How does PoE II Compare to PoE?

[thelee]

^ Oh, I know that... I know that one very well xD. 

 

Still sad to see something like that still around, though. 

 

To be fair to Obsidian, it's also why I hate Survival mode in Fallout 4. Bethesda has a lot of resources, but they are also aren't immune to crash bugs, and survival mode in FO4 literally has no autosave outside of setting up camp. After losing a 3 hour play session to a crash (while I was on the way to a bed to sleep in to save) I ended up modding/hacking the game to turn on autosave without disabling achievements.

 

Game companies just should not develop any features/mode that relies on the assumption that their game is crash proof.

Edited October 27, 2018 by thelee

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

 

^ Oh, I know that... I know that one very well xD. 

 

Still sad to see something like that still around, though. 

 

To be fair to Obsidian, it's also why I hate Survival mode in Fallout 4. Bethesda has a lot of resources, but they are also aren't immune to crash bugs, and survival mode in FO4 literally has no autosave outside of setting up camp. After losing a 3 hour play session to a crash (while I was on the way to a bed to sleep in to save) I ended up modding/hacking the game to turn on autosave without disabling achievements.

 

Game companies just should not develop any features/mode that relies on the assumption that their game is crash proof.

 

 

Was just gonna say that you should look up some mods for that. I played a heavily modded version of Fallout 4 after abandoning it shortly after release for years and years, and I remember that there was something addressing stability in the game. Forgotten what exactly it was, though. I know I had to forego all visual mods and only stick to the 4k textures. 

 

Still... couldn't mod the story and writing. xD 

[Marceror]

 

^ Oh, I know that... I know that one very well xD. 

 

Still sad to see something like that still around, though. 

 

Game companies just should not develop any features/mode that relies on the assumption that their game is crash proof.

 

 

Agreed. I learned this lesson long ago, and have a policy of never playing iron man in any game. But many do not know better, and they set themselves up for frustration and disappointment, not realizing that if something goes wrong with their single game save, all their progress may be lost.

 

If you want ironman, just agree that you won't reload your game, and make plenty of saves for safety. Otherwise you're playing with fire.

[xzar_monty]

I would never trust any CRPG other than NetHack to not crash. And NetHack remains a treasure, even after all these years, by god but it's good. 

[Marceror]

How does one tell what time it is in game? I thought I just had to hover my cursor over the clock in the bottom center of the UI, and it would show the time. But it's not coming up when I do that, so maybe I'm confusing this with another game. Can someone tell me how to tell what time it is?

[Frak]

How does one tell what time it is in game? I thought I just had to hover my cursor over the clock in the bottom center of the UI, and it would show the time. But it's not coming up when I do that, so maybe I'm confusing this with another game. Can someone tell me how to tell what time it is?

It's a new bug. Its supposed to show you the time (did before).

 

Temporary hack: Use the wait (under rest menu) function. It will show you current time plus the rest period. Subtract rest period and you have the time.

[Marceror]

Ahh, I guess it's good to know I'm not losing it. I really remembered being able to do that. Thanks for the workaround suggestion.

 

 

New question - How does one modify spells in a grimoire in PoE II? I'm half inclined to think it's no longer possible.

[algroth]

New question - How does one modify spells in a grimoire in PoE II? I'm half inclined to think it's no longer possible.

 

You can't. In Deadfire grimoires act rather as extensions to your spell repertoire instead.

Edited October 28, 2018 by algroth

[Marceror]

 

New question - How does one modify spells in a grimoire in PoE II? I'm half inclined to think it's no longer possible.

 

You can't. In Deadfire grimoires act rather as extensions to your spell repertoire instead.

 

Thank you for confirming my suspicion. Now I don't have to click around on them like an idiot any longer.

[Marceror]

So I'm still comparing the games, and in order to better do it, I've restarted PF:KM as well. I remember struggling to reach level 5 before fighting the Stag Lord last time I tried, Yet, I just hit level 5 in my new game, and I've only done maybe 50 - 60% of the chapter 1 content. Does that sound like a bug? Or is XP more plentiful now?

 

I'm happy to hear that Owlcat will be moving away from hotfixes in order to provide larger, better tested patches. That renewed my will to give their game another try.

 

The bottom line for me so far, is that both are great games, and we are fortunate to have them added to the CRPG lexicon. I think in some ways I'm leaning toward Pathfinder, but I think that is somewhat because I really miss a more D&D centric game. It's great to see prestige classes, the more flexible multiclassing, and just so much that is familiar. Of course, Obsidian created something really special as well, and certainly, their more stable game gives them an overall edge at this point. I am also amazed at how far they have pushed the visual elements of painted 2D backgrounds. They have really brought their maps to life. Back in the late 90s I don't think I could have imagined such a style evolving so far. 3D really *isn't* everything.

 

I would love to compare PoE II to a much more polished PF:KM, and see how they stack up then. Hopefully we'll all eventually get that chance!

[Marceror]

Uh, correction, I just hit level FOUR. So I'm betting I don't hit level 5 before Stag Lord, or it will happen right around that time.

[bringingyouthefuture]

Hehe, co-op'd the thread to a PF:K comparison to POE2.  Well, just a caveat I really like POE2 so I am definitely biased. 

 

Hmm, combat is better in POE2 - more versatile and smooth which gives you a lot more options plus in general you can really tell (speaking of PoTD) that Obsidian put a lot of thought into crafting encounters and enemies - good to have a comparison I think we were all getting spoiled;

 

POE2 graphics and UI much better, include in this options for playing (ie - respec'ing characters, etc);

 

I haven't gotten far enough in PF:K to compare the two stories yet but my guess is that PF:K is a little more involved and expansive;

 

PF:K has more options for character creation and leveling up which is always fun;

 

So resting in PF:K vs resting in POE2 - not sure what I prefer - I really don't get much from resting in PF:K as it reminds me of a mini-game so I if I would compare it to the ship in POE2 - the ship is better - though that being said POE2 does not have the Kingdom function so not sure what to compare that too -I guess you can compare it to your ship though I am not sure - but both comparisons except for sleep vs sleep might be apples to oranges; 

 

in general I think the scripted interaction and character dialogue in POE2 is better;

 

as for gameplay mechanics like weight load, exhaustion and timer on quests - PF:K did a really good job and I don't mind managing them so I think I would give one up for PF:K here;

 

I enjoy the crafting and weapon enchanting in POE2;

 

I must say quests in PF:K are going to have a hard time knocking out some of the quests in POE2 - like Fort Deadlight / Poko Kaharo / Vallian family feud quest - those were pretty genius but will see haven't gotten far enough in PF:K yet.

 

Both games are great and having a lot of fun with both.  Once I finish both would be fun to revisit this topic.  Not sure what else to compare???

Edited November 2, 2018 by bringingyouthefuture

[thelee]

Hehe, co-op'd the thread to a PF:K comparison to POE2.  Well, just a caveat I really like POE2 so I am definitely biased. 

 

Hmm, combat is better in POE2 - more versatile and smooth which gives you a lot more options plus in general you can really tell (speaking of PoTD) that Obsidian put a lot of thought into crafting encounters and enemies - good to have a comparison I think we were all getting spoiled;

 

graphics and UI much better, include in this options for playing (ie - respec'ing characters, etc);

 

I haven't gotten far enough in PF:K to compare the two stories yet but my guess is that PF:K is a little more involved and expansive;

 

PF:K has more options for character creation and leveling up which is always fun;

 

So resting in PF:K vs resting in POE2 - not sure what I prefer - I really don't get much from resting in PF:K as it reminds me of a mini-game so I if I would compare it to the ship in POE2 - the ship is better - though that being said POE2 does not have the Kingdom function so not sure what to compare that too -I guess you can compare it to your ship though I am not sure - but both comparisons except for sleep vs sleep might be apples to oranges; 

 

in general I think the scripted interaction and character dialogue in POE2 is better;

 

as for gameplay mechanics like weight load, exhaustion and timer on quests - PF:K did a really good job and I don't mind managing them so I think I would give one up for PF:K here;

 

I enjoy the crafting and weapon enchanting in POE2;

 

I must say quests in PF:K are going to have a hard time knocking out some of the quests in POE2 - like Fort Deadlight / Poko Kaharo / Vallian family feud quest - those were pretty genius but will see haven't gotten far enough in PF:K yet.

 

Both games are great and having a lot of fun with both.  Once I finish both would be fun to revisit this topic.  Not sure what else to compare???

 

I haven't followed PF:K any, but is it like an infinity engine game? Because I know Pathfinder is similar to D&D in that it's based around turns, so I'm wondering if they would still maintain the IE-style abstraction of "6 second rounds" or something similar. If not, I'd be curious to know how they approach it.

 

IMO one of the best things that Deadfire and PoE did was move away from that weird abstraction and be more of a computer game. While there's something to be said about that "turn-based" abstraction, I like it when a game system does things that its particular medium can excel at, instead of necessarily being beholden to things that don't make sense for it. (For similar reasons I like that in the early drafts of the pen and paper pillars of eternity system, JE Sawyer is creating a pretty wildly different system, albeit with roots in pillars.)

Edited November 2, 2018 by thelee

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Recovery is just such an abstraction, no?

[Marceror]

 

I haven't followed PF:K any, but is it like an infinity engine game? Because I know Pathfinder is similar to D&D in that it's based around turns, so I'm wondering if they would still maintain the IE-style abstraction of "6 second rounds" or something similar. If not, I'd be curious to know how they approach it.

 

Yes, this is a lot like an Infinity Engine game, arguably more so than PoE is. You do have 6 second rounds, and the developers have tried hard to code the table top rules into the game (perhaps too hard?).

 

Other than some instability, which has received around 15 hot fixes in a month or so!, it's a great game.

[Marceror]

Hehe, co-op'd the thread to a PF:K comparison to POE2.

 

That has always been the primary point of this thread, actually. Just look at the thread title.

[bringingyouthefuture]

 

Hehe, co-op'd the thread to a PF:K comparison to POE2.

 

That has always been the primary point of this thread, actually. Just look at the thread title.

 

 

Hmm ... am I missing the irony?

[Marceror]

 

 

Hehe, co-op'd the thread to a PF:K comparison to POE2.

 

That has always been the primary point of this thread, actually. Just look at the thread title.

 

 

Hmm ... am I missing the irony?

 

It sounds like you are saying I co opted this thread to be a comparison of PoE to PF:KM, as if the thread originally had some other purpose. Otherwise I don't understand your use of "co opt (or co-op'd as you wrote it). So I don't think you are missing any irony as much as I seem to be missing your point.

[Gfted1]

Thread title: "How does PoE II Compare to PoE?" That seems like the original pupose.

 

I guess I dont get it either.

[bringingyouthefuture]

 

 

 

Hehe, co-op'd the thread to a PF:K comparison to POE2.

 

That has always been the primary point of this thread, actually. Just look at the thread title.

 

 

Hmm ... am I missing the irony?

 

It sounds like you are saying I co opted this thread to be a comparison of PoE to PF:KM, as if the thread originally had some other purpose. Otherwise I don't understand your use of "co opt (or co-op'd as you wrote it). So I don't think you are missing any irony as much as I seem to be missing your point.

 

 

Oh shoot totally sorry didn't mean it as a negative, was actually pretty excited to discuss the topic, sorry didn't mean it to come off the wrong way   I mean it is just a forum thread, and your thread!!!

 

Edit: was making a pun on video games with co-op'd ... what's that rule in the web where no one knows your are being sarcastic etc etc

Edited November 2, 2018 by bringingyouthefuture

[thelee]

Recovery is just such an abstraction, no?

 

Only in the most vague sense.

 

In infinity engine land:

•  everyone is on a fixed, 6s round. Even if your characters are standing there, animating with attacks, by default they only get 1 attack that entire round (most of the attacks are just for show). Even though the "speed" of a dagger might be 1 compared to the "speed" of a two-handed sword being like 9 or something, all that means is that the person with the daggers makes their first attack after a .6s delay, and the person with the two-handed sword has to wait 5.4s. After that initial attack, both characters wait a full 6s in between each attack roll.
• you can only do one spell-like action per round. this means casting a spell, but also includes drinking potions. oh, your wizard just drank a potion of minor healing? now they have to wait until their next "round" to cast a spell
• not to mention weird interactions with the fact that the round abstraction treated attacks and spell-likes differently ("cast and attack" is a popular thing from BG2 forums and sites of yore)
• all durations have to be in increments of at least per round

In pillars recovery land

• different weapon speeds means actually being able to attack more or less often
• no per-round limitation means you can cast spell as fast as your recovery allows
• no weird conflict between using items and casting spells with awkward indeterminate timing
• flexible durations for effects

 

while you can try to draw a similarity between the "personal initiative round" of infinity engine games and recovery mechanics in pillars, recovery mechanics are extremely flexible whereas IE rounds are a fixed 6s unit of time (with the sole exception of improved alacrity).

Edited November 2, 2018 by thelee

[Marceror]

 

 

 

 

Hehe, co-op'd the thread to a PF:K comparison to POE2.

 

That has always been the primary point of this thread, actually. Just look at the thread title.

 

 

Hmm ... am I missing the irony?

 

It sounds like you are saying I co opted this thread to be a comparison of PoE to PF:KM, as if the thread originally had some other purpose. Otherwise I don't understand your use of "co opt (or co-op'd as you wrote it). So I don't think you are missing any irony as much as I seem to be missing your point.

 

 

Oh shoot totally sorry didn't mean it as a negative, was actually pretty excited to discuss the topic, sorry didn't mean it to come off the wrong way   I mean it is just a forum thread, and your thread!!!

 

Edit: was making a pun on video games with co-op'd ... what's that rule in the web where no one knows your are being sarcastic etc etc

 

It didn't come off as a negative, and you certainly don't have anything to apologize for.

 

It was more of a situation where someone goes to McDonald's and thinks they are going to surprise everyone by ordering a hamburger. That's not surprising. That's exactly what you expect someone to do when they are at McDonald's. It was just a tad odd. Otherwise, I appreciated your post!

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

In infinity engine land:

•  everyone is on a fixed, 6s round. Even if your characters are standing there, animating with attacks, by default they only get 1 attack that entire round (most of the attacks are just for show). Even though the "speed" of a dagger might be 1 compared to the "speed" of a two-handed sword being like 9 or something, all that means is that the person with the daggers makes their first attack after a .6s delay, and the person with the two-handed sword has to wait 5.4s. After that initial attack, both characters wait a full 6s in between each attack roll.
• you can only do one spell-like action per round. this means casting a spell, but also includes drinking potions. oh, your wizard just drank a potion of minor healing? now they have to wait until their next "round" to cast a spell
• not to mention weird interactions with the fact that the round abstraction treated attacks and spell-likes differently ("cast and attack" is a popular thing from BG2 forums and sites of yore)
• all durations have to be in increments of at least per round

In pillars recovery land

• different weapon speeds means actually being able to attack more or less often
• no per-round limitation means you can cast spell as fast as your recovery allows
• no weird conflict between using items and casting spells with awkward indeterminate timing
• flexible durations for effects

while you can try to draw a similarity between the "personal initiative round" of infinity engine games and recovery mechanics in pillars, recovery mechanics are extremely flexible whereas IE rounds are a fixed 6s unit of time (with the sole exception of improved alacrity).

 

This will derail the topic from what should be discussed, but I will share my thoughts with you, regardless. 

 

Recovery, particularly in Deadfire, is no less an arbitrary abstraction than it is in the earlier Infinities. You may favour one over the other because of what you already described, but that was not what I was talking about to begin with. I am not arguing about that at all, actually. Some actions, like a needless closing of a spell book after a spell cast(essentially a stun effect on your mage), are there for nothing else than a balancing factor, one that was necessitated by the community-the opinion that casters are too strong, no less. You're given some control over Recovery, and because of that I believe people would end up favouring that system over the older one, but we do lose some very interesting spell effects that were balanced around the idea of 'one per round.' Also, and interestingly so, two handed attacks attacks were a lot more meaningful but balanced in similar fashion. I just don't see how one is less abstract/arbitrary than the other  .

 

Why not have no Recovery at all?

 

It is a single player game after all. 

 

PS: random banter about PoE to appease the Moderator Gods. 

[bringingyouthefuture]

I thought of one more difference between the two:

 

-random enemy encounters on the overland map - this is a staple of old RPGs vs the mini-quests in POE2 - both allow you to get that extra experience or a level when you need it < this is a tough one for me but I think Pathfinder so far found a good balance where I think POE2 made experience gain a little too accessible with the point A to point B quests.  I mean you need the option to get a level but would rather fight for it

Edited November 2, 2018 by bringingyouthefuture

[Marceror]

One thing that PF:KM sorely lacks is a page to summarize character accomplishments. PoE is great in this regard, where you know how many kills each character has earned, how much damage they've dished out, largest single damage amount, etc.

 

There's nothing at all along these lines tracked in PF.