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Are the Huana the worst? [spoilers]

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Huana play the victim's card - they hate other factions but need em anyway. Remember, it was their stubborn, foolish King who let Thaos and Co. in.

Edited by Verde

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Huana play the victim's card - they hate other factions but need em anyway. Remember, it was their stubborn, foolish King who let Thaos and Co. in.

engwithan also have od nua

it seems like a theme with the poe

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The fact that my Watcher is no God to decide which nation should live and which should die?

The game places you in that position. You can decide about the fate of the Huana, God or no. Not choosing is just an abandonment of responsibility and an instigation of the rule of chaos.

 

The game only present you a situation. What your character is doing in that situation - is up to your character (in a good game. And PoE 2 IS good).

Should I come across a "red button" starting a nuclear war in real life, I would not try to push it, just because I've got an opportunity.

 

 

Are you sure you played POE1? Because catacombs, graveyards, castles and even streets were very impressive dead-bodies-wise. Remember that lovely tree in Gilded Vale?

 

All nations - without exception - had in the past a stage with horrible mistreating of the citizens. Huana is in transition to the better society right now, if other nations will not destroy them. I can only wish them luck and help with what I can.

 

Btw, those "piles of bodies" ARE the criminals (by Huana laws) and - logically - result of bandits rule over Gullet (we can thank Principi for that).

Not so impressive as rotting piles of bodies beneath Neketaka. Catacombs and graveyards were, at least in part, old. And the tree? How many kith were there? And it was a desperate situation caused by crisis-induced madness of a local nobleman. Not an expected product of a deliberately implemented social system.

 

Also, why the roparu most likely turn to crime? Because they aren't very inclined to eat gooy, fun snacks from a pile of refuse provided for them by the higher castes. Do you really think this is justice and is this an alluring circumstance for you that promises the brighter future? I think not. I think it demonstrates that the Huana stick to rigid, morderous traditions. Even inspector Javert sentenced Valjean (for stealing because of starvation) to hard labor and not straight to his death, off as another corpse on one of many piles beneath the city. And Paris has an impressive system of canals, as Victor Hugo would tell you. Many corpses would fit there.

 

And again, totally ignoring the stage of the society here. Having one mad ruler allowed to kill so many people (really? you are comparing numbers?! How many is OK for you to have killed on a regular basis?) - is a shame for Deerwoodians. Being that socially evolved, yet killing, experimenting on people, tolerating murders and so on - inexcusable. Huana only began their journey. And already you are able to explain to them necessity of changes. They are changing their ways (and faster with your help) instead of flat refusing. That is far from "rigid". No other nation is even thinking about changes.

 

But I am preaching to a deaf ear if you compare dramatic background of a "dead city" in the game to the catacombs of a real city with a writer as a solid source of information.

 

 

Huana is the only nation we can see "at home" - the rest are foreigners here (including Watcher).

 

and so we come full circle, eh?

 

"am thinking folks is reflexive sympathetic towards real world indigenous peoples"

 

thanks.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

How come "the only one we see at home" equals "you are sympathetic to the real world indigenous peoples"? What I meant is, dead bodies count and horrors of other societies in their homes are not so obvious to paint them all white. Though their behavior in Deadfire does not make them look good.

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Huana play the victim's card - they hate other factions but need em anyway. Remember, it was their stubborn, foolish King who let Thaos and Co. in.

 

Loved that part of SSS when we learn what happened in the Deadfire. Maybe they were better at governing themselves back them.


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Huana play the victim's card - they hate other factions but need em anyway. Remember, it was their stubborn, foolish King who let Thaos and Co. in.

Loved that part of SSS when we learn what happened in the Deadfire. Maybe they were better at governing themselves back them.

Ah I didn't play :/ mind spoiling it for me?

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Huana play the victim's card - they hate other factions but need em anyway. Remember, it was their stubborn, foolish King who let Thaos and Co. in.

Loved that part of SSS when we learn what happened in the Deadfire. Maybe they were better at governing themselves back them.

Ah I didn't play :/ mind spoiling it for me?

 

 

 

You can do the watcher trick and see memories from the time the Wheel was created. The Engwithans were very careful to convince the Huana's ancestors to allow them to build in Ukaizo, but without revealing the consequences. I don't remember if they knew the cataclysm would happen though.

 

 


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Huana play the victim's card - they hate other factions but need em anyway. Remember, it was their stubborn, foolish King who let Thaos and Co. in.

Loved that part of SSS when we learn what happened in the Deadfire. Maybe they were better at governing themselves back them.

Ah I didn't play :/ mind spoiling it for me?

 

 

 

You can do the watcher trick and see memories from the time the Wheel was created. The Engwithans were very careful to convince the Huana's ancestors to allow them to build in Ukaizo, but without revealing the consequences. I don't remember if they knew the cataclysm would happen though.

 

 

 

 

Isn't that from The Beast of Winter though?

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Huana play the victim's card - they hate other factions but need em anyway. Remember, it was their stubborn, foolish King who let Thaos and Co. in.

Loved that part of SSS when we learn what happened in the Deadfire. Maybe they were better at governing themselves back them.

Ah I didn't play :/ mind spoiling it for me?

 

 

 

You can do the watcher trick and see memories from the time the Wheel was created. The Engwithans were very careful to convince the Huana's ancestors to allow them to build in Ukaizo, but without revealing the consequences. I don't remember if they knew the cataclysm would happen though.

 

 

 

 

Isn't that from The Beast of Winter though?

 

No, it's from SSS.

 

 

 

One of the faces, Aexica I believe, once was one of the Engwithans in Ukaizo.

 

 

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Not so impressive as rotting piles of bodies beneath Neketaka. Catacombs and graveyards were, at least in part, old.

The Defiance Bay riots that have hordes of bloodthirsty Dyrwoodans take to the streets murdering animancers left and right come to mind. Or Readceran fanaticism. Or arbitrary abductions by the Steel Garrote. Or... You're taking an example of the Huana extant governance struggling to scale up as evidence that the system is unfixable.

 

I'm not a big fan of the Huana caste system, but the broader point here is that the Huana can and will change if they gain access to Ukaizo, their long-lost heritage denied them by Engwithans.

 

And the tree? How many kith were there? And it was a desperate situation caused by crisis-induced madness of a local nobleman. Not an expected product of a deliberately implemented social system.

That's an excuse if I ever saw one. You're ignoring the fact that this was a an example of a deliberately implemented social system at work, i.e. a local noble ruler preying on the local population with no oversight. It's a fundamental flaw with Dyrwoodan society and governance. Another flaw is the fact that your claim to Caed Nua can be contested by another noble leading to a full-out battle.

 

What happens at Neketaka is not the expected product, because you can (and should) fix it. It's a bug, not a feature. If you want to dismiss it, sure, but then you have to dismiss every society in existence, fictional or otherwise.

 

Also, why the roparu most likely turn to crime? Because they aren't very inclined to eat gooy, fun snacks from a pile of refuse provided for them by the higher castes. Do you really think this is justice and is this an alluring circumstance for you that promises the brighter future? I think not. I think it demonstrates that the Huana stick to rigid, morderous traditions. Even inspector Javert sentenced Valjean (for stealing because of starvation) to hard labor and not straight to his death, off as another corpse on one of many piles beneath the city. And Paris has an impressive system of canals, as Victor Hugo would tell you. Many corpses would fit there.

Note that most of the Mataru and Kuaru aren't even aware of the situation down in the Gullet. Tekehu is a fine example of this ignorance - and ignorance breeds neglect.

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[ The Vault ] [ The Wasteland Wiki ] [ Pillars of Eternity Wiki ] [ Tyranny Wiki ]


 


My, that's a whole lot of wikis!


Why, thank you, I love them.

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I'd say Huana are the best in terms of 1) endings, 2) theorycrafting, and 3) unsavory things they make you do in game in support of their endings.  If you support RDC, but then refuse to kill the queen, which is unsavory, they attack you.  Queen doesn't make you do anything bad at that point.  Everyone else wants you to kill people or blow stuff up.  In terms of endings, pirates are obviously out.  Can't get behind RDC militancy.  Valians might be okay, second best probably, but they support a lot of ugly stuff and will clearly exploit/abandon the area.  Huana have best claim to the region and the caste system is obviously bad, but its their religion/culture.  They needed that as to not be the slam dunk best choice that the developers obviously wanted to avoid.  I can see some people might put Valians first, although I disagree, but no way Huana are last.    

Edited by ilsendoodle
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I'd say Huana are the best in terms of 1) endings, 2) theorycrafting, and 3) unsavory things they make you do in game in support of their endings.  If you support RDC, but then refuse to kill the queen, which is unsavory, they attack you.  Queen doesn't make you do anything bad at that point.  Everyone else wants you to kill people or blow stuff up.  In terms of endings, pirates are obviously out.  Can't get behind RDC militancy.  Valians might be okay, second best probably, but they support a lot of ugly stuff and will clearly exploit/abandon the area.  Huana have best claim to the region and the caste system is obviously bad, but its their religion/culture.  They needed that as to not be the slam dunk best choice that the developers obviously wanted to avoid.  I can see some people might put Valians first, although I disagree, but no way Huana are last.    

the same refuse assassin queen trick work on vtc too

and castol are the only ending choice can compare with huana

but the sell soul thing and the fact castol are not one of the big shareholder make this choice very unstable

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I think the only unredeemable faction is the pirate one. I mean, all they want is either to sow chaos or to enslave. Nothing productive or good can come out of it.

 

The other three factions could all be okay with some reforms, changes here and there. I personally think Rautai is the least evil of them all. Naturally, they are far from perfect, they are highly imperialistic, but they bring order, security and trade. The Vailians also improve on order, security and economy, but their main goal seems to be exploiting the Huana lands. The Huana have backwards traditions that halts any kind of meaningful progress, and the ruling tribe (Kahanga) seems really oppressive towards their own lower caste, not to mention a caste system is extremely backwards on its own.

 

So for me, in a best-to-worst order, right now:

1. RDC

2. Kahanga

3. VTC

4. Pirates

Edited by Vaneglorious

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I think the only unredeemable faction is the pirate one. I mean, all they want is either to sow chaos or to enslave. Nothing productive or good can come out of it.

 

The other three factions could all be okay with some reforms, changes here and there. I personally think Rautai is the least evil of them all. Naturally, they are far from perfect, they are highly imperialistic, but they bring order, security and trade. The Vailians also improve on order, security and economy, but their main goal seems to be exploiting the Huana lands. The Huana have backwards traditions that halts any kind of meaningful progress, and the ruling tribe (Kahanga) seems really oppressive towards their own lower caste, not to mention a caste system is extremely backwards on its own.

 

So for me, in a best-to-worst order, right now:

1. RDC

2. Kahanga

3. VTC

4. Pirates

 

I would rate VTC above the Kahanga because of the animancy. I consider the prospect of scientific progress very promising, giving hope for better understanding of the life itself and for dethroning the Eoran pantheon. I'm aware however that animancy can be used for evil, like in the case of Engwithians.

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I think the Pirates are the best written and most interesting by far, but I agree it's hard to side with chaos haha.

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I think the Pirates are the best written and most interesting by far, but I agree it's hard to side with chaos haha.

pirates have fun

and indeed are interestingly written

which was surprisingly hard base on other pirate theme game

hope all the effort put in vailian will pay off if poe3 are set in old vailia

Edited by uuuhhii
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Sorry for this thread necro, but it's an interesting topic and I am starting a new run through and trying to decide which faction to choose.  (Chose the RDC in my first run when the base game was released.)

 

As for the primary question, are the Huana the worst faction, I don't think so.  I think that the Pirates are, if one bases "worst" on which faction produces the overall worst outcome.

 

Let's also remember that none of the factions are pure as the driven snow.  They all have their faults, as the developers intended.  And as for faction choice, there is no easy answer.  The choice is all about trade-offs, and possibly some role-playing.   In fact, I suppose one could say that making the decision based on role playing the Watcher's home culture might be the easy way out.  After all, if you're from the Deadfire and you're a Raider, your Watcher might have a natural inclination to side with the Pirates, regardless of the player's own personal feelings.  Or a Ruautian Watcher might side with the RDC for the same reason.  An Old Valian Watcher might also side with the Pirates.  Or a Deadfire Watcher might be Huana and thus side with the Huana.  And so on.  

 

Of course, as a player when you're creating this Watcher, you might be making the faction decision in your head and deciding on a culture and background that will allow you to roleplay the decision. 

 

Back to the factions and their faults, if you're making the decision separate from a role-playing choice, it really is about trade-offs.   It's about looking at the pros and cons and balancing them all out to see what best fits what you can accept.

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The huana rulling caste is the worst. There should be an option to depose the queen and lead a ronparu uprising.

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I'm thankful for the discussion in this thread, as I am planning to do a much fuller (and less rushed) replay of PoE1 and 2 - and I was curious what faction to actually support once I hit Deadfire again.

 

I did not support any faction on my initial playthrough... and thus the ending where the Deadfire slowly descends into chaos left a bad taste in my mouth. I was more concerned with finishing the game and seeing the endings for my companions, than allying with any one faction. All of them had major flaws I couldn't reasonably condone, but I also did not do many quests for the factions to begin with. I am trying to keep Deadfire and its decision options in mind as I plan my next playthrough. It may help me to not make a Watcher who is so benevolent and uncertain that she allows chaos to reign just because she doesn't feel able to make a decision for so many people. 

 

The Huana caste system was one of the major things about them that bothered me, and was what prevented me from fully supporting them. The political assassinations of the RDC, however, shocked and appalled me. Vailians seemed too concerned with coin above all, and pirates are... well. Pirates. All of the factions are severely flawed, but after reading through this thread, I feel I have a better grasp of the pros and cons of each than I did on my initial run through.

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Onekaza is a treacherous snake.

Huana are a bunch of isolationist bigots.

Their caste system is a road to nowhere.

Their "art" of watershaping is a lie, and probably violates some animal rights.

So yes, they are the worst.

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I'm thankful for the discussion in this thread, as I am planning to do a much fuller (and less rushed) replay of PoE1 and 2 - and I was curious what faction to actually support once I hit Deadfire again.

 

I did not support any faction on my initial playthrough... and thus the ending where the Deadfire slowly descends into chaos left a bad taste in my mouth. I was more concerned with finishing the game and seeing the endings for my companions, than allying with any one faction. All of them had major flaws I couldn't reasonably condone, but I also did not do many quests for the factions to begin with. I am trying to keep Deadfire and its decision options in mind as I plan my next playthrough. It may help me to not make a Watcher who is so benevolent and uncertain that she allows chaos to reign just because she doesn't feel able to make a decision for so many people. 

 

The Huana caste system was one of the major things about them that bothered me, and was what prevented me from fully supporting them. The political assassinations of the RDC, however, shocked and appalled me. Vailians seemed too concerned with coin above all, and pirates are... well. Pirates. All of the factions are severely flawed, but after reading through this thread, I feel I have a better grasp of the pros and cons of each than I did on my initial run through.

 

For what little it's worth, as much as the RDC's usage of assassination and conquest doesn't sit well (and shouldn't), I still get the sense that they may be the group that wants the best for the most people.  OTOH, the Huana are essentially just defending their traditional caste system which doesn't necessarily help the most people.  And the VTC seems more interested in making money with a side of promoting animancy (which might help people in the long run, I suppose).  Oh, and the Principi are mostly just looking out for themselves, though it's nice that Captain Aldys is opposed to slavery, which takes a bit of the edge off the rest of the pro-piracy stuff... sorta.  

 

It's a bit of a shame that there was no way to try to get all of them, or even a couple of the groups, to work together for the greater good.  But I suppose that would have gone against the narrative that this story (apart from the parts of the story relating to the gods) is sort of a historical parallel to Earth, around the 1600's or 1700's or so.  And the groups/nations just didn't see a single reason to be trying to work out their issues or work together.  And having this single nearly superheroic Watcher come along to solve all of the Deadfire's problems in a way that makes most everyone happy is probably expecting too much from a semi-realistic point of view.  Hey, in a truly fictional setting, sure, you could have the superhero Watcher come along and wave his or her magic wand and make everything right, but the devs on PoE seem to prefer somewhat more gritty, (sort of) realistic story telling, at least on this sort of thing.

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Late to the party, but the discussion is interesting enough to want ot chime in on this thread necro
 

 

I'm thankful for the discussion in this thread, as I am planning to do a much fuller (and less rushed) replay of PoE1 and 2 - and I was curious what faction to actually support once I hit Deadfire again.
 
I did not support any faction on my initial playthrough... and thus the ending where the Deadfire slowly descends into chaos left a bad taste in my mouth. I was more concerned with finishing the game and seeing the endings for my companions, than allying with any one faction. All of them had major flaws I couldn't reasonably condone, but I also did not do many quests for the factions to begin with. I am trying to keep Deadfire and its decision options in mind as I plan my next playthrough. It may help me to not make a Watcher who is so benevolent and uncertain that she allows chaos to reign just because she doesn't feel able to make a decision for so many people. 
 
The Huana caste system was one of the major things about them that bothered me, and was what prevented me from fully supporting them. The political assassinations of the RDC, however, shocked and appalled me. Vailians seemed too concerned with coin above all, and pirates are... well. Pirates. All of the factions are severely flawed, but after reading through this thread, I feel I have a better grasp of the pros and cons of each than I did on my initial run through.

 
For what little it's worth, as much as the RDC's usage of assassination and conquest doesn't sit well (and shouldn't), I still get the sense that they may be the group that wants the best for the most people.

 


Utilitaranism as a moral ethic has its limits. Especially since how the RDC defines "most people" is exclusively nationalistic: e.g. they only want what's good for Rautaians, and not even Huana, who they are basically kin with but deem an uncultured mass of savages that needs to be rescued from itself. (I fully expect in their society to see a poem entitled "The Rautaian Aumauan's Burden").
 

OTOH, the Huana are essentially just defending their traditional caste system which doesn't necessarily help the most people.  And the VTC seems more interested in making money with a side of promoting animancy (which might help people in the long run, I suppose).


At least the Valians are meritocratic in the sense that if you are effective at political intrigue and can make the VTC a lot of money you can do well. Rautaians kinda also (in a militaristic sense) but they are nationalists first, whereas I get the feeling the VTC ultimately only care if you can make them money.
 

Oh, and the Principi are mostly just looking out for themselves, though it's nice that Captain Aldys is opposed to slavery, which takes a bit of the edge off the rest of the pro-piracy stuff... sorta.

 
There's an interesting dynamic there. The old guard of Principi are basically pirates out of necessity and have a shared sense of purpose and culture, so one could argue that they are the "better" part of the principi since they aren't just greedy looters. But then they also support slavery. Meanwhile, Aeldys hates slavery but definitely encompasses the more Joker-esque "just wants to watch the world burn"-type piracy.
 

It's a bit of a shame that there was no way to try to get all of them, or even a couple of the groups, to work together for the greater good.  But I suppose that would have gone against the narrative that this story (apart from the parts of the story relating to the gods) is sort of a historical parallel to Earth, around the 1600's or 1700's or so.  And the groups/nations just didn't see a single reason to be trying to work out their issues or work together.  And having this single nearly superheroic Watcher come along to solve all of the Deadfire's problems in a way that makes most everyone happy is probably expecting too much from a semi-realistic point of view.  Hey, in a truly fictional setting, sure, you could have the superhero Watcher come along and wave his or her magic wand and make everything right, but the devs on PoE seem to prefer somewhat more gritty, (sort of) realistic story telling, at least on this sort of thing.


Ultimately I don't think any faction is supposed to be "good". They just... are. I think threads like this show that there are things people will try to highlight as beneficent about a particular faction, or other things that are just repugnant. So while I have my capital-o Opinions about my favorite faction, I think it's great that it's set up that basically anyone can justify siding with a particular faction, or no faction at all -- in this respect I think Obsidian did a way better job than F:NV where it was pretty hard to view Caesar's Legion as anything other than the traditional bad guys.

Edited by thelee
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For what little it's worth, as much as the RDC's usage of assassination and conquest doesn't sit well (and shouldn't), I still get the sense that they may be the group that wants the best for the most people.  OTOH, the Huana are essentially just defending their traditional caste system which doesn't necessarily help the most people.  And the VTC seems more interested in making money with a side of promoting animancy (which might help people in the long run, I suppose).  Oh, and the Principi are mostly just looking out for themselves, though it's nice that Captain Aldys is opposed to slavery, which takes a bit of the edge off the rest of the pro-piracy stuff... sorta.  

 

Those were all unfortunately the reasons I could not side with the other factions, either. At least not without compromising both my, and my first Watcher's, morality. While the RDC may come off as wanting the "best" for the most people, @thelee hit it well in that:

 

Utilitaranism as a moral ethic has its limits. Especially since how the RDC defines "most people" is exclusively nationalistic: e.g. they only want what's good for Rautaians

 

In the end, I believe all the factions truly are only looking out for themselves and their interests - what sets them apart is how much potential there can be for growth, and the betterment of the entire Deadfire as a result of that growth.

 

I feel the Huana may have the most potential for this growth, with the Principi a close second. VTC cares too much about money, though it is unfortunate the sciences and research of animancy are tied up so intimately with them (my Watcher supported animancy in PoE1, despite the multitude of problems it had). The RDC does not offer much opportunity for change and betterment, at least not outside the scope of Rauataians > everyone. Though all of this is from the viewpoint of someone who did not push many of the faction quests, and who in the end chose no one. Perhaps my opinions of them may be a bit different, had I grown more familiar with the companies through their various tasks and stories. As it was, I think I only pushed the Huana story above any others. 

 

All I know is I really did not like the utter chaos that descends on the Deadfire if you choose no one to help. Huana are no more perfect than the others, but I suppose in the end - it comes down to how much potential one sees in a faction, and which faction most closely aligns or garners the empathy of a particular Watcher.

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For what little it's worth, as much as the RDC's usage of assassination and conquest doesn't sit well (and shouldn't), I still get the sense that they may be the group that wants the best for the most people.  OTOH, the Huana are essentially just defending their traditional caste system which doesn't necessarily help the most people.  And the VTC seems more interested in making money with a side of promoting animancy (which might help people in the long run, I suppose).  Oh, and the Principi are mostly just looking out for themselves, though it's nice that Captain Aldys is opposed to slavery, which takes a bit of the edge off the rest of the pro-piracy stuff... sorta.  

 

Those were all unfortunately the reasons I could not side with the other factions, either. At least not without compromising both my, and my first Watcher's, morality. While the RDC may come off as wanting the "best" for the most people, @thelee hit it well in that:

 

Utilitaranism as a moral ethic has its limits. Especially since how the RDC defines "most people" is exclusively nationalistic: e.g. they only want what's good for Rautaians

 

In the end, I believe all the factions truly are only looking out for themselves and their interests - what sets them apart is how much potential there can be for growth, and the betterment of the entire Deadfire as a result of that growth.

 

I feel the Huana may have the most potential for this growth, with the Principi a close second. VTC cares too much about money, though it is unfortunate the sciences and research of animancy are tied up so intimately with them (my Watcher supported animancy in PoE1, despite the multitude of problems it had). The RDC does not offer much opportunity for change and betterment, at least not outside the scope of Rauataians > everyone. Though all of this is from the viewpoint of someone who did not push many of the faction quests, and who in the end chose no one. Perhaps my opinions of them may be a bit different, had I grown more familiar with the companies through their various tasks and stories. As it was, I think I only pushed the Huana story above any others. 

 

All I know is I really did not like the utter chaos that descends on the Deadfire if you choose no one to help. Huana are no more perfect than the others, but I suppose in the end - it comes down to how much potential one sees in a faction, and which faction most closely aligns or garners the empathy of a particular Watcher.

 

 

MarbleNest, for what it's worth, I don't really agree with thelee's assessment in that last quote.  Yes, the Ruatians are nationalistic, and yet I get the feeling that they're quite willing to accept others into whatever it means to be a "Ruatian".  Now, maybe that just makes them "generous conquerors" or however one would want to put it.  And I'm absolutely not saying that they're perfect angels.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think that when I say "most people", I really mean that I think that they do want things to be better for "most people".  Of course, that probably also means that those "most people" need to come under the umbrella of Ruatai and their definition of "better" might be very different from how others would define it.  Let's just say that, for all their faults, I think that they mean well.

 

I'm not exactly sure that the Huana mean well, when I see them systematically oppressing a group of their people, the Roparu (?) in the name of their traditional cast system.  Do they have the potential to grow out of that?  I think we'd all like to think "yes", but I'm not so sure.  Caste systems historically seem very difficult to break, I think.  And a conqueror might find it easier to break the Huana caste system rather than the Huana doing it themselves.

 

 

Regardless, it's a very interesting thing to think about and discuss.  And I agree with the final sentence above.

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