TV's Vast Wasteland

[Amentep]

[kanisatha]

I was commenting on the actress playing Dinah and the charcter as she plays it and not really on the character per se, because I know these characters from the DC universe only from these shows (now down to just Arrow since I got really tired of the other shows). I never read any of the DC comics because I found their heroes all to be not particularly interesting and rather lame with the sole exception of Batman. I'm totally a Marvel universe person.

[algroth]

Man, DC is so desperate to be MCU at this point.

[injurai]

That looks awful, hopefully it transfers wealth from ****ty producers down to starving production crews.

[SonicMage117]

Man, DC is so desperate to be MCU at this point.

What do you mean? DC aren't the ones cancelling their shows left and right. At least they have direction.

[Zoraptor]

Man, DC is so desperate to be MCU at this point.

 

In movies, sure. On TV, nah. The 'universe' part of MCU has been great for the movies but pretty close to actively terrible for TV since TV is seen so much as a secondary medium. DC's approach of letting the shows do their own thing and link as much or as little as they like is far better for TV. The only really bad thing about DC's approach to TV is being arbitrary about who and what can be used due to whatever movies they're planning as if people couldn't tell TV Deathstroke or Deadshot plus multiple others apart from the movie versions.

 

Movie wise DC is a mess, that they have two Joker movies with different actors in production at the same time just about sums things up there perfectly.

 

But in terms of successful adult orientated TV shows Marvel is miles behind, albeit in part due to the, heh, meta issue of the Disney vs Netflix stoush.

 

That looks awful, hopefully it transfers wealth from ****ty producers down to starving production crews.

 

Titans' (DC made/ US/ original) trailer was not great either. The international Netflix trailer and the actual series though were good. Personally I think Doom Patrol is inherently a bit of an odd choice, but I'll give it a chance. Plus, it has Tim Dalton.

[ShadySands]

Different Cyborg actor from Justice League and Cyborg?

 

It's a TV show? I guess that explains it. I don't like that about DC tbh

Edited February 9, 2019 by ShadySands

[SonicMage117]

Titans' (DC made/ US/ original) trailer was not great either. The international Netflix trailer and the actual series though were good. Personally I think Doom Patrol is inherently a bit of an odd choice, but I'll give it a chance. Plus, it has Tim Dalton.

I remember that.....

 

Everyone was laughing at 3 things:

1. Starfire being black sporting a fur coat

2. BeastBoy only turning into a tiger

3. Cyborg wasn't even there

 

^I suspect all those people weren't even conic fans but only knew the Teen Titans from the cartoons. Anyway, fast forward and what happened when the first episode released? Those people wrote an apology and fell in love with the show.

 

 

All that aside though,

I don't mind a trailer that makes a good product look like sh** and surprises me later as opposed to a good trailer that makes a sh** product look like gold which would disappoint me later. Meh.

 

 

 

As far as the Doom Patrol show goes, I expect it to be cheese and I'll be happy with that. I want it to be a comedy sitcom type hero show, very reminiscent of the "Doom Patrol" episode in Titans (which introduced them). I don't expect it to be anything like Titans, really. And I hope it isn't. I'm pretty sure I know the vibe they're going for just by that one Titans episode.

 

If anything the Marvel shows all suffered from having the "samey" syndrome and that never flowed all too well. Punisher, Daredevil, Luke Cage, etc. And then their crossovers were very unintact (Defenders, I'm looking at you... *yawns*) where the Arrowverse is so diverse that it always just works well and has great chemistry - even if we don't necessarily like the characters.

 

There is a reason why Marvel movies are doing better than DC's and DC's live action shows and cartoons are wiping the floor with Marvel. I won't get it twisted

Edited February 9, 2019 by SonicMage117

[Zoraptor]

My main problem with the DC trailer for Titans (apart from the song and to an extent the pacing) was that the 'f___ Batman' line gave the impression it would be stupidly edgy for the sake of it rather than being mature in the more positive sense. The Netflix trailer fixed those issues. Then again I'd never paid the slightest attention to (Teen) Titans beforehand so didn't know/ care if anyone had been left out etc.

[ShadySands]

Man, I really hate the Klingon ship design in Discovery.

[majestic]

Speaking of Discovery, they're still not fact checking their Treknobabble when it is based on real life scientific concepts. Sure, build an impromptu lightning rod to dissipate a charge of hundreds of GeV. Nevermind that an electronvolt isn't a unit of measurement for the electrical charge and even if tit was, hundreds of billions of electronvolts would still be ridiculously small.

 

And they fight a computer virus by developing digital antibodies.

 

 

And we finally know now why the spore drive is never heard from again in any of the other shows. Apparently it causes global warming for the mycelial network creatures that like Tilly so much.

 

 

The episode tried to be Star Trek and it felt off. There's something - perhaps inherently - wrong with taking a concept that would have fit nicely into The Next Generation and overlay it with this need for frantic action that permeates all of Nu Trek. It's almost Bayesque at this point. Cut, spark, action, lightning rod, useless Treknobabble, omg suspense someone's in danger, cut, cut, cut, RED ALTERT, cut, cut, stupid jokes about Saurian colds, cut, cut, cut, Tilly babble, cut cut, OH DO YOU REMEMBER DAVID BOWIE'S SPACE ODDITY? cut cut sparks cut explosion cut cut cut cut WE FAIL TO TRACK SPOCK IN 6 MINUTES PEOPLE cut cut OMG SUSPENSE cut cut cut sparks cut LET'S DRILL A HOLE IN SOMEONE'S SKULL WITH A STUPID DRILL, cut, cut, AAAACTION BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM.

 

Set to the theme of an episode that's about learning to communicate and interpret the intentions of something alien in both the A and one of the B plots. And yes, this is pretty much hyperbole. It also doesn't help that the entire dialogue is ridiculous. I can't recall a Trek episode that made me facepalm this much just by having people talk to each other, and that includes an episode of Enterprise where Trip gets pregnant by fondling crystals with an alien girl.

 

"I had a cold last week. It sucked!" Yeah, what are you, five years old? Do you need mommy to help blow your nose?

 

There's one good thing about this episode, it showed that Sonequa Martin-Green is a good actress. Her scenes with Saru were the high point of the episode, but they were in service of

 

 

Saru going through Kelpian puberty. Saru overcoming his fearful nature could have been a nice plot point spread across the entire season by making it real character growth. Instead it's a physical change he's going through. Now he feels powerful and has no more fear. Well, that's awesome. And such a disappointing short cut. Character growth is not character growth when it's literal.

 

 

I guess that's what you'll get if you let a writer from Desperate Housewives come up with a story and have the writer of story driven films like Resident Evil and Tekken adapt it into a screenplay.

 

And the episode title spoils the A-plot unless you know nothing about Greek mythology.

Edited February 9, 2019 by majestic

[SonicMage117]

My main problem with the DC trailer for Titans (apart from the song and to an extent the pacing) was that the 'f___ Batman' line gave the impression it would be stupidly edgy for the sake of it rather than being mature in the more positive sense.

Yeah, I could see that. I guess they wanted to try hard at making Grayson seem more badazz than Batman.

Man, I really hate the Klingon ship design in Discovery.

I haven't kept up with Discovery enough to know but I just looked them up and all I could say is "Wtf were they thiking?"

 

I mean, I understand that they wanted to make them appear more alien but they're so ugly just like the 2009 ones. The classic warbird was an amazing beauty, they need to bring it back

[algroth]

 

Man, DC is so desperate to be MCU at this point.

 

In movies, sure. On TV, nah. The 'universe' part of MCU has been great for the movies but pretty close to actively terrible for TV since TV is seen so much as a secondary medium. DC's approach of letting the shows do their own thing and link as much or as little as they like is far better for TV. The only really bad thing about DC's approach to TV is being arbitrary about who and what can be used due to whatever movies they're planning as if people couldn't tell TV Deathstroke or Deadshot plus multiple others apart from the movie versions.

 

Movie wise DC is a mess, that they have two Joker movies with different actors in production at the same time just about sums things up there perfectly.

 

But in terms of successful adult orientated TV shows Marvel is miles behind, albeit in part due to the, heh, meta issue of the Disney vs Netflix stoush.

 

 

I feel the above trailer's trying too hard to be like the MCU *films*, with some Deadpool thrown in for good measure, moreso than the MCU series - but even you've pointed out the obvious parallelisms to Daredevil in some of the DC series' latest outings. In terms of who's behind, I'm right now seeing Daredevil as the superhero series to beat and nothing I've seen from DC comes close to that, or even some of the other better Defenders offerings like Luke Cage or The Punisher.

[Maedhros]

 

Man, DC is so desperate to be MCU at this point.

 

In movies, sure. On TV, nah. The 'universe' part of MCU has been great for the movies but pretty close to actively terrible for TV since TV is seen so much as a secondary medium. DC's approach of letting the shows do their own thing and link as much or as little as they like is far better for TV. The only really bad thing about DC's approach to TV is being arbitrary about who and what can be used due to whatever movies they're planning as if people couldn't tell TV Deathstroke or Deadshot plus multiple others apart from the movie versions.

 

Movie wise DC is a mess, that they have two Joker movies with different actors in production at the same time just about sums things up there perfectly.

 

But in terms of successful adult orientated TV shows Marvel is miles behind, albeit in part due to the, heh, meta issue of the Disney vs Netflix stoush.

 

That looks awful, hopefully it transfers wealth from ****ty producers down to starving production crews.

 

Titans' (DC made/ US/ original) trailer was not great either. The international Netflix trailer and the actual series though were good. Personally I think Doom Patrol is inherently a bit of an odd choice, but I'll give it a chance. Plus, it has Tim Dalton.

 

 

What DC shows qualify as "succesful adult oriented tv"? Genuinly curious, because I haven't liked any of the ones I've tried the last 10 years or so (Arrow, Gotham City, Legends of Tomorrow, and Flash). Not too up to date on what they've been doing lately, but I generally just have an impression of newer DC tv as very unmodern, with Smallville still reigning as their best effort in the 21st century.

 

I've been far more impressed with Marvel shows like Daredevil, Jessica Jones (s1), The Punisher (s1) and Legion.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Thingolfin

[LadyCrimson]

BBC's recent "ABC Murders" starring John Malkovich (via Amazon Prime). 3 episodes.

 

Filmed in an often rather surreal/gloomy fashion, with some interesting and/or beautiful location shots at times, it's pretty decent. I have still never read an Agatha Christie mystery, only seen a few older movies that I barely remember, so can't say if it "feels" right in that sense. The mystery plot works tho and the actors are all fine, so I found it entertaining (albeit gloomy, like I said). It took me a while to realize the main cop lead was the redhead from the Potter films, lol.

[Gfted1]

Wait, Beastboy can only shapeshift into a tiger now?

[Bartimaeus]

BBC's recent "ABC Murders" starring John Malkovich (via Amazon Prime). 3 episodes.

 

Filmed in an often rather surreal/gloomy fashion, with some interesting and/or beautiful location shots at times, it's pretty decent. I have still never read an Agatha Christie mystery, only seen a few older movies that I barely remember, so can't say if it "feels" right in that sense. The mystery plot works tho and the actors are all fine, so I found it entertaining (albeit gloomy, like I said). It took me a while to realize the main cop lead was the redhead from the Potter films, lol.

Same - I'm usually pretty good at recognizing faces, and I had to seriously look at him for a while to realize it was him. He looks...uh...different these days.

[Zoraptor]

 

I feel the above trailer's trying too hard to be like the MCU *films*, with some Deadpool thrown in for good measure, moreso than the MCU series - but even you've pointed out the obvious parallelisms to Daredevil in some of the DC series' latest outings. In terms of who's behind, I'm right now seeing Daredevil as the superhero series to beat and nothing I've seen from DC comes close to that, or even some of the other better Defenders offerings like Luke Cage or The Punisher.

 

 

Yeah, Daredevil quality wise was great, but it was cancelled at least ostensibly due to not being successful enough- ie being too expensive for the subscribers/ views it got. You also have to take the whole lot of Marvel shows into account rather than just one title. As for the Titans trailer being too movie MCU, I didn't get that at all- it was meant to showcase an ensemble and be sort of grimdark, but I don't really associate ensemble (solely) or grimdark with MCU. If anything it was like a Legends of Tomorrow trailer if that were a grimdark show with no fun allowed.

 

What DC shows qualify as "succesful adult oriented tv"? Genuinly curious, because I haven't liked any of the ones I've tried the last 10 years or so (Arrow, Gotham City, Legends of Tomorrow, and Flash).

 

 

All the CW DC shows do ludicrously well streaming and internationally and even Gotham does decently there, plus Titans has done well too- in the end that's why there are so many of them with more coming. You can argue the quality of them, but not their success. The non Netflix Marvel adult orientated TV portfolio is not exactly packed with runaway, heh, success and it would be positively inhuman to make people sit through some of their efforts. AoS is fine but it's only about as successful as Gotham, Agent Carter I liked, but IIRC it was literally the lowest rated show on the big 4 when showing.

 

In the end though the only objective way to judge success is longevity of the series. Since Arrow debuted there have been 14 DC TV series in total with 52 seasons between them, 2 have been cancelled (Constantine and Powerless) under 5 seasons; with iZombie and Gotham to finish after their S5s, to be fair, but a 5 season show is at least fairly successful. Over the same time frame there have been 12* Marvel shows covering 25 seasons, only one has made 5 seasons and 6 have been cancelled, with Punisher and JJ probably to be added. Also, subjective as it may be, I haven't even heard of 'The Gifted' or 'Cloak and Dagger' which are ongoing despite being pretty well informed, and I've barely seen anyone discuss Runaways either.

 

*Legion is excluded if we're talking MCU, since it's the one (?) Marvel TV show that isn't MCU. It's also, sadly, cancelled after s3 due to ratings. Artistically, it's very good but it's a failure commercially and I'd argue that S2 was just too esoteric for its own good.

 

Wait, Beastboy can only shapeshift into a tiger now?

 

IIRC he said in series that he can transform into other things- but frankly, CGI budget. Even just with the Tiger it's a bit hmm in terms of animation and integration into the scenes.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Zoraptor

[SonicMage117]

What DC shows qualify as "succesful adult oriented tv"? Genuinly curious, because I haven't liked any of the ones I've tried the last 10 years or so (Arrow, Gotham City, Legends of Tomorrow, and Flash). Not too up to date on what they've been doing lately, but I generally just have an impression of newer DC tv as very unmodern, with Smallville still reigning as their best effort in the 21st century.

 

I've been far more impressed with Marvel shows like Daredevil, Jessica Jones (s1), The Punisher (s1) and Legion.

Gotham and Titans are more more adult oriented then any Marvel show ir movie that has ever been.

 

Unless you consider things like prostitutes not having public sex in Gotham's alleys as less adult-oriented or killing of children in an orphanage as nothimg to be concerned about. Most people forget how mature DC really is compared to Marvel when comparing on a bias standpoint but there's a difference in Marvel just giving viewers a general idea to support a hero's cause and DC actually having the detailed imagery to support along with the darker humor that Marvel never possessed - even with Deadpool or Lobo at the forefront.

Edited February 9, 2019 by SonicMage117

[InsaneCommander]

The Marvel Netflix shows are pretty good, mostly, but they do have a bigger budget. So I can appreciate what is done in other cases like the Arrowverse and Shield(?). But with Disney's streaming service, there is no excuse to keep Marvel shows independent from the movies. They should do things like Spiderman and Daredevil vs. Kingpin, Luke Cage meeting Black Panther, etc. Not that I'm very confident it will happen.

[SonicMage117]

That would have been awesome. Sounds like a live action Ultimate Spider-Man universe, that was an awesome cartoon. Loved seeing Spiderman as a team leader with Luke Cage, Iron Fist and all those cool crazy peeps in that cartoon. I'd kill for a live action Spidey show.

[algroth]

 

 

I feel the above trailer's trying too hard to be like the MCU *films*, with some Deadpool thrown in for good measure, moreso than the MCU series - but even you've pointed out the obvious parallelisms to Daredevil in some of the DC series' latest outings. In terms of who's behind, I'm right now seeing Daredevil as the superhero series to beat and nothing I've seen from DC comes close to that, or even some of the other better Defenders offerings like Luke Cage or The Punisher.

 

 

Yeah, Daredevil quality wise was great, but it was cancelled at least ostensibly due to not being successful enough- ie being too expensive for the subscribers/ views it got. You also have to take the whole lot of Marvel shows into account rather than just one title. As for the Titans trailer being too movie MCU, I didn't get that at all- it was meant to showcase an ensemble and be sort of grimdark, but I don't really associate ensemble (solely) or grimdark with MCU. If anything it was like a Legends of Tomorrow trailer if that were a grimdark show with no fun allowed.

 

 

I thought it was cancelled because of the Disney/Netflix debacle, not due to viewership or lack thereof. Far as I've seen it's the only superhero show in the last ten or fifteen years that's broken through the comic book series niche into a wider audience appeal. Regarding the trailer in question, I was talking about the Doom Patrol one, not Titans.

[Zoraptor]

Officially, Daredevil was not cancelled for any external factors, it was cancelled for not being successful (enough).

 

Unofficially Disney+ must have had an influence at least, but there were also some other intrinsic issues that were known about before hand like Netflix wanting 10ep seasons and Marvel not budging on 13, and the shows were fundamentally very expensive to make. It also seems likely that cancelling the poorly performing shows would make the better performing ones less economic rather than more. My personal opinion is that Daredevil would have continued if Marvel had been flexible but that some cancellations were absolutely inevitable whatever that situation. And whatever else, Daredevil was one show, every other Netflix Marvel property was regarded as at least a tier lower.

[SonicMage117]

I'm pretty sure that Disney already confirmed on their twitter that the new streaming service would NOT be picking up any of the canceled Netflix/Hulu shows

 

Yeah, I remember now. I had a source but I'm too tired to look for it. It's somewhere out there, buried beneath the ashes of watchers denials.

 

Take this instead...

https://screenrant.com/netflixs-marvel-shows-arent-moving-disney-plus/

 

 

Edit: So according to the report, they wouldn't be able to go on Disney+ Service for legal reasons but that doesn't mean they can't do some crazy Marvel Ultimate Alliance show with those characters or something later? One can always hope!

Edited February 10, 2019 by SonicMage117

[injurai]