Avoiding Instant Death on Ship

[Titus_Draconius]

Hello! 

 

I am a wizard. I tried to board a ship. The following happened:

 

1. The game completely changed my marching order, placing me on the front.

 

2. The first second of combat, every single member of the enemy crew proceeded to target only my wizard.

 

3. Death scene from bonnie and clyde (1967)

 

4. After a few reloads I managed to preemptively heal my wizard and through a complicated series of manoeuvers succeeded to hide him in a place with less LoS. 

 

5. Every single member of the enemy crew proceeded to target only my wizard, ignoring everybody else and eating opportunity attacks from my front-liners. (thus my wizard becomes a sad and bloody chum bucket in the corner by the stairs.)

 

So what should be the strategy here? Over-level every other ship and then overpower them? I tried the cleric isolation spell. It worked to save my wizard's life, but I rely on him to do damage, so by the time it runs out everyone's dead. Buy min maxed npcs from taverns and pirate with them instead? Just avoid pirating with a wizard pc? I mean I remember bathing in the blood of my enemies in my paladin play-through. 

 

Any build and strategy help or even exploit of AI or mechanics is appreciated - because seriously this situation deserves it I think.

 

This is on veteran difficulty btw, not even in PotD. Many people must have managed this, so obviously I must be missing something.

 

Thanks & have a good day!

 

 

 

 

[Gromnir]

the ship boarding equation sucks, particular for lower level and squishy pcs.  our first play through were a helwalker contemplative.  freaking nightmare to always be in the vanguard during ship boarding.  

 

over-level is best bet if you are gonna do ship boarding, but am gonna suggest changing the equation itself is your best option.  ship-to-ship combat provides more xp than boarding. is equal numbers o' folks who has tested ship-to-ship v. boarding and there is a split o' opinion regarding which exercise provides more 1007.  am increasing convinced the only difference is perception.  there is an element o' randomness in ship 1007 rewards, and from relative limited sample sizes, people is drawing unsupported conclusions.  regardless, ship-to-ship combat ignores difficulty slider changes.  ship-to-ship combat is no more difficult on easiest difficulty than potd.  in fact, ship combat ignores character level and abilities save for ship-specific ranks. 

 

if you are playing a squishy doing ship boarding, overlevel... or avoid boarding altogether.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Titus_Draconius]

the ship boarding equation sucks, particular for lower level and squishy pcs.  our first play through were a helwalker contemplative.  freaking nightmare to always be in the vanguard during ship boarding.  

 

over-level is best bet if you are gonna do ship boarding, but am gonna suggest changing the equation itself is your best option.  ship-to-ship combat provides more xp than boarding. is equal numbers o' folks who has tested ship-to-ship v. boarding and there is a split o' opinion regarding which exercise provides more 1007.  am increasing convinced the only difference is perception.  there is an element o' randomness in ship 1007 rewards, and from relative limited sample sizes, people is drawing unsupported conclusions.  regardless, ship-to-ship combat ignores difficulty slider changes.  ship-to-ship combat is no more difficult on easiest difficulty than potd.  in fact, ship combat ignores character level and abilities save for ship-specific ranks. 

 

if you are playing a squishy doing ship boarding, overlevel... or avoid boarding altogether.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ah ok, before I never considered ship combat a possibility actually, because: 

 

a) I didn't like the mechanics / approach as much. 

 

b) since in my earlier play-through I got so much loot from intimately murdering everybody in person, didn't imagine I could approach that level of material gain. 

 

Interesting I will look into that.  

[Takkik]

I still don't understand why they didn't introduced something simple as spawning your characters with your formation.

[Titus_Draconius]

I still don't understand why they didn't introduced something simple as spawning your characters with your formation.

well...yeah...I mean if the player gets boarded then sure, then there could be an element of chaos I suppose. Even then it should take a while to get boarded I imagine, with the enemy ship getting closer and everybody should see it coming at that point. Honestly I don't know why the formation gets shuffled like that. 

[Gromnir]

 

I still don't understand why they didn't introduced something simple as spawning your characters with your formation.

well...yeah...I mean if the player gets boarded then sure, then there could be an element of chaos I suppose. Even then it should take a while to get boarded I imagine, with the enemy ship getting closer and everybody should see it coming at that point. Honestly I don't know why the formation gets shuffled like that. 

 

am suspecting is a basic ship mechanics or dialogue issue.  after ship dialogues with gods, your formation is changed.  poe had a number o' similar encounters.  skaven under-temple forced dialogue would alter party formation and at least one dragon encounter did similar.  forced formation shift is literal the first thing we complained 'bout when ship boarding were implemented.  no traction.

 

in any event, ship-to-ship combat is actual a bit exploitive. you are able to engage in ship combat as soon as you leave port maje waters and neither the difficulty slider nor the enemy ship level limit your chances o' success.  sub level ten player will be able to reduced named ship captain population o' deadfire waters to zero, resulting in much unique and superb gear becoming available for your lower level character, as well as providing much experience via ship bounties.  do all ship bounties and start nekataka at level 10-11 and with superb gear... and have a nice bit o' money too.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited December 16, 2018 by Gromnir

[Frog Man]

Can anyone provide tips on sinking ships? I hear the benefits but I’m a terrible captain!

[Titus_Draconius]

 

 

I still don't understand why they didn't introduced something simple as spawning your characters with your formation.

well...yeah...I mean if the player gets boarded then sure, then there could be an element of chaos I suppose. Even then it should take a while to get boarded I imagine, with the enemy ship getting closer and everybody should see it coming at that point. Honestly I don't know why the formation gets shuffled like that. 

 

am suspecting is a basic ship mechanics or dialogue issue.  after ship dialogues with gods, your formation is changed.  poe had a number o' similar encounters.  skaven under-temple forced dialogue would alter party formation and at least one dragon encounter did similar.  forced formation shift is literal the first thing we complained 'bout when ship boarding were implemented.  no traction.

 

in any event, ship-to-ship combat is actual a bit exploitive. you are able to engage in ship combat as soon as you leave port maje waters and neither the difficulty slider nor the enemy ship level limit your chances o' success.  sub level ten player will be able to reduced named ship captain population o' deadfire waters to zero, resulting in much unique and superb gear becoming available for your lower level character, as well as providing much experience via ship bounties.  do all ship bounties and start nekataka at level 10-11 and with superb gear... and have a nice bit o' money too.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

When you introduce sandbox elements to an otherwise linear experience I think this kind of stuff is bound to happen, though it's part of the fun I think. To come up with ways to do things out of order and be stronger than the game expects you to be is great fun in my opinion. 

[Gromnir]

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/107044-too-poor-to-sail-about-ship-management-and-upgrades/?p=2120454

 

recent thread which covers many ship combat issues and pov.

 

additional observations: 

 

most basic tactical approach is simple to get into optimal range, hold position and then fire.  jibe and repeat.

 

voyagers will run at first sign o' trouble.  disable their sails with chain shot asap.  is also a tactic for rathun, but they appear to be able to move at a nice clip even with complete disabled sails. 

 

easiest strat is to load dhow with double bronzers, 4 star cannoneers and best hull upgrade.  two double-bronzer volleys with high skill cannoneers will have high % chance to sink any ship in the deadfire.  'course chances are you cannot afford to do such early.

 

alternative early strategy which makes best use o' limited funds:  before any ship combat, save scum at every shipwreck until your sloop has 4 long guns and a spyglass.  low-tier foes will not have the cannons to fight at range.  but again, foes will run away if you have out matched 'em.  disable sails first is worth considering, 'cause is ez for a ship to successfully run away if you are fighting at +500 metres.

 

hold position provides a nice cannon accuracy bonus.  'course hold position will make it easier for foes to hit you. if you got 4 star canonners, you may shoot on the run and maintain high accuracy.  doing such will often result in you always getting first shot, so to speak.  first shot is important as it tends to lead to loose cargo, men overboard, flooding and fires to deck and/or sails.  can often get in a second volley after a jibe before a foe may attack once.

 

biggest difference tween ship combat success and failure is not tactics but strategy, where strategy is simple buying ship upgrades when you are able to afford them. provisio: don't buy any ship more pricey than a dhow as doing so became prohibitive after a build update months past.   dhow with right guns and crew will sink any foe in the deadwater w/o much sweat.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited December 16, 2018 by Gromnir

[Boeroer]

The best way to avoid death by gunshots during boarding fights in my opinion is to use a large shield in the secnd weapon slot and to take Weapon Proficiency Large Shield. At the start of the combat pause and switch to the large shield and activate The Wall. This helps a lot. Not only because the deflection is high but because the incoming damage gets greatly(!) reduced.

 

After the initial volley it's rel. save to switch back and play as you are used to.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Boeroer

[Titus_Draconius]

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/107044-too-poor-to-sail-about-ship-management-and-upgrades/?p=2120454

 

recent thread which covers many ship combat issues and pov.

 

additional observations: 

 

most basic tactical approach is simple to get into optimal range, hold position and then fire.  jibe and repeat.

 

voyagers will run at first sign o' trouble.  disable their sails with chain shot asap.  is also a tactic for rathun, but they appear to be able to move at a nice clip even with complete disabled sails. 

 

easiest strat is to load dhow with double bronzers, 4 star cannoneers and best hull upgrade.  two double-bronzer volleys with high skill cannoneers will have high % chance to sink any ship in the deadfire.  'course chances are you cannot afford to do such early.

 

alternative early strategy which makes best use o' limited funds:  before any ship combat, save scum at every shipwreck until your sloop has 4 long guns and a spyglass.  low-tier foes will not have the cannons to fight at range.  but again, foes will run away if you have out matched 'em.  disable sails first is worth considering, 'cause is ez for a ship to successfully run away if you are fighting at +500 metres.

 

hold position provides a nice cannon accuracy bonus.  'course hold position will make it easier for foes to hit you. if you got 4 star canonners, you may shoot on the run and maintain high accuracy.  doing such will often result in you always getting first shot, so to speak.  first shot is important as it tends to lead to loose cargo, men overboard, flooding and fires to deck and/or sails.  can often get in a second volley after a jibe before a foe may attack once.

 

biggest difference tween ship combat success and failure is not tactics but strategy, where strategy is simple buying ship upgrades when you are able to afford them. provisio: don't buy any ship more pricey than a dhow as doing so became prohibitive after a build update months past.   dhow with right guns and crew will sink any foe in the deadwater w/o much sweat.

 

HA! Good Fun!

I will make sure to try these techniques out, thanks

 

The best way to avoid death by gunshots during boarding fights in my opinion is to use a large shield in the secnd weapon slot and to take Weapon Proficiency Large Shield. At the start of the combat pause and switch to lage shield and activate The Wall. This helps a lot. Not only because the deflection is high but because the incoming damage gets greatly(!) reduced.

 

After the initial volley it's rel. save to switch back and play as you are used to.

This is excellent wisdom, thanks. For my wizard the idea of a shield was sort of anathema in my head but it's time to evolve

[Boeroer]

Just picture him crouching behind that big shield until the gunshots are over, preparing his nasty spell.  

[Climhazzard]

Wizards have some of the best defensive spells in the game, so just make sure to have a few learned and pop them at the start of combat.

[Boeroer]

It's difficult. Usually you can only cast one (if it's a fast cast). Sometimes not even that. There's no auto-pause - so it's very hard to pause right after combat begins. Enemies' AI will start to fire the guns right away.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Boeroer

[Takkik]

They could have give you a few seconds before the combat start. Make the enemies not hostile (and prevent you from getting in their ship during this lap of time) but allow you to move your party around on your ship.

[Boeroer]

That would have been awesome.

[Enoch]

 

 

I still don't understand why they didn't introduced something simple as spawning your characters with your formation.

well...yeah...I mean if the player gets boarded then sure, then there could be an element of chaos I suppose. Even then it should take a while to get boarded I imagine, with the enemy ship getting closer and everybody should see it coming at that point. Honestly I don't know why the formation gets shuffled like that. 

 

am suspecting is a basic ship mechanics or dialogue issue.  after ship dialogues with gods, your formation is changed.  poe had a number o' similar encounters.  skaven under-temple forced dialogue would alter party formation and at least one dragon encounter did similar.  forced formation shift is literal the first thing we complained 'bout when ship boarding were implemented.  no traction.

 

in any event, ship-to-ship combat is actual a bit exploitive. you are able to engage in ship combat as soon as you leave port maje waters and neither the difficulty slider nor the enemy ship level limit your chances o' success.  sub level ten player will be able to reduced named ship captain population o' deadfire waters to zero, resulting in much unique and superb gear becoming available for your lower level character, as well as providing much experience via ship bounties.  do all ship bounties and start nekataka at level 10-11 and with superb gear... and have a nice bit o' money too.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

I'll add a little nuance here, as I'm in the process of doing this now.  "Start Neketaka" isn't quite right, as you need to do the initial circuit of the city first, before you do go after anything tougher than the first-tier bounty targets.  Specifically, you need to enter the city (progressing Veins of Eora main quest), do the shipbuilder's task (to get your 10% discount before buying a new boat), hire any single-skill-having crewmembers (includes going to Periki's to get Worthless Idiot), and go meet the folks who hand out ship bounties for the 3 factions in Neketaka.  Note that the Huana bounty-giver is in the Palace, so you'll have to progress the main plot past the first meeting with the Queen.  You probably also want to do that first Valera task, for the free Sails upgrade.  It's a good idea to recruit, level-up, and equip the Companions and Sidekicks who you can meet along the way, too, just in case the tactics of a particular ship battle lead towards a boarding fight being the best course.  (IMO, melee-type characters are the most useful ones to have the AI driving in ship battles.  So definitely grab Pallegina and Konstanten.  Hold off on Fassina unless you intend to use her in the party-- she's fairly useless in a boarding fight.  Maia is good, too, although only make her a Geomancer if you're going to use her in the active party.  Tekehu & Ydwin are OK-- better than ship crew, but it might be best to not give the RNG the option of selecting them instead of 'Gina, Mirke, etc.) 

 

Once you're ready to go hunting for more than the first-tier Voyager bounties, it's also a good idea to stop in at Dunnage, Sayuka, and Tikawara, just to hire crew.   Get your "permanent" folks who can level up to 4-stars in one job in there as early as possible.  (Also, go get Rekke and Mirke for more boarding-battle beef.)

 

All the while, of course, you're trying to pile up the funds for your ship upgrades, so you're grabbing the low-hanging fruit that pops up along the way.  The investment priority I'm going by is (1) 4 Double Bronzers; (2) Dhow and 2 more Bronzers; (3) Hull upgrade.  If you're building rep with Principi or RDC, note that the cannons might be cheaper at Dunnage or Sayuka (discount can get up to 15%).  (This goes for supplies, too, but the Queen's Berth fishmonger is the only source of bottomless Cuttlefish, and Cuttlefish/Water is the cheapest Morale-neutral provision combination, once you exhaust your sources of free water/fruit.) 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Enoch

[Gromnir]

clarification: don't need to meet queen before receiving huana ship bounties. 

 

enter the palace via second floor door.  you will not face forced dialogue situation unless entering palace via main entrance or by progressing to first floor.  you may thus avoid advancing any quests in nekataka.  worthless idiot is not part o' a quest and will join after a brief convo.  personal, we avoid the velera stuff as the sail doesn't make much difference and after a handful o' bounties you will be able to afford superior sails... or am s'posing you could use a berath's blessing token on stormwind sails.  

 

suggestion: avoid recruiting anybody 'til finished with ship bounties.  as such, we suggest purposeful avoiding the queen meet. xp gains for companions not active in party languishes.  converse, recruited party mates start at whatever level is the watcher when first recruited. the whole point o' Gromnir's approach is to avoid boarding actions.  your party will be sub-level 10 and as such boarding actions will be guaranteed lethal when facing off 'gainst black isle bastards and other such crews... regardless o' who you recruited. 

 

am agreeing it is worth doing the shipbuilder quest for the discount.  

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/104476-the-core-of-the-problem-you-are-a-pirate/?p=2082914

 

the 10% discount is the single quest we typical do 'fore engaging in all-out pirate slaughter. is not necessary, but highly recommended.

 

after finishing ship bounties, your crew will be seasoned and able to retrieve the lightning voulge with little risk. might as well do so.  thus you may also effective start nekataka questing with a soulbound weapon in addition to much superb and unique gear.

 

the only tough choice when considering how to complete a ship bounty run is when to go and get baltia... but such a conundrum is at the extreme end o' the meta spectrum. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps our crew will indeed be consuming cuttlefish henceforth.  nice observation. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Gromnir

[Enoch]

Thanks for that.  I always assumed that the 2nd-level doors to the Palace would be locked, given how you're forced into a "walking in" cutscene when you first enter.  Good to know that you can get to Barati without first going through Onekaza.  And I hadn't thought about this from the perspective of inactive companion XP, which is useful to consider.  (Honestly, I don't recall specifically how that mechanic works, other than that folks hanging out at the ship seem to progress a little more slowly.)

 

Edit:  I guess the other sorta-quandry you'd have, besides Baltia, is whether it's worth doing the small Task at VTC HQ that frees up Luca for the Boatswain spot when you get your Dhow. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Enoch

[Gromnir]

Thanks for that.  I always assumed that the 2nd-level doors to the Palace would be locked, given how you're forced into a "walking in" cutscene when you first enter.  Good to know that you can get to Barati without first going through Onekaza.  And I hadn't thought about this from the perspective of inactive companion XP, which is useful to consider.  (Honestly, I don't recall specifically how that mechanic works, other than that folks hanging out at the ship seem to progress a little more slowly.)

am equal unsure o' the math behind non-active companion xp progression.  however, it is clear those individuals not in active party do indeed suffer some kinda xp handicap.  regardless, the xp issue for inactives is mitigated somewhat by recruiting after completion o' bounties.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[brasilgringo]

Thanks for that.  I always assumed that the 2nd-level doors to the Palace would be locked, given how you're forced into a "walking in" cutscene when you first enter.  Good to know that you can get to Barati without first going through Onekaza.  And I hadn't thought about this from the perspective of inactive companion XP, which is useful to consider.  (Honestly, I don't recall specifically how that mechanic works, other than that folks hanging out at the ship seem to progress a little more slowly.)

 

Edit:  I guess the other sorta-quandry you'd have, besides Baltia, is whether it's worth doing the small Task at VTC HQ that frees up Luca for the Boatswain spot when you get your Dhow. 

Wow, playing since launch and didn't even know this Barati guy existed or gives bounties /facepalm ... living and learning. 

 

I basically though the 2nd floor of the palace was put there just to give you people to kill late game if you're bored.  Always annoyed you have to use it to get down from the Rooftop too -- can't find a way to get from rooftop off the palace map directly. 

[Haplok]

Nice info about the bounties, thank you both Gromnir and Enoch.

 

As for food... I find Water and Hardtack perfectly adequate (and cheap :D).

So the morale goes down? No big deal as long as I sink some ship and solve some story book encounters once in a while. It's easy to keep the morale maxed all the time.

 

after finishing ship bounties, your crew will be seasoned and able to retrieve the lightning voulge with little risk. might as well do so.  thus you may also effective start nekataka questing with a soulbound weapon in addition to much superb and unique gear.

 

A little clarification: the Voulge can be retrieved with little risk directly after Port Maje, prior to doing any bounty quests. At worst I maybe lost a crew member in the storms. Generally not a big deal.

Though now that I think of it, I MIGHT have had the experienced captain blessing.

[Mannock]

voyagers will run at first sign o' trouble.  disable their sails with chain shot asap.  is also a tactic for rathun, but they appear to be able to move at a nice clip even with complete disabled sails.

I figured out that the hard way. Completely blew the sails down to zero of the rathun, but by then I had spent two volleys and then the rathun always close in on me and board me. Then I'm dead meat. So I've just had to stay away from them.

[Gromnir]

 

voyagers will run at first sign o' trouble.  disable their sails with chain shot asap.  is also a tactic for rathun, but they appear to be able to move at a nice clip even with complete disabled sails.

I figured out that the hard way. Completely blew the sails down to zero of the rathun, but by then I had spent two volleys and then the rathun always close in on me and board me. Then I'm dead meat. So I've just had to stay away from them.

 

rathun is a unique opponent.  small crew. well, each individual crewman is large, but is less than a double-handful.  grapeshot does wonders 'cause is all 'bove deck crew unless injured, and they need helmsman 'bove deck no matter what.  pepper 'em with grapeshot over and over and over.  the computer is a bit wonky, so once all sails and crew is disabled, seems you automatic do hull damage.  grapeshot.

 

HA! Good Fun!