that the game doesn't allow it.

2) Yes, an unmanned ship will eventually run into trouble and probably sink. But the operative word here is "eventually", and it completely takes the ground away from under your point. We're not talking about "eventually". "Eventually" has no bearing here. We're talking about a situation where you've just boarded a ship and are perfectly equipped to take it as your own.

 

My original point remains: naval combat is broken to the extent that you cannot acquire new ships by boarding them and wringing them from the cold, dead hands of their previous owners. It is also somewhat unfortunate that after a boarding situation, the other ship simply disappears from the game universe -- it looks clumsy, feels unrealistic and doesn't really win the game any marks. The first time it happened, I had a bit of a WTF reaction, as it was such a negative surprise, but more recently it's become a ho-hum kind of thing.

 

Now, this is not a big issue, and it doesn't ruin anything, but it does render naval combat less interesting than it could be. I am almost certain that this blemish on naval combat is a result of the question discussed before: Obsidian had bigger and better plans, but for one reason or another (was it lack of time?), only some of them were implemented in the game. I'm actually fine with it -- I only wish it had been better.

[Verde]

-> says naval combat is broken

-> has only experienced a portion of naval combat

 

Shooting at a ship addresses your complaints about why you can't steal a ship or why it disappears.

Edited January 19, 2019 by Verde

[Nssheepster]

At this point he's actively ignoring large portions of my reply in order to make an argument for a game feature we're never getting that really wouldn't have added to the game at all. If anything, it would have detracted in some ways. Shrug. Some people are just like that.

[Verde]

At this point he's actively ignoring large portions of my reply in order to make an argument for a game feature we're never getting that really wouldn't have added to the game at all. If anything, it would have detracted in some ways. Shrug. Some people are just like that.

Yeah I made my last pt and gonna walk away from this shipwreck (ha) of a thread.